Mafia 88: Glimmers of the Pattern

[Lady Gaga]

I have to say, having thought about it last night and this morning, I still believe Tuon to be innocent. I'm not sure what I think about Nynaeve but I'm not comfortable voting Tuon today.

[House Tyrell]

Oh crap, you're talking about the Charmed game. You're right there was a mod CF in that game and there was a serial killer who was a finder, an innocent finder, a vigilante, a guard and a healer. I can't believe I forgot about that game. I was thinking about the two games previous without a mod CF that had finders.

Well that then also disproves the theory that Nyna put forth that a game with a finder doesn't have a healer.

I guess this Charmed game was 3 factions? I find it's an awful lot of good roles, but healer in this game can also help the SK since, unless things have changed since I last played, the SK is BP, right? Back then also CF+Finder+Hearler was considered too powerful.

Add to that the other role reveals we had and that factored into my thoughts.

Still working on my reread. Tuon has an awful lot of posts.

ETA: it's not clear, I mean the healer threat can help the SK.

The healer himself doesnt. So no, it still seems like an awful lot of good roles.

[House Tyrell]

This post made me laugh amidst the back and forth of Tuon and Nynaeve.

Not really. Back before the influx of people to the board, games used to have a finder or healer, never both because it was deemed too powerful for a finder to just reveal and a healer to just heal them until end game. Nynaeve is clearly old school.

Exactly. You can call me grannynaeve. :P

[House Mooton]

I don't think we have as little power as Vig + 2-shot traveller + grey ajah + your throwaway role which means even if Nyneave is mafia I think Siuan has to be town.

Partial reveal? We could easily have a dead healer - I actually argued previously that Tuon's role implies it.

And I very much disagree with your proposal to lynch outside of Tuon/Nynaeve. I currently believe scum are Faile/Siuan + Tuon/Nynaeve + Mat/Cadsuane and Tuon/Nynaeve is the one I feel strongest about.

[Lady Gaga]

Partial reveal? We could easily have a dead healer - I actually argued previously that Tuon's role implies it.

And I very much disagree with your proposal to lynch outside of Tuon/Nynaeve. I currently believe scum are Faile/Siuan + Tuon/Nynaeve + Mat/Cadsuane and Tuon/Nynaeve is the one I feel strongest about.

You think Aviendha is innocent why?

[House Ashford]

I find it rather convenient these little opportunistic seeds you keep planting but not actually saying anything.

You know Tuon, I really am trying to help out of this clusterfuck where we are right now, but since you've hit the shithole all it looks like you're doing is grasping for

any straws around you to escape out. I am led to believe an FM wouldn't use the "I'm Innocent" plea simply because it's something that can only be used once and be reminded forever that you've lied about it before if you get squirreled.

Really, get your mojo back on and look at what Faile did, she came over, decided to ask you something about her investigation, and opted out the new information provided to base her single grand case in the whole game at a potentially end-game scenario. How effing convenient.

Does it not strike you as odd that Faile is basing her case entirely on Verin being innocent? How can she be so convinced about that?

I'll be back in a few hours. I have a few things IRL to take care of.

[House Mooton]

You think Aviendha is innocent why?

Because she is and I can tell. Rawr.

Tuon, I disagree with your second slip too. Nynaeve's explanation is the only way to read that phrase that makes a lick of sense to me.

[House Reed]

Partial reveal? We could easily have a dead healer - I actually argued previously that Tuon's role implies it.

And I very much disagree with your proposal to lynch outside of Tuon/Nynaeve. I currently believe scum are Faile/Siuan + Tuon/Nynaeve + Mat/Cadsuane and Tuon/Nynaeve is the one I feel strongest about.

Who would (have) be(en) the symp to those teams?

[House Mooton]

Not really sure.

[House Mooton]

Quick set-up point: having both a town Traveller and Goosebumps is cool. And Faraday is cool, so that's a point in Tuon's favour.

[House Sunglass]

Taking longer then I wanted. Will be another 1-2 hours. Good news is when I get on I'll be here for 8 straight hours roughly.

[Lady Gaga]

Taking longer then I wanted. Will be another 1-2 hours. Good news is when I get on I'll be here for 8 straight hours roughly.

Think it's worth going to night to get to an odd number of players?

[House Mooton]

That would just get Thom killed, no?

[Lady Gaga]

That would just get Thom killed, no?

Assuming no healer, yea. So forget that.

[House Mooton]

Have to go soon. Nynaeve feels like the right call to me.

Scum flip when I come back would be nice.

[House Pommingham]

I guess this Charmed game was 3 factions? I find it's an awful lot of good roles, but healer in this game can also help the SK since, unless things have changed since I last played, the SK is BP, right? Back then also CF+Finder+Hearler was considered too powerful.

Add to that the other role reveals we had and that factored into my thoughts.

Still working on my reread. Tuon has an awful lot of posts.

ETA: it's not clear, I mean the healer threat can help the SK.

The healer himself doesnt. So no, it still seems like an awful lot of good roles.

Yes, the SK was also bullet proof.

