Starky Smurf Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Wasn't Robert at White Harbor with Davos and Wyman? Or am I mixed up? I guess it could make sense that (whichever) Glover is was a White Harbor had time to get to Winterfell ahead of the Boltons, or to simply blend in with Manderly's men on their march to Winterfell for the wedding. But I truly think that Glover will play a role with the Davos / Rickon storyline, since Wyman, presumably the only other one that knows about it, is stuck in Winterfell where he may not survive.ahhh yeah, very duhhhh of me not to remember the Glover at White Harbor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argilac Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 This has probably been brought up, but I was thinking about Theon's apparent blackouts...is it possible he's being warged by Bran? I had assumed the blackouts were the result of his traumatic experiences, but what if they aren't? Bran might reach out to Theon to see what happened to him after Ramsay's arrival in ACoK, find that he's at Winterfell, and intermittently warg back into him to check up on the situation at Winterfell.Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tearloch Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 This has probably been brought up, but I was thinking about Theon's apparent blackouts...is it possible he's being warged by Bran? I had assumed the blackouts were the result of his traumatic experiences, but what if they aren't? Bran might reach out to Theon to see what happened to him after Ramsay's arrival in ACoK, find that he's at Winterfell, and intermittently warg back into him to check up on the situation at Winterfell. Thoughts? Interesting idea...Bran's character was pretty quite in ADWD...We know he wargs into Hodor...based on Ayra warging into her direwolf despite the great distant (although she has no idea what is going on) takes the distance out of the question. Wasn't there a seen in the later chapters where something wierd happened to Theon in the godswood at Winterfell when looking at the heart tree? And Theon's mind is broken, which would seem to make it easier for a warg to get in his head... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakman Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 --It may well be the Blackfish - how he speaks to Theon is pretty close to how he spoke with Jaime at Riverrun, and he would know Theon as Theon, and be able to make a comment about how far he had fallen. The problem, of course, is whether he has time to get from Riverrun to Winterfell. But that's easily wanded away. Anyhoo, Arya is the only Tully that he's in a position to save, so why not go murder some Freys up North, where 5,000 men aren't looking for him? --I don't think that it is someone peripheral to the narrative and lacking in awesome like a Glover or Hallis. The killer has to a) know Theon, B) have awesomeness I don't think that it's Harlin (or whatever the Northman with the BwB's name is) since he seemed to be Stoneheart's translator, and would probably have slit Theon's throat in the snow when they passed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tearloch Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Blackfish does have awesomeness....and I am really liking the idea of this being where he ended up. I think he still needs an assist from somewhere, to get past Moat Cailin....with Howland Reed probably being that link. Like I said before, its entirely possible that Blackfish, or whoever this guy is, fell in with either the Boltons as they left Moat Cailin, or with the Manderlys as they marched to Winterfell....who on earth up there would be looking for him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argilac Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 The recognition factor is a problem for me, though. Remember, Asha barely recognizes her brother. Would the Blackfish recognize Theon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starky Smurf Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 --I don't think that it is someone peripheral to the narrative and lacking in awesome like a Glover or Hallis. I assume Glover would know Theon. Being one of Ned Starks underlords, he would likely have met Theon at Winterfell on occasion in happier times. Lacking in awesome? Perhaps this is the perfect time to show his mettle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakman Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 The recognition factor is a problem for me, though. Remember, Asha barely recognizes her brother. Would the Blackfish recognize Theon?Yes. They were together at Riverrun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starky Smurf Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 The recognition factor is a problem for me, though. Remember, Asha barely recognizes her brother. Would the Blackfish recognize Theon?Yeah, can we assume the Blackfish has even met Theon before? I can't recall this being discussed in the books (that is, if it was ever stated the Blackfish was ever at Winterfell). I mean, we can assume he may have, but it would help the argument if we could establish it for a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starky Smurf Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Yes. They were together at Riverrun.D'OH! OF COURSE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotweaselsoup Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Blackfish does have awesomeness....and I am really liking the idea of this being where he ended up. I think he still needs an assist from somewhere, to get past Moat Cailin....with Howland Reed probably being that link. Like I said before, its entirely possible that Blackfish, or whoever this guy is, fell in with either the Boltons as they left Moat Cailin, or with the Manderlys as they marched to Winterfell....who on earth up there would be looking for him? Those 40 wagons stuffed with food that Manderly brought along with him for some reason triggered my Trojan Horse radar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merchantkingpriest Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 The recognition factor is a problem for me, though. Remember, Asha barely recognizes her brother. Would the Blackfish recognize Theon? Presumably the hooded man didn't just show up at Winterfell and had been there the whole time. If this is the case he would have seen Theon identify himself at the wedding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starky Smurf Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Those 40 wagons stuffed with food that Manderly brought along with him for some reason triggered my Trojan Horse radar.For certain. What I'm now thinking about is, of all the main candidates put forward, which one would most likely be able to pass unnoticed by all due to lack of familiarity with the Bolton/Frey host at Winterfell? I'd have to say Davos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tearloch Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Presumably