The Wild Wolf.

[The Summer Islander]

Thats a tough one, I would go with Brandon getting more tail than Robert since he seems both charismatic (like Robert) but also a bit more brooding, giving him that whole mysterious badboy appeal lol.

Well if you're a lady and you like that kinda brooding bad boy thing then yes. But Robert (outside of sex with Cersei) seems like he would try and pleasure you, and make sure you're enjoying his dutiful back breaking pumping just as much as he is (so long as he isn't drunk). He just seems like more fun. His love and enthusiasm for sex would kinda rub off on you. I'm sure Brandon was fun, but he seems like he would take you for granted, and make you feel like shit in the morning.

[Ser_Patreck]

Say. Aerys isn't mad. He doesn't order Brandon arrested. Everything else go as canon. What happens?

Situation two. Aerys isn't mad. He doesn't order Brandon arrested. RHaegar is in the Red Keep. What happens?

[Naathi Prince]

Say. Aerys isn't mad. He doesn't order Brandon arrested. Everything else go as canon. What happens?

Situation two. Aerys isn't mad. He doesn't order Brandon arrested. RHaegar is in the Red Keep. What happens?

Aerys isn't mad, he threatens Brandon and keeps him under arrest until Rickard comes and ransoms him (which is what the normal course of action would be)

Rhaegar is in the keep either he fights Brandon or he tells Brandon Lyanna came willingly. The point being that the problem is Aerys is mad and Rhaegar was out being sneaky with Lyanna and the Kingsguard.

[The Roaring Bear]

Say. Aerys isn't mad. He doesn't order Brandon arrested. Everything else go as canon. What happens?

Situation two. Aerys isn't mad. He doesn't order Brandon arrested. RHaegar is in the Red Keep. What happens?

I believe that if Aerys wasn't mad it would have went:

Situation 1: He wouldn't "arrest" Brandon, but may "detain" him, while he ordered his son to court in order to speak for his crimes.

Result A: Upon arrival at KL Rhaegar explains himself (if it wasnt a forced abduction). Brandon doesn't care because Rhaegar still shamed the family -Brandon and Rhaegar fight - Brandon wins (Rhaegar did beat Brandon in a joust, an actual fight is much different).

Result B: Rhaegar does not show up and he becomes an outlaw (that can later be pardoned by Aerys after some mending time).

Result C: Rhaegar explains himself (if it wasn't forced abduction) Brandon and he go their seperate ways.

Situation 2: See Situation 1 Result A excluding the detainment, and situation 1 Result C

[Naathi Prince]

Its just not worth it for a King to defy a great lord of his. Imagine if Ned just said "screw you Aerys you don't have any dragons", and declares the North independent instead of joining up with King Bob. Do you think the dragon-less Targaryens manage to deal with that? Especially considering Balon Greyjoy would probably see an opportunity and follow suit. With the Ned bottling up Moat Cailin and the crannogmen giving the Loyalists the runs, I don't see this is a good option for Aerys. It was foolish of Aerys to burn Rickard and kill Brandon.

[A wilding]

A sane Aerys summons Rickard Stark to KL as well as Rhaegar and tries to agree a deal.

Because willing or not, Lyanna is now dishonoured and unmarriageable (unless, possibly, if Rhaegar dies, which will be unacceptable to Aerys).

The best hope for a deal would be Rhaegar marries Lyanna as his second wife.

[Arctic Cowboy]

what i don't get is brandon actually believing that lyanna could be kidnapped. if he knew his sister at all, he'd see that anyone who wanted to lay a hand on her

would lose that hand before he did (off-topic... i think a character in the books said that in a different context?). like many have already mentioned on this thread, the typical stark attitude is to leap before you look. i can imagine this is why brandon didn't stop to think before he went storming into the red keep. he just let his emotions dictate his actions. because of that, he seems like a really idiotic and reckless guy. i certainly don't think he's the brightest bulb, but then again neither is rhaegar who is supposed to be intelligent but apparently lacks any common sense.

also, what if brandon's ego was playing in there somewhere too? another argument was posted here about him seeing rhaegar as a rival after harrenhal.

maybe all these things (his anger, his impulsive nature, his pride) motivated him to do what he did.

[Ser_Patreck]

Aerys isn't mad, he threatens Brandon and keeps him under arrest until Rickard comes and ransoms him (which is what the normal course of action would be)

And Lyanna is still with Rhaegar, Brandon achieved... Nothing, and made his father lose money and standing at the court. Also, this was a man had threatened the royal family. I'd be surprised if Aerys asked for Benjen or Ned to ensure future compliance.

