GRRM Bloopers

[Helgar]

"Stole" and "marry" are the same thing with the wildlings. And Tormund's exact words in ADWD are:

There's nothing in this that indicates Tormund is continuing a previous conversation, and in fact, repeating that Ryk and Munda got married "if you believe it" makes no sense here, because that's a phrase you use if you think the information you're conveying is not already known to the person you're addressing, and Jon explicitly already knows this. If I tell someone that Person A and Person B got married, then telling that same person later that Person A and Person B got married, "if you believe it", makes no sense.

That's rather convoluted... Stealing a wildling girl is not the same as marrying her; it's more like a rough wooing. Marriage is pretty much what marriage is to the south (see: Mance and Dalla). Not only that, but there's a continuity in the story. In ASoS Tormund tells us of how Munda put up quite a fight when Ryk tried to steal her. There is no such mention in ADwD. How do you explain that Munda apparently took Ryk to husband without engaging in the traditional act of knocking his teeth and blackening his eye when he tries to steal her? ADwD gives us no mention of the reaction of Munda's brothers either, whereas in ASoS we hear that the younger ones gave Ryk quite a fight. The two stories complement each other. First, Ryk tried to steal Munda; Munda's younger brothers gave Ryk a fight, and Munda herself broke a couple of his teeth and all the rest. After he succeeded in stealing her, they stayed together, as Munda liked him. A while after that, Munda took Ryk to husband, as he "treats her well enough". This is brand new information; they weren't married before then. I think you just read too deep into it. :)

[The Promised Prince]

In one of the first few chapters of Ned he mentioned that "Lord Rickard Stark was forced to watch his son Brandon being strangled before being burned alive himself.."

[tallTale]

I never understood why Syrio never picked up one of the metal swords from the initial Knight attackers during his assumed capture/slaying in AGOT

[kephv]

Jaime cups his hands to shout at Harrenhal despite there having been a rather important plot point somewhat recently making this somewhat difficult.

Same chapter actually, he manages to moan about being dressed as a knight complete with sword and dagger on his belt and then the next day jumps into a bear pit completely unarmed.

I think this is just another bit of the subtle genius of GRRM showing. Most people would probably assume that Jaime got rid of the hand from around his neck and ditched it, but most likely he'd been carrying it in his pocket for safe keeping; he still seemed really attached to it even after it was gone, even going so far as to say he felt it on him in his dream -- perhaps he really did. There hints for this that are exactly parallel -- like Davos, I'm guessing he wanted to at least keep the bones, not to mention that character set the precedent for it. Maybe that's what Melisandre meant when she mentioned a bag of fingerbones in Dance?

but how could neither Brienne or Jaime notice he has a ruddy great sword hanging off him? Always kinda ruined the moment.

It's possible he took it off and just forgot about it in his haste. He wasn't exactly thinking that far ahead when he jumped into that bear pit.

[Magnar of Thenn]

re; alliteration, the exorbitant and heavy-handed use of 'half a heartbeat' from ASoS onwards really grinds my gears. As well as the phrase 'sell *insert item here* for half a groat' being used twice in the space of two chapters and then never seen again.

[Night Gathers]

In AGOT, Jon.

When he opened his mouth to scream, the wight jammed its back corpse fingers into Jon's mouth.

GRRM described the hands being black earlier during the attack.

[fassreiter]

This one always really bothers me-

In AFFC, Sam refers to the baby with him and Gilly as a "son of Mance Rayder and a grandson of Craster", which just makes no sense. Either a terrible blooper by GRRM, an example of POV untrustworthiness from Sam, or one of Mance/Dalla is a son or daughter of Craster. All of them seem equally as unlikely. How could GRRM make such a mistake? Why would Sam have this mistaken POV for no reason? How could Dalla escape from marrying Craster and if Craster was Mance's father he wouldn't survive long enough to be taken in as a boy by the NW?

