Twists that got you again on a re-read

[Luthien Targaryen]

I can't think of a plot twists i did catch first time round....they really did have to be signposted with a really big flashy sign of the "Jaime and Cersei Lannister are the real parents of Joff, Tommen and Myrcella" or "That's your sister you're flirting with Theon" variety... Ok, i kind of twigged that Ned wasn't Jon's father, but that's about as much as i'd got..it really annoyed me that i couldn't work out who killed Renly (or Joff, but in my defence i did read the second half of "Storm" after "Feast".). It hadn't even occurred to me that Beric Dondarrion was undead.

Trip two: yay! I know who killed Joff and Renly! I've worked out who Reek is at anytime, and i can see where the J=R+L crowd are coming from.

So what have i spotted so far on trip three, so far (coz Joff's just about to die on my current read through) ?

Arya is supposed to be Elmar Frey's princess.

Roose Bolton is a lot sneakier than i'd previously thought.

Everybody in the damned story seems to know about the Red Wedding before it happened, except the people involved (anybody else notice that this extensive list includes Theon?) I'm paying a lot more attention to anything mad old crones, Patchface, Jojen or three eyed crows say.

All that Stark kids appear to be able to "warg". One of Catelyn's chapters describes her dreams as being "dark and laced with terrors", which i was proud of spotting.

Somewhat confused in Edric Dayne and Edric Storm appearing to have the same first name....is there something in that?

J=R+L does seem to be the most logical explanation, but whether it makes a difference i'm not sure.

Oh and i've only just managed to convince myself that Melisandre is having it off with Stannis...

I was still baffled by the two blokes having a conversation in the cellar until the internet pointed it out to me.

[Abel]

i just lost the quote....

but there was someone pointing out to the vision Jaime had of his mother - which was really disturbing, the one where she says: did you really know your father?

... i suppose this is nothing, but it stroke me when the next chapter was about Samwell in the Citadel and was told that it is able to send visions through the glass candles. and it was just statet in the next chapter. ...

anyhow, marvyn in the position to send visions is interesting.

[LadyMondragon]

It's already mentioned in this thread... but Stannis and Davos talking about Melisandre's vision of Renly beating him [stannis] at King's Landing.

I didn't catch that the first time around.

I'm in progress of my first reread... and I am moving at a snail's pace... my family has started to make fun of me for carrying the books, a notebook and a highlighter with me at all times...

ETA: I noticed today that in one of Jon's chapters, after Qhorin joins them at the FotFM, Jon overhears Chett and Lark the Sisterman talking about how they want to turn back. Lark tells Chett that Mormont won't give them a choice to turn back, Chett says they won't give him [Mormont] a choice either. He dropped the hint of mutiny in book 2... that GRRM is a sly dog that's for sure LOL

[ladyinblack]

One twist that got me:

(1) How long was Theon Greyjoy in charge of Winterfell?

(2) How long would it take for men to march from the Dreadfort to Winterfell?

(3) How long would it have taken for Ramsay Bolton, whether in disguise as "Reek" or not, to actually get to the Dreadfort, organise and order a small army to march, and bring them back in fit condition to fight?

Because I think the Bolton troops that torched Winterfell, after destroying Ser Rodrik and his relief force (which otherwise would have retaken Winterfell), must have been on the way BEFORE Theon Greyjoy captured Winterfell - before Ramsay/Reek was free. And thus, they could only have been sent by Roose, with instructions to blag their way into Winterfell as friends and torch the place (possibly intending to rescue Ramsay/Reek from the dungeons en route.) When Ramsay turns up alive, having been freed by Theon, it just plays right into their hands, but they were already on the way there.

And if Ser Rodrik had had any of the same suspicions that I have, then the Bolton troops' surprise attack on his forces would *not* have been a surprise, and thus Rodrik's numbers would have won the day - Winterfell would have been retaken safely - and Ramsay would be either dead, or back in jail awaiting execution, his disguise blown, and the Boltons' treachery uncovered.

(And let's not forget that Ramsay orders the Freys to be kept safe even while murdering the rest of the city. And that Roose had just married Fat Walda.)