Rhaegar is in the keep either he fights Brandon or he tells Brandon Lyanna came willingly. The point being that the problem is Aerys is mad and Rhaegar was out being sneaky with Lyanna and the Kingsguard.

He fights Brandon. If he wins, what then? Brandon would put his tail between his legs and leave? I doubt it. He tells Lyanna came willingly. Would Brandon simply believe? What then? "Sorry, man. I didn't know"? This is not the way you act with the royal family. Brandon was in trouble.

I believe that if Aerys wasn't mad it would have went:

Situation 1: He wouldn't "arrest" Brandon, but may "detain" him, while he ordered his son to court in order to speak for his crimes.

Based on...? A lordling's words? You don't order the King to do anything.

Result A: Upon arrival at KL Rhaegar explains himself (if it wasnt a forced abduction). Brandon doesn't care because Rhaegar still shamed the family -Brandon and Rhaegar fight - Brandon wins (Rhaegar did beat Brandon in a joust, an actual fight is much different).

You forget this is the Crown Prince. Brandon can't simply "not care" and ask for a fight anyway. THis is not the Wild West. His continual desire to meet Rhaegar in battle would be seen as a threat.

And you severely underestimate Rhaegar. But let's go with it anyway. They fight, Brandon wins... So?

Result B: Rhaegar does not show up and he becomes an outlaw (that can later be pardoned by Aerys after some mending time).

The Crown Prince? An outlaw?

Result C: Rhaegar explains himself (if it wasn't forced abduction) Brandon and he go their seperate ways.

Situation 2: See Situation 1 Result A excluding the detainment, and situation 1 Result C

Except one does not simply threaten the Crown Prince, then go, "Aw, cool then, sorry for that, I'm going home"

"Come out and die, Rhaegar" - That's what Brandon said. This was a heir who expressed desire to kill the Crown Prince based on little evidence. Who had the temerity to charge the Red Keep unprotected and ask for heads.

Brandon behaved stupidly.

[pitakon]

what if lyanna is the one who seduced Rhaegar? What if Rhaegar was pussywhipped into hiding. and by the time he realized it the rebellion is in full bloom.

[Arctic Cowboy]

what if lyanna is the one who seduced Rhaegar? What if Rhaegar was pussywhipped into hiding. and by the time he realized it the rebellion is in full bloom.

well, lyanna seemed attracted to him but i don't think she needed to seduce him necessarily. rhaegar wanted to make babies with her, anyway. :D

[pitakon]

rhaegar wasn't a notorious womanizer. I think it was the Starks plan all along. Get an heir off Rhaegar, kill the Dornish heirs. Brandon and Rickard just didn't expect Aerys to serve roast northerner.

[Milcov]

I believe that if Aerys wasn't mad it would have went:

Situation 1: He wouldn't "arrest" Brandon, but may "detain" him, while he ordered his son to court in order to speak for his crimes.

Result A: Upon arrival at KL Rhaegar explains himself (if it wasnt a forced abduction). Brandon doesn't care because Rhaegar still shamed the family -Brandon and Rhaegar fight - Brandon wins (Rhaegar did beat Brandon in a joust, an actual fight is much different).

Result B: Rhaegar does not show up and he becomes an outlaw (that can later be pardoned by Aerys after some mending time).

Result C: Rhaegar explains himself (if it wasn't forced abduction) Brandon and he go their seperate ways.

Situation 2: See Situation 1 Result A excluding the detainment, and situation 1 Result C

Could you be any more of a Stark fanboy here. Rhaegar would beat Brandon in that fight as Brandon would be rash and reckless. We haven't seen anything of Brandon to let us think that he'd be a superior warrior to Rhaegar at all. Rhaegar also wouldn't become an outlaw under any circumstances.

Aerys was well within his rights to kill Brandon, or at the very least arrest him and likely send him to the Wall for threatening the Crown Prince. He's an idiot, just as Jaime was a reckless fool (someone brought that comparison up). When Robert Baratheon doesn't go beserk, anyone who does is a grade A moron. I imagine a Brandon POV would be equivalent to one from Hodor.

[Ser_Patreck]

Could you be any more of a Stark fanboy here. Rhaegar would beat Brandon in that fight as Brandon would be rash and reckless. We haven't seen anything of Brandon to let us think that he'd be a superior warrior to Rhaegar at all. Rhaegar also wouldn't become an outlaw under any circumstances.

