2 questions on your reading process

[Tony Soprano]

1. I've been actively rooting for Stannis since the middle of ACoK. But some characters which I already liked when I read the books, have grown on me even more. Like Jaime and Brienne,

2. No, I don't really care about ethics.

[Scipio Africanus]

1) I pick sides based on what I read yeah. For example I have my bias against the Lannisters apart from Tyrion, right off the bat. Jaime is a first class jerk, Cercei a total bitch and Tywin the godfather wannabe. Tyrion was relatively the normal one, intelligent and witty to boot, and apart from most of ADWD one of my favs but in the end of ADWD he's coming back to his old self. Of course later we learn more about the rest which brings things in a different perspective, but I'll always be biased regarding the Lannisters ex Tyrion.

2) While I realize it's fiction set in a fantasy world in a medieval mind set, I do still care about the morality of the actions performed by the characters. So I find the Dany - Drogo sex scenes rather disturbing (because in my mind its rape) rather than fascinating.

[lewis92]

I root for the individuals more than sides

especially Jaime, Sandor and Stannis

and Ramsay

[Gerold_Hightower]

I root for the individuals more than sides

especially Jaime, Sandor and Stannis

and Ramsay

You are the first I have seen to root for Ramsay :eek:

But I guess the characters are so many, one for every taste.

[starki]

1) I like Stark family, but my favourite character is Tyrion.

As for Iron Throne, I root for Daenerys or Stannis.

2) Sometimes the books are hard to read with so much rape going on. And kinslaying. And plain gutwrenching scenes like Red Wedding or "Reek" chapters in ADWD.

[Elder Sister]

Great question; thank you.

No, I don't actively pick sides...there are characters from each family that I find interesting, or genuinely root for while reading. Sansa, Tyrion, Jaime, the Hound, Arya, Brienne...and then there are characters that I just love to find out more about, because they're fascinating. Roose Bolton, Cersei, Tywin Lannister, Maester Aemon, Ser Jorah, Ramsay (argh! He scares me.), and Mance Rayder all fall into that category. GRRM is the best author I've ever read for taking multiple characters and making them multi-dimensional. They almost all seem like real, feeling, breathing, people.

Yes, I do weigh the ethics of what I'm reading. I can't help it...it's sometimes an emotional reaction, like the description of Reek's torture at the hands of Ramsay Bolton, or Joffrey's treatment of Sansa, or Stannis' use of shadow babies. These items and more all elicit a genuine, emotional response from me, and I think GRRM intentionally does this. We go from hating Theon to being horrified for his sake.

[Kittykatknits]

1. I do have characters that I'm more invested in than others and hope they end in a good place. I'm a Stark fan girl and hope they all are happy at the end. But, otherwise, I don't have much investment in to any particular house. I'm also a very fast reader, I finished each book within a couple days the first time around. Afterwards, I've done numerous re-reads of the entire series, re-reads by POV, chapter or passage re-reads as needed to better understand the character. There are also characters I don't much care for yet read their chapters so I don't miss out on the story.

2. Yes, I do think about the characters from an ethical and moral standpoint. We are modern readers and these books were written for a modern audience. I've never understood the idea that we should not pass judgment or react to character actions. The books are filled with morally grey characters committing questionable acts that seem to require a reaction from us as readers. But, a character's bad acts won't stop me from enjoying particular characters either.

[Liar]

Like many, I have the characters(houses) I love, the ones I not so much, and the other few ones I want dead yesterday. This not being influenced at all by "real-world" morality.

Having said that, I enjoy a good, tragic, heart-breaking death like Robb's, who was one of my favorites.

[WindOfWinter]

1) On the first read of aGoT I sided with the Starks, right up until Dany birthed the dragons. I immediately band-wagoned. Then Dany decided to become so boring I had no choice but to go for Stannis.

2) I could care less about the morals. Having to worry about right vs. wrong is something I do in real life (occasionally) and I think it'd take away the enjoyment of getting lost in the story and characters. Stannis feels he was robbed; that's something people can relate to. He's going to do anything to get what's his; that's something we'd like to be able to do but alas, reality makes it improbable. I just want to see him get what's coming to him or die trying.