Did someone ever ask GRRM about that? It is a really strange thing to say, even if it was a blooper, because Sam is talking about blood relations here, not about appearances. The only explanation I can think of is that Maester Aemon told Sam that Mance was one of Caster's sons who was by chance rescued by the NW, and then forgot to add this scene. Or something equally convoluted. I don't know, it would make sense in a way because it explains why they can't stand each other. Also maybe GRRM wanted to explain why Mance wouldn't kill Craster, as Tormund suggested. They clearly knew he was talking to the NW. In fact, it was a really bad idea to ask him to join the wildling army, and then simply leave him be when he refused (and in a rather rude manner nonetheless). There is also the strange scene in ADWD where the bearded queen claims that Mance Rayder was the bastard son of a black brother - this is, after all, the story of Craster. Also, if what Sam thinks is true, Gilly would be Mance's sister and the switched children would be cousins - what a mess. But this could explain why Melisandre doesn't particularly care which child remains at Castle Black.

[Ciazio]

<snip>

I saw this one debated before, and the answer is...

That being the baby Craster's son/grandson for everyone but Jon, Aemon, Sam and Gilly and actually Mance's son, Sam was simply word punning.

[fassreiter]

I saw this one debated before, and the answer is...

That being the baby Craster's son/grandson for everyone but Jon, Aemon, Sam and Gilly and actually Mance's son, Sam was simply word punning.

I saw this answer before, and I don't think it is convincing. Sam is concerned with the fact that the child doesn't have his 'craven blood'. So he is explicitly talking about the child's 'inner qualities' in comparison to his own, not about the 'outward' appearance of who the child is supposed to be. If he was thinking about Craster being regarded as grandfather only in name, it doesn't make any sense in context with the sentence that the child doesn't have any of his, Sam's, craven blood. Because in this context, with Craster as fake grandfather, Sam is supposed to be the father, and therefore the child would still have his craven blood.

[Natmus]

I have a couple of geographical bloopers from the maps.

1: In the north there's a coastline called The Flint Cliffs. This area may have been named for the family the Flints, but I think it's more likely they are supposed to have been named for flint the rocky material. But flint is a sedimetary material, usually formed in hollow areas of material that eventually becomes chalk or limestone. Having entire cliffs made from flint is thus impossible, and cliffs containing flint is much more likely to be named for the chalk or limestone that dominates them. Consider the White Cliffs of Dover, how many think 'Ah, flint!' when they are mentioned?

2: The Green Fork has it's source in the lowlying swamps of the Neck and still manages to flow all the way across the Riverlands to the Bay of Crabs.

[Northern Wolf]

Spells the word colour wrong throughout the entire series.

[Ciazio]

I saw this answer before, and I don't think it is convincing. Sam is concerned with the fact that the child doesn't have his 'craven blood'. So he is explicitly talking about the child's 'inner qualities' in comparison to his own, not about the 'outward' appearance of who the child is supposed to be. If he was thinking about Craster being regarded as grandfather only in name, it doesn't make any sense in context with the sentence that the child doesn't have any of his, Sam's, craven blood. Because in this context, with Craster as fake grandfather, Sam is supposed to be the father, and therefore the child would still have his craven blood.

I'm finding this explanation quite intricate... To me it works the first answer I gave, otherwise Mance might be Craster's son (as sometimes discussed in the Heresy Thread).

Spells the word colour wrong throughout the entire series.

Color / Colour? If so, take a look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_and_British_English_spelling_differences#-our.2C_-or

[Ghost Wrytre]

While tossing and turning aboard ship at Astapor, Dany hears a FOOTBALL on the deck above her...

[fassreiter]

I'm finding this explanation quite intricate... To me it works the first answer I gave, otherwise Mance might be Craster's son (as sometimes discussed in the Heresy Thread).

Sorry to come back to this, but I don't see how this works for you? This is the quote:

Gilly thought about that. "Dalla brought him forth during battle, as the swords sang all around her. That should be his name. Aemon Battleborn. Aemon Steelsong."