Yes, I really think the Bolton/Frey treachery goes back THAT far. To the extent that, if Robb had fulfilled his promise of marriage to a Frey daughter, the Red Wedding would still have happened... the only difference would have been that it would have been his own wedding rather than Edmure Tully's. He would still have been murdered at it.

The whole kingdom thinks Robb a fool for betraying his sworn promise and marrying Jeyne Westerling - but I think had he kept it, it would have led to his death anyway, and in fact the impulse to marry Jeyne may even have, completely unknowingly, come close to *saving* him rather than destroying him, if he hadn't bothered trying to bring the Freys back onside. But only if he could have brought his army back to the north without having to pass the Freys (so he would have had to pass the Bloody Gate - no difficulty with the Blackfish onside - go through the Vale of Arryn, and return by ship through White Harbor.)

I agree with this . Remember at the Harvest Feast at Winterfell, Lady Hornwood was upset & warned Ser Rodrik, Luwin & Bran about the Boltons gathering a large host of armed troops at the Dreadfort. She also told them about their threats to take Hornwood & the rumors of the "hunts" Ramsay & Reek were having in the countryside.

Later, Rodrik caught Reek & Ramsey at their play.

The more you reread -the more you see--most addictive books ever

The Boltons started plotting as soon as Ned was dead & Robb was gone

[Pocketsaviour]

Just realised that Anguy, the archer from the BWB, won the Hand's Tourney archery prize, and Ned tried to recruit him, but was refused.

[LadyMondragon]

I am still in the process of rereading ACoK and a few others have popped up...

#1: Robett Glover was in league with the Brave Companions and Roose Bolton. Arya didn't need to free them because they would have been released soon enough.

#2: Daenerys sees the fall of Yunkai in the HofU.

#3: Jon Snow sees the eyes of a CotF when fleeing from the wildlings after Ghost was attacked by the eagle.

I keep finding things that I missed the first time around...

[Loyal Hound to the Hound]

My friend pointed this out to me a while ago and I've had some awesome ideas about it.

Assuming that the Novice in ADWD is Sandor Clegane, and Ser Robert Strong is actually a zombified version of Gregor Clegane, I think that in the next book during Cersei's trial by combat, it will be revealed that the Faith of the Seven's champion will be Sandor Clegane, something that has been foreshadowed since AGOT - the final battle between the two brothers.

Just as a GRRM fanboy I also would love it if when Sandor and Clegane fought each other Sandor kills Gregor with a flaming sword in an ironic twist of fate, or even better, Sandor sets both himself and Gregor on fire so they both die by fire. No proof for that last bit, but it sounds like something GRRM would do!

[Aderyn the Sly]

From Sansa's Chapter in GoT:

Frog-faced Lord Slyntsat at the end of the council table wearing a black velvet doublet and a shiny cloth-of-gold cape, nodding with approval every time the king pronounced a sentence. Sansa started hard at his ugly face, remembering how he had thrown down her father for Ser Ilyn to behead, wishing she could hurt him, wishing that some hero would throw him down and cut off his head. But a voice insider her wispered, There are no heroes, and she remembered what Lord Petyr had said to her, here in this very hall. "Life is not a song, sweetling," he told her. "You may learn that one day to your sorrow."

Then comes one of my favorite lines in DoD:

This is wrong, Jon thought. "Stop."

Emmett turned back, frowning. "My Lord?"

"I will not hang him," said Jon. "Bring him here."

"Oh, Seven save us," he heard Bowen Marsh cry out.

The smile that Lord Janos Slynt smiled then had all the sweetness of rancid butter. Until Jon said, "Edd, fetch me a block," and unsheathed Longclaw.

[Lord Firiten Dawnfyre]

The Hound wont fight Ser Strong as champion of the Faith. Cersei would die if he did and she can't die until all her children do.

Also, I thought Ramsay killed all the Ironborn at the time miller's sons were killed in place of Bran and Rickon.

To tell the truth, I missed some stuff on my second read that I noticed on my first... which really just confused me.