[Leviathan I]

You should. The series was written for this generation. I don't think GRRM sat down and said, " I want to write something for the dead society and the future, screw this time I now live in."

You're completely missing my point; I do not attempt to apply my morality/ethics to a theme in the book like incest because it take place in a completely different context, for one it's a fantasy land but more importantly human morality obviously hasn't progressed as far as it has here in good ol' 21st century Earth. For example back in the dark ages and shit we'd do all kinds of barbaric shit but over time we've moved on as public morality has progressed. It would be wrong of me to hear about an instance of barbaric shit and immediately label it as wrong.

[total1402]

There are two awesome debates going on the board right now, one regarding whom would you support for a monarch and the other about the ethicality of warging/shadowpooping/burning MMD. They are interesting debates and both sides are discussing it intelligently... but I have two questions regarding your reading process, and I was made curious by those posts.

1) Do you actively pick a side and root for it while you read? Or do you think on it later and decide whom you like best? In that thread I did reply with Dany, but I hadn't thought I'm on whose side while I was reading. Basically, I'm rooting for each character I'm reading their POV.

And if, for example, your side loses, would you be sad? Like your team has lost?

2) Do you really really think about the ethicality of things while you read them? Again, I can talk myself to death if warging or shadowpooping are moral or not, but I never care if the characters are moral. I don't want them to be moral, I just want them to be interesting. And one of the most important aspect of that is that they must be interesting killers- pacifists are great in the real world but they have no place in fiction. Now I don't consider incest immoral, but if I did, I wouldn't mind it from characters....

So my second question is this, when you are reading, do you care for ethics, or you are simply interested in the spectacle?

Yes. But in some cases thats limited by the character set-up. ie I don't see the neccesity of picking a side between Dany or the Starks because both those plots have had zero connection. Indeed Essos could be a completely seperate book. I'am still holding out hope that the series isn't operating under a "THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!!!" rule.

Generally speaking the book does a good job for me of allowing the characters to do what they do and get away with it. So I don't think Dany is a bad person for burning Miri Maz Duur or Arya for killing a stable boy. Occasionally a few things happen which makes me dislike the characters or if I think they've made the wrong decision. ie Jon hacking Janos Slynts head off seemed very petty, Dany exiling Jorah coz he didn't accept he did wrong and beg. But by and large I tend to turn a blind eye and root for them regardless. Some characters like Cersei you are meant to hate and if there is nice person there its buried under a mountain. So yes, I'd say theres a small degree of immorality in my reading.

[Elder Sister]

Generally speaking the book does a good job for me of allowing the characters to do what they do and get away with it. So I don't think Dany is a bad person for burning Miri Maz Duur or Arya for killing a stable boy. Occasionally a few things happen which makes me dislike the characters or if I think they've made the wrong decision. ie Jon hacking Janos Slynts head off seemed very petty, Dany exiling Jorah coz he didn't accept he did wrong and beg. But by and large I tend to turn a blind eye and root for them regardless. Some characters like Cersei you are meant to hate and if there is nice person there its buried under a mountain. So yes, I'd say theres a small degree of immorality in my reading.

I have to comment on this: If Jon had not executed Janos Slynt, he would not have continued as Commander of the Night's Watch. Slynt deliberately disobeyed a direct order. Anyone who has ever served in the military knows this is a huge, huge deal. Jon had to deal with this, and quickly, and harshly. If he hadn't, he would have lost all control.

Jon Snow did the right thing in executing Slynt. He gave the man every opportunity to follow the order, but Slynt (and others) did not respect him or his authority (author-i-tay, as Cartman would say.). I am not wild about Jon Snow as a character, but I think he showed alot of strength in executing Slynt.

[total1402]

I have to comment on this: If Jon had not executed Janos Slynt, he would not have continued as Commander of the Night's Watch. Slynt deliberately disobeyed a direct order. Anyone who has ever served in the military knows this is a huge, huge deal. Jon had to deal with this, and quickly, and harshly. If he hadn't, he would have lost all control.