ETA: Yes, it was three factions. The FM in that game didn't have any roles. It was a serial killer who was a BP with a two shot find and 3 FM team with a symp.

[House Targaryen]

It is day 4

10 players remain: Aviendha., Cadsuane Melaidhrin, Gawyn Trakand, Mat Cauthon, Moiraine Damodred, Siuan Sanche, Thom Merrilin, Tuon, Faile Bashere, Nynaeve al'Meara.

6 votes are needed for a conviction or 5 to go to night.

2 votes for Cadsuane Melaidhrin (Siuan Sanche, Faile Bashere)

2 votes for Nynaeve al'Meara (Tuon, Moiraine Damodred)

1 vote for Tuon (Nynaeve al'Meara)

5 players have not voted: Aviendha., Cadsuane Melaidhrin, Gawyn Trakand, Mat Cauthon, Thom Merrilin.

[House Tyrell]

Gah, I've finally reread Tuon up until the end of day 2. It really sucks that I missed such a big chunk of that day but nothing to do about it. I've not done day 3 and 4 and I'm not sure I'll be able to complete it.

I'll try to mention things not related to Moiraine first, then go about Moiraine as well as raise some other points about Tuon herself.

I've left apart the interactions/ suspicions she had of dead players, there were not that much anyway, apart from the fight with Logain on day 1.

First: I think it's unlikely that Tuon is partnered with Faile or Aviendha.

Faile is more rapidly done: on day 1, when Lan went against Faile, she followed, using Elayne's supposed good gut, as well as Lan's arguments:

I know that you shouldn't just listen to the thoughts of the dead, but Elayne thought that either Moiraine or Faile were scum on his lynch. What I remember about him also is that he has pretty good instincts. (IIRC this is who he picked out from his wagon that were scum.)

and votes Faile (who had already 3 votes):

I will move to Faile for now. I really hate lynching a newbie on their first their day. I know he could be scum, but still I'd prefer to give him a day if we can help it.

Not much on Faile on day 2 but I think that unless Tuon had done the math about Faile's lynchability it makes it highly unlikely they are partners.

For Aviendah, it stems from day 2:

In post #1050 (it's long, here is the link: ), she makes a case and votes against Aviendha. I agree with some of the points she brought against Aviendha. I asked several questions to Aviendah and I don't think she answered to any, and now she's been replaced. So if they are partners, that was some good distancing.

Post #1084 (): jumps on Aviendah about the Logain/grey ajah issue. This Aviendah theory was really weird, but I would have it as a null tell.

She also pushes for Aviendha at the end of day 2, where she questions Verin a lot about Moiraine, and Aviendha: beginning is here here:

What about him read scum newbie rather than flustered newbie?

Also do you think the same about Aviendha?

I won't quote it all as it's rather long, but she makes it clear she would support an Aviendha lynch at that point. If Aviendah's Tuon partner then Tuon seems really ready to bus her.

Her interactions with Cadsuane are less clear cut:

on day 1, she lists Cadsuane as a possible vote: that's in the post I quoted earlier where she voted Gawyn, she listed Logain, Egwene and Cads in that order as potential votes.

On day 2 to Cadsuane:

Actually, at the moment I'm leaning toward that night kill making you look better. It's something I need to think about, and there are a couple things I find suspicious about you, but I'm trying to decide if I think you would choose a kill that would lead back to you.

She later posts a quite wishy-washy post against Cadsuane (#1072: ). Not quoting it it's too long. Her main points against Cadsuane are the accusations of overdefensiveness Cads had against Tuon; raises other minor points against Cads but leans town and repeats that the NK makes Cads look good for her.

There's again another exchange with Cadsuane in post after Cadsuane's reread of her (#1153: ). Again it doesn't rule out Cads as a partner.

Moiraine in the next post, it might take some time, have some RL stuff to do.

[House Tyrell]

Quick set-up point: having both a town Traveller and Goosebumps is cool. And Faraday is cool, so that's a point in Tuon's favour.

:rolleyes:

[House Pommingham]

You know Tuon, I really am trying to help out of this clusterfuck where we are right now, but since you've hit the shithole all it looks like you're doing is grasping for

any straws around you to escape out. I am led to believe an FM wouldn't use the "I'm Innocent" plea simply because it's something that can only be used once and be reminded forever that you've lied about it before if you get squirreled.

Really, get your mojo back on and look at what Faile did, she came over, decided to ask you something about her investigation, and opted out the new information provided to base her single grand case in the whole game at a potentially end-game scenario. How effing convenient.

Does it not strike you as odd that Faile is basing her case entirely on Verin being innocent? How can she be so convinced about that?

I'll be back in a few hours. I have a few things IRL to take care of.

But I never get squirreled ;)

I see what you mean with Faile. I had to go back and check the timing of it. It is weird, she was directly involved in the conversation with me about my role, but she does say that she doesn't know what to make of the role claims so was going to reread the others. It does seem weird that she would discount that possibility of Nyna being FM (or me for that matter since they're saying that it has to be one or the other).

As far as the Verin thing, even if Verin were her symp she wouldn't know it so she wouldn't know for sure. She might be making the same mistake that I've been making by calling the NaKs innocent.