[Lord Firiten Dawnfyre]

Also, Dany's vision of a great stone beast breathing shadow fire in the HotU isn't necessarily a dragon. It is never described such and Mr. Martin is very

careful with his wording.

And has anyone else noticed that in Sansa's chapter in which she meets Renly she describes him with green eyes, not blue - author's mistake or 'unreliable narrating' on Sansa's part?

[SkynJay]

I didn't realize that Littlefinger truly "thinks" he deflowered Cat - (He thought Lyssa was Cat). Here there is truth behind LF's boasts. My 'mother' pointed this out to me. Dah!

Ok I missed this. I know this is old, but where is the evidence for this one?

[Flower ID]

From Sansa's Chapter in GoT:

Then comes one of my favorite lines in DoD:

I totally missed that! Am going back to re-reread. THanks

[Flower ID]

Please help! In aSoS, when Sansa is in the garden before she builds her snow Winterfell she thinks of her surroundings as a pure world. why does she think she doesn't belong there?

And in the next paragraph she looks up at the snow and closes her eyes and when she opens her eyes she is on her knees not remembering falling. Can anyone tell me what I'm missing here?

[Roadside Rose]

On my third re-read of GoT, I noticed this....

"I am always proud of Bran," Catelyn replied, watching the sword as he stroked it. She could see the rippling deep within the steel, where the metal had been folded back on itself a hundred times in the forging. Catelyn had no love for swords, but she could not deny that Ice had its own beauty. It had been forged in Valyria, before the Doom had come to the old Freehold, when the ironsmiths had worked their metal with spells as well as hammers. Four hundred years old it was, and as sharp as the day it was forged. The name it bore was older still, a legacy from the age of heroes, when the Starks were Kings in the North.

I totally missed this. And I think this is very important to the story because it says how the 'Ice' sword wielded by Ned is not the original 'Ice' sword. The original Ice was retired to the crypts 400 years ago.

[TheMysteriousOne]

Ok I missed this. I know this is old, but where is the evidence for this one?

When Lysa is going batshit crazy yelling at Sansa for 'seducing' LF, she reveals that she had sex with LF while he was drunk and he called her Cat at the end.

[Pocketsaviour]

Re-reading SOS right now and noticed two things yesterday.

1. Maggy the Frog is Jeyne Westerling's great-grandmother on her mother's side. I had never worked this out before.

2. While Dany is on the ship Balerion, and Jorah is whining at her about "Arstan" being untrustworthy, and Belwas being a fat joke, Dany recalls the prophecy of the three betrayals. Then she thinks that Jorah saved her from the poisoned wine in the market, and Arstan saved her from the manticore, before she knew who he was. Then she muses that maybe Belwas will be the next one to save her.

Which he does, two books, later by eating all the poisoned locusts that were meant for her.

[Pocketsaviour]

On my third re-read of GoT, I noticed this....

I totally missed this. And I think this is very important to the story because it says how the 'Ice' sword wielded by Ned is not the original 'Ice' sword. The original Ice was retired to the crypts 400 years ago.

That's actually very interesting because it opens the door to either Bran, Meera or Hodor possibly having the original Ice with them, all unknown. Did Osha take a sword with her too?

[sheofseidhr]

The Hound to Arya: "...maybe we'll even be in time for your uncle's BLOODY WEDDING." I don't believe Sandor was in on the RW. I do believe the wording was deliberate. More of an "I see what ya did there" moment than a twist, but still...

'Tis good.

[Raining Blood Magic]

Arstan Whitebeard is actually Ser Barristan Selmy.

[Pocketsaviour]

Just picked this up today while re-reading CoK.

Sansa received the note from Dontos that says "If you want to go home, meet me in the Godswood tonight" (or whatever wording.)

She goes to the Godswood although terribly afraid that the note was bait for a trap. Then Dontos appears.

Sansa found herself thinking of Lady again. She could smell out falsehood...

Then a few pages later she is returning back to Maegor's and bumps into the Hound, who escorts her the rest of the way.

Sandor Clegane snorted. "Pretty thing, and such a bad liar. A dog can smell a lie, you know. Look around you and take a good whiff. They're all liars here... and every one better than you."