Jon Snow did the right thing in executing Slynt. He gave the man every opportunity to follow the order, but Slynt (and others) did not respect him or his authority (author-i-tay, as Cartman would say.). I am not wild about Jon Snow as a character, but I think he showed alot of strength in executing Slynt.

Yeah, but I felt it was personal and I instantly assume that ego comes into decisions like that. Comes from watching episodes of Sharpe. Some would argue that executing and flogging doesn't work or make people respect you when you act from a position of power. In fact that series pointed out that it only made you think of your commanders as contemptable for being cruel and petty. Still you're right, GRR Martin presents this in a much more positive light.

Don't see the strength of will in killing a helpless man and having a few thugs drag him to the executioners slab.

[The Drunkard]

1. I find myself, most of the time, rooting for the POV I'm reading, though certain Mereneese conquerors don't do anything to inspire my loyalty in them. However, I tend to have one 'main' team I'm supporting the entire time, like the Starks in the initial books, and Stannis/Night's Watch in the later books.

2. Yes. I like to think about whether what characters do is ethically good or not, no matter if I support it.

[SerStinger]

I have to comment on this: If Jon had not executed Janos Slynt, he would not have continued as Commander of the Night's Watch. Slynt deliberately disobeyed a direct order. Anyone who has ever served in the military knows this is a huge, huge deal. Jon had to deal with this, and quickly, and harshly. If he hadn't, he would have lost all control.

Jon Snow did the right thing in executing Slynt. He gave the man every opportunity to follow the order, but Slynt (and others) did not respect him or his authority (author-i-tay, as Cartman would say.). I am not wild about Jon Snow as a character, but I think he showed alot of strength in executing Slynt.

Plus, he was actively conspiring against him as well.

[mozzie7]

1. I always pick a side on the beginning and I root for them until the end. So I'm either jumping up and down from happiness or crying like a baby in the end.

2. I never think about morals of the character. They only have to be interesting for me to like them.

[Lady Storm]

1. I don't really root for characters, i just indulge in their personal story. Honestly, I don't think I could answer the question - who do you want sitting the Iron Throne? (Who is the person I want to rule over me, sure, but the Iron Throne? Have no clue).

2. Hell yes, but more as a instinctive emotional reaction than a elaborate thought process. The thought process comes later, when I'm thinking about the books, or more often, discussing them with friends (and on forum, obviously)

[Spiderweaves]

questionable acts that seem to require a reaction from us as readers.

And this is where the books get their unique charge, I think. GRRM is a master at getting me to talk back to the characters in the books, usually to ask them why on earth they did such a thing, are they crazy, etc.

The Lannisters are my favorite characters to read. Clearly, I don't let morals get in the way of my enjoyment.

[The Wight Walker]

1. Yes, although I tend to gravitate towards any character that is unique and well developed rather than just who is the most "good" or doing the coolest things.

2. Not at all, some of my favorite characters (Roose, LF, The Hound) have pretty poor ethics, but due to them being unique, and well developed characters that generally don't act out of character I enjoy to read them and like them as characters, despite maybe not liking them as people.

[tijde]

1. I'm not rooting for anyone in particular, except maybe Doran Martell. I don't really care who "wins" at the end of the story (ie Dany, Jon, etc.), but I do sometimes root for a side in the smaller conflicts. For instance, I was definitely rooting for Asha during that fight with Stannis and the clans, and not just because we were in her POV at the time.

2. I tend to think more about the author than the characters. I'll think about, say, whether Bran's character is portrayed as a Magic Cripple, and what the author may be saying directly or indirectly with his storyline. Stuff like that.

I don't particularly care for magic and such, but I continue to enjoy reading fantasy because most fantasy - at least most good fantasy - offers the reader to explore some of life's really tough and important questions from a relative place of safety. I enjoy reading regular fiction for the story but I find the fantasy genre particularly satisfying because it's like taking an ethics class.

I love horror for a similar reason, although horror tends to look more at emotional or psychological issues than ethical ones. At least, the horror I like does (usually terror or literary horror, if we want to get specific). For instance, I've read haunted house stories that were really about things like infertility, abusive relationships, struggling with one's sexuality in a repressive society, etc. In my opinion, speculative fiction often serves as our era's version of fairy tales or fables.