Daenerys and the faith R'hllor

[Thendel]

Of all the candidates for being AAR, Dany is, IMO, by far the most likely. Question is, where does that leave Jon Snow and his dream of himself slaying undead with a red sword?

[Ciglon]

It's possible, but I never heard it. I just googled it and I can't seem to find anything about Martin confirming that the characters are one and the same, though. Until I do, I''m standing by my hypothesis. ;)

I think it was an offhand remark in an interview when he said "Azor Ahai, the prince who was promised" or something like that, talking about both descriptions as if the character was assumed to be one in the same, that led a lot of fans to take that as a confirmation of sorts. But he's never just sort of come out and tackled that question straightforwardly IIRC.

[gingerpunk]

I think it was an offhand remark in an interview when he said "Azor Ahai, the prince who was promised" or something like that, talking about both descriptions as if the character was assumed to be one in the same, that led a lot of fans to take that as a confirmation of sorts. But he's never just sort of come out and tackled that question straightforwardly IIRC.

I gotcha. It just seems to me that there's a lot going on with both of them, and the prophecies only seem linked when Melisandre speaks of them. I assume PwwP is a Westerosi prophecy, and strangely, we have less info on that one than on the Azor Ahai prophecy, which comes from Asshai with Melisandre- again an assumption, but the R'hllor faith comes from Asshai, I think. Could be that they are the same, truly only GRRM knows that, but I think it makes sense if Dany fulfills one and Jon Snow the other, just because it seems Dany has fulfilled much of the AA prophecy, but there is clearly more to Jon than meets the eye.

[The Lord of NightSong]

Musing here over whether the "sword" of Azor Ahai is metaphorical and not literal? Perhaps the sword is more the sort of iron resolve that it took for Dany to essentially murder her husband after accidentally giving their child's life to save him..? Idk, still a theory indev right now, but she then walks onto Drogo's pyre herself, "reforging" herself to become the "Mother of Dragons", i.e., she "birthed" her dragons, returning magic to the world, etc., etc., etc. If you look at Dany's behaviour after these events, she's always talking about how she'll lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground. She becomes militaristic in a way that she never was before: she is now a weapon. Projecting on the future, I anticipate that Dany will arrive in Westeros after winter has come and the Long Night has fallen. With her, she will bring her dragons, a source of fire to fight ice, warmth to fight cold, and light to fight darkness.

What remains to be seen via this theory is how Dany's "sword" is to be used in conquering Westeros, whether it is the literal violence that will entail killing stuff, or whether it is through abstract means, like conquering peoples' hearts rather than their bodies. Viserys commented in AGoT that the Dothraki loved her, and this was something he feared because nobody would ever love him if he were in the same position. But Dany might not be so lovable if she arrives in Westeros with the "fire and blood" attitude that has apparently caused most of this forum's members to sour on her. In Meereen, it might be that there is a sort of alloying going on, if you will, whereby she tries to reconcile the image of the conqueror with that of the mother, and create something that is much stronger, as steel is stronger than iron, i.e., a second forging of her "sword".

I might also add that there is a certain conflict that arises when you call a sword "Lightbringer", given that a sword, being a weapon to be used for killing, is more of a "death-bringer". This is why the "second forging" is necessary. Killing might be necessary to win a throne, but you need something else to sit on that throne, as we have seen already. Robert, we might say, was a "death-bringer" (note: he says at one point that all that keeps the peace under his reign is "fear and blood"). In order to be considered a "light-bringer", I would assume that Dany would need to not just be a conqueror as Robert was, but to actually have a care for the people over whom she is ruling, which is what she is developing in Essos.

What if she literally needs to forge the sword. Remember that she stills has that useless husband in Meeren that its just so asking to be killed!

[*expletivedeleted*]

I think the Braavosi will support her anti-slavery stance, given that Braavos' founders were escaped slaves.

[Ser Pollo Loco]

I think it was an offhand remark in an interview when he said "Azor Ahai, the prince who was promised" or something like that, talking about both descriptions as if the character was assumed to be one in the same, that led a lot of fans to take that as a confirmation of sorts. But he's never just sort of come out and tackled that question straightforwardly IIRC.

Actually a poster made it up, and revealed he made it up shortly before ADWD was released

[evita mgfs]

Of all the candidates for being AAR, Dany is, IMO, by far the most likely. Question is, where does that leave Jon Snow and his dream of himself slaying undead with a red sword?

Not sure if I remember with all the colors. But isn't Ice separated and reforged - and the forger tried to make it Lannister red, so is there now red in Ice? Now it has ripples of red and black. (yes - just double checked in ASoS 1009.

Maybe a possible sword in JS's dream?

Might there be some scavenger hunt among those fighting to bring the Dawn, with so many folk looking in the wrong place, not realizing that Oathkeeper and Joff's sword have to be united to have the puzzle pieces fit - and the COF's magic uber powered up for vengeance.

[The Dragon has three heads]

Re-forging the sword is a very "done" thing genre wise. I can see GRRM either using it in a new way or avoiding it to avoid tolkien esq comparisons.

Re the poster who was worried about the show combining the FM with red god worship, I think perhaps A they ment it literally, you took lives from the red god ie fire and now must pay them back Or B they are in fact condensing the pantheon so a tv audience doesn't get confused.

I worry what implications this has but also if they are not careful will actually show who is important to the overall story and who isn't.

I can't see David and Dan taking on a show and story of this scope without GRRM revealing the end game to them, otherwise they won't know what to foretell and what Is not really important...