the hooded man didn't just show up at Winterfell and had been there the whole time. If this is the case he would have seen Theon identify himself at the wedding. Or just being around Winterfell during the Bolton occupation would be enough. Everyone knows who Reek is.... But I do go back to the notion that if it is Blackfish, for Hollis (or someother Northerner), they would have to have some outside knowledge that Reek (aka Theon) did NOT kill the Stark boys, and did not put Winterfell to the sword. Without that knowledge, I would think the Hooded Man would have taken out Theon at some point. No, the Hooded Man knows the Boltons were responsible for it all....and what better way to know this than via one of Ned's closest friends, the yet unseen Howland Reed, who probably has some kind of green seeing powers of his own. Either that or the hooded man is some unknown survivor of the sack of Winterfell, but that seems unlikely in the introduction of yet another new character. Blackfish came to Robb with Catelyn, so he served right along side Theon for quite a while, since they were both trusted advisor's to Robb. And I also think that Blackfish would be somewhat simpathetic to Theon, based on Blackfish's story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tearloch Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 For certain. What I'm now thinking about is, of all the main candidates put forward, which one would most likely be able to pass unnoticed by all due to lack of familiarity with the Bolton/Frey host at Winterfell? I'd have to say Davos. I still don't buy the Davos link. He was sent on a mission by Stannis....to get Manderly on his side. To do that, he needs to retrieve Rickon from Skagos. If you consider the timeline from White Harbor until where the book ends (or the hooded man appears), I don't think there is enough time for Davos to accomplish that mission. And even if he had, what purpose does he serve in Winterfell? He is a smuggler, not a warrior. If he was there, he would be seeking Manderly, not offing Boltons in the dark. And he would also be inclined to run back to Stannis. And it leaves the question "Where is Rickon while he is trying to take on the Boltons on his own?" It doesn't make sense based on the Davos character that has been developed, and also since his mission on Skagos is not just "got pick him up at this location." There is alot of leg work on Skagos to find Rickon, and safely sneak him off. As far as hiding from the Freys / Boltons, that is fairly simple. Fall in with the foot soldiers. Bolton's men were not around Blackfish long, if at all. I don't remember the specific timing of Blackfish's arrival to Robb, and Bolton's ruse attack on the Lannisters. But the foot soldiers may have gotten a short glimpse at the man, but not enough to recognize him again. Now some of the top Freys / Boltons may recognize him, but I doubt they pay much attention to the lowly foot soldiers...why would a lord or a high man look in the face of an underling? Blackfish....that is my final answer, Regis! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starky Smurf Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 And even if he had, what purpose does he serve in Winterfell? He is a smuggler, not a warrior. If he was there, he would be seeking Manderly, not offing Boltons in the dark. Who said he's offing Boltons? The spearwives were doing that, and conventional wisdom is that it was Big Walder who killed Little Walder. I agree that it's not the ideal situation to put Davos into, him being a smuggler and not a fighter...I dunno, something just doesn't sit right with me in thinking that either Blackfish or Davos are the hooded man...i really don't know what to think, TBH. I think i may be coming around to believing (or at least wanting to believe) it's Benjen. Good points re: avoiding getting recognized, BTW - I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tearloch Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Here are my odds for who the Hooded Man really is:Blackfish 2:1BenJen 3:1Hollis 5:1Howland Reed 50:1Davos 100:1 I think my best theory is the Blackfish, aided by Howland Reed, bypassed Moat Cailin and made it to Winterfell (several options...there before Bolton got there, hiding in the crypts, fell in with Bolton's men, or fell in with Manderly's men). Howland Reed is nearby, with Hollis and Ned's remains, waiting (or maybe still in the Crag). Davos is still on Skagos looking for Rickon and trying not be eaten by the natives..... But I also like the notion of BenJen returning to Winterfell to maintain the powerful magical link between Stark [blood] in Winterfell and the power of the wall to protect the realm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miriel Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 While I think the Hooded Man is most likely the BF or Theon's alter ego, I am warming to his being Robett Glover. Where did he go anyway? He is either w/ Davos or he went secretly North w/ Manderly. Mayhaps he helped w/ the Frey pie? He cannot be open about his identity at WF b/c Roose would kill him. (Glover knows Roose turned well before the RW.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starky Smurf Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Here are my odds for who the Hooded Man really is:Blackfish 2:1BenJen 3:1Hollis 5:1Howland Reed 50:1Davos 100:1 I think my best theory is the Blackfish, aided by Howland Reed, bypassed Moat Cailin and made it to Winterfell (several options...there before Bolton got there, hiding in the crypts, fell in with Bolton's men, or fell in with Manderly's men). Howland Reed is nearby, with Hollis and Ned's remains, waiting (or maybe still in the Crag). Davos is still on Skagos looking for Rickon and trying not be eaten by the natives..... But I also like the notion of BenJen returning to Winterfell to maintain the powerful magical link between Stark [blood] in Winterfell and the power of the wall to protect the realm.Who is Hollis? I wiki'd the name, got nuttin'. So, you don't even give odds for Glover (either of them), or the Liddle? Has anyone suggested it might be an advance scout/spy of the Umber host who was camped at the gates beating their drums? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starky Smurf Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 While I think the Hooded Man is most likely the BF or Theon's alter ego, I am warming to his being Robett Glover. Where did he go anyway? He is either w/ Davos or he went secretly North w/ Manderly. Mayhaps he helped w/ the Frey pie? He cannot be open about his identity at WF b/c Roose would kill him. (Glover knows Roose turned well before the RW.)Yeah, wish I had my book on me, would love to read that last Davos chapter again and see what Robett said his next move was, if anything at all. You know what? I'm now betting it's him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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