Aerys was well within his rights to kill Brandon, or at the very least arrest him and likely send him to the Wall for threatening the Crown Prince. He's an idiot, just as Jaime was a reckless fool (someone brought that comparison up). When Robert Baratheon doesn't go beserk, anyone who does is a grade A moron. I imagine a Brandon POV would be equivalent to one from Hodor.

Marry me.

[Ned's Epic Beard]

Aerys was well within his rights to kill Brandon, or at the very least arrest him and likely send him to the Wall for threatening the Crown Prince. He's an idiot.

Why do you believe that Brandon just rode to kings landing & threaten Rhaegar? I mean this story is coming form anti-stark guy like Jaime or other people in KL. And wasn't it convenient for mad kind to kill all of his friend so the real story wouldn't get out.

If you believe the word that Brandon threatened Rhaegar from an anti-stark factor then you should also believe that Rhaegar was a rapist and abductor of lyanna stark, even if it is coming from anti-targ factors(Robert, Bran, Brandon)

[Alric Stark]

Dunk, a Hedge Knight with no House backing was granted trial by combat with Princes.Brandon is the Heir to one of the most powerful Houses in Westeros and was demanding trial by combat. He should have expected to be granted it. Anyone who says otherwise is saying it is foolish is based upon knowledge of the outcome being that Areys goes crazy and defies Westeros custom and law. Brandon had an obligation to defend his sister and families honor. Was "Rheagar come out and die" the most politically correct way to phase it, no but it was not "stupid".

If Rheagar thought that he would win he would have returned to King's Landing and accepted the trial. Instead Rickard was able to get to Kings Landing from the North first, Rheagar stayed away. He may have been a better jouster, Brandon was the better sword.

[Ser_Patreck]

Dunk, a Hedge Knight with no House backing was granted trial by combat with Princes.Brandon is the Heir to one of the most powerful Houses in Westeros and was demanding trial by combat. He should have expected to be granted it. Anyone who says otherwise is saying it is foolish is based upon knowledge of the outcome being that Areys goes crazy and defies Westeros custom and law. Brandon had an obligation to defend his sister and families honor. Was "Rheagar come out and die" the most politically correct way to phase it, no but it was not "stupid".

If Rheagar thought that he would win he would have returned to King's Landing and accepted the trial. Instead Rickard was able to get to Kings Landing from the North first, Rheagar stayed away. He may have been a better jouster, Brandon was the better sword.

Except Daeron II was King in Ser Duncan's time. Aerys II is King in Brandon's time. Everyone knew the difference.

And again, his actions were stupid, because they would never yield any kind of productive result. Let's said a proper Trial by Combat was granted and Brandon won. What then? He would be considered innocent of threatening the Crown Prince, but would never be trusted again, losing the Starks respect and morale, and more importantly, that wouldn't give him Lyanna.

And please. There isn't any proof Rhaegar even knew about the challenge. And even if he didn't choose to entertain it, I doubt it was because he was afraid of Brandon. We have no idea who was the better sword.

[The Fallen]

` Robert Baratheon could have stepped in as the champion. Although I doubt Brandon would've allowed it. I agree that Rhaegar would not have been afraid to duel either of those guys. The Westerosi nobles seem, by and large, to be a very brave lot.

[Alric Stark]

The statement everyone "knew" Areys was crazy is false. He was considered Mad AFTER the way he handled Brandon, and Rickard. And if he wins then Areys likely orders the Kingsguard to return Lyanna.

@ Ser Patrick it is obvious we are going to agree to disagree. I see nobility, honor, loyalty, and courage. You see what you see.

[The Fallen]

` Ask yourself how would have Oberyn, Jaime, Loras or Jaime have acted? Other than the language, they all would have reacted the same way. Why? Because you can't allow your House to be dishonored. Even if it is the royal family who's causing that dishonor.

And if you're the royal family you can't dishonor the highest of the nobles because you can be overthrown.

You can call Brandon dumb, impulsive, brave or what-have-you for. But the Targaryens had to be confronted.

[Arctic Cowboy]

rhaegar wasn't a notorious womanizer. I think it was the Starks plan all along. Get an heir off Rhaegar, kill the Dornish heirs. Brandon and Rickard just didn't expect Aerys to serve roast northerner.

i'm not saying he was a "notorious womanizer". he just wanted to get a child off lyanna (and only lyanna).

as for rickard's southron ambitions based on your theory, do you mean to say that brandon and lyanna both knew the conspiracy but rickard didn't let ned in on the plan? just wanted to clarify.