A name even my lord father might like. A warrior's name. The boy was Mance Rayder's son and Craster's grandson, after all. He had none of Sam's craven blood. "Yes. Call him that."

The boy is NOT, in truth, Craster's grandson. But as soon as they pass him off as Craster's grandson, he WOULD HAVE Sam's craven blood. So the passage makes no sense unless either Dalla or Mance are children of Craster's.

[Toccs]

The boy is NOT, in truth, Craster's grandson. But as soon as they pass him off as Craster's grandson, he WOULD HAVE Sam's craven blood. So the passage makes no sense unless either Dalla or Mance are children of Craster's.

Personally I think it's just showing that Sam hasn't quite gotten his head around the baby switch yet. He still thinks of it as Gilly's child even though he knows that it is Mance's.

[fassreiter]

Personally I think it's just showing that Sam hasn't quite gotten his head around the baby switch yet. He still thinks of it as Gilly's child even though he knows that it is Mance's.

That doesn't make any sense to me either, considering the fact that they are explicitly talking about Mance's baby and how it was born by Dalla during the battle. But whatever.

[Ciazio]

Sorry to come back to this, but I don't see how this works for you? This is the quote:

The boy is NOT, in truth, Craster's grandson. But as soon as they pass him off as Craster's grandson, he WOULD HAVE Sam's craven blood. So the passage makes no sense unless either Dalla or Mance are children of Craster's.

Sorry to bother, but... Being Craster Gilly's father and the babe Gilly's and Craster's son that makes of him BOTH Craster's son and grandson (father of the baby AND father of the baby's mother).

If Sam is pretending the baby is his by Gilly (Craster's daughter) than he would have Sam's blood AND would be Craster's grandson.

Anyway, the boy is Mance's son, pretended to be Craster's OR Sam's (either way he is Craster's grandson or half grandson, being Gilly the mother).

[fassreiter]

Sorry. Maybe I am crazy. But I really don't get it.

Sorry to bother, but... Being Craster Gilly's father and the babe Gilly's and Craster's son that makes of him BOTH Craster's son and grandson (father of the baby AND father of the baby's mother).

But Sam says he is MANCE's son and Craster's granson, he doesn't say BOTH.

If Sam is pretending the baby is his by Gilly (Craster's daughter) than he would have Sam's blood AND would be Craster's grandson.

But Sam says he does NOT have Sam's blood.

Anyway, the boy is Mance's son, pretended to be Craster's OR Sam's (either way he is Craster's grandson or half grandson, being Gilly the mother).

But the boy is NOT in any way pretending to be Craster's son. The whole point of the bastard-story is to allow the boy to grow up with the Tarlys. They wouldn't allow him to live with them if they knew he was born of incest. It is vital that Sam is pretending to be the father. And in any case, Sam knows it is Mance's son. So what has Craster got to do with it anyway?

I still don't get it.

[Ciazio]

But the boy is NOT in any way pretending to be Craster's son. The whole point of the bastard-story is to allow the boy to grow up with the Tarlys. They wouldn't allow him to live with them if they knew he was born of incest. It is vital that Sam is pretending to be the father. And in any case, Sam knows it is Mance's son. So what has Craster got to do with it anyway?

I still don't get it.

Sorry, maybe it's because I'm not an english mothertongue :blushing:

Anyway "Sam knows it is Mance's son. So what has Craster got to do with it anyway?". Gilly is Craster's daughter. If Sam is pretending that the boy is him by Gilly, than the boy is Craster's grandson. Actually the boy is Mance's son. Craster's grandson and Mance's son.

So, either way the boy hasn't a drop of Sam's blood, even if he pretends the baby is his.

But, as you say, wathever :cool4:

[fassreiter]

:cheers:

Ok, I give up. I still don't see how the child can be Mance's son (by blood) AND Craster's grandson (by blood) BOTH in Sam's mind (he could be one OR the other, though, only this isn't what the text says), but... yeah.