What is Varys really upto ?

[Ser Endrew Tarth]

Clearly Varys has done much to plant Aegon is a situation where he will have a legit chance to gain the Iron Throne, now the WHY could be complicated or it could be that he will be set for life by doing this (I do think its more complicated then that).

Yes the "WHY" is what I'm having so much trouble with... It seems to me that Varys and Illyrio are already in great positions of power and comfort. It's hard for me to imagine they would risk so much with such a slim chance of success (esp w/ their level of scheming) unless there is some sort of Blackfyre/legacy/blood angle involved (tho I'm not so sure about BF theory, just doesn't fit for me yet).

[Marya]

Guys, forgive me but could you enlighten me on one point I seem to have missed:

Why did Robert keep Varys about? Just becaue he is so good at what he does and he didn't have a spymaster of his own? Or maybe what I'm asking is, what did the rebels believe was Varys' position?

[Ser Endrew Tarth]

Guys, forgive me but could you enlighten me on one point I seem to have missed:

Why did Robert keep Varys about? Just becaue he is so good at what he does and he didn't have a spymaster of his own? Or maybe what I'm asking is, what did the rebels believe was Varys' position?

Well he did pardon men that fought for Rhaegar/Aerys till the bitter end so I guess he didn't see the counsel as any kind of threat once they swore loyalty to him. Also by all accounts Varys is VERY good as master of whispers, he would have been throwing away a powerful tool.

Obviously Robert was a bit too trusting after he took the throne, he prob rushed thru all the pardons as he couldn't wait to get to whoring and drinking lol.

[Marya]

hahaha, I like the "because he got high" theory :-) No I got that song stuck in my head

Thank you, was a little worried I had missed something.

[The Dornishman's Wife]

hahaha, I like the "because he got high" theory :-) No I got that song stuck in my head

Ah, that is so much the the song for King Robert!

I was gonna clean up my realm, until I got drunk

I was gonna get up, count some coppers, but then I got drunk

My treasury's a shambles, and I know why (why man?)

- cause I got drunk, cause I got drunk, cause I got druhunk

(La da da da da da)

[Marya]

now that is just brilliant

also: sorry for steering this off topic!

[firepoet]

Guys, forgive me but could you enlighten me on one point I seem to have missed:

Why did Robert keep Varys about? Just becaue he is so good at what he does and he didn't have a spymaster of his own? Or maybe what I'm asking is, what did the rebels believe was Varys' position?

Well they knew he was the spymaster. I think the problem is every man wants a magic ball that shows the future. So even though they don't trust him, if he drops a piece of valuable info here and there, people won't get rid of him.

[Eogh]

^ Yes, he's far too useful a tool to set aside without good reason, and as was already mentioned we know Robert was a bit too trusting with the pardons. Also, Varys may have used the angle that he helped the rebel cause by fomenting dissension from within and feeding the King's paranoia.

[bent branch]

One reason that Robert would have kept Varys around is because he is Essosi. While they may not have entirely trusted Varys, he had no visible ties to other houses in the kingdom and that at least made him an apparently neutral source.

[thupple]

Varys' actions do seem quite opaque at the moment. However, there is one theory which I personally feel explains much of Varys' seemingly contradicting motivations:

Varys might be neither a Targ loyalist nor a "smallfolk loyalist", but a Blackfyre loyalist and Aegon is a Blackfyre.<snip>

There seems to be an awfully strong parallel between the end of ADWD and what Jaime and Barristan suggest his role was under Aerys: deliberately keeping someone unstable & crazy in power, and separating them from competent ppl. <snip>

Just voicing my appreciation for this thread. I haven't been out here for awhile, and have been wondering what the justification for the Aegon is A Blackfyre theory were. I was skeptical at first but it does seem sound, and more importantly ties up a lot of loose ends that have been bugging me a for a very long time.

I thought the Blackfyre theory contradicted my own theory (Aegon is Illyrio's son - period - and Varys just wants a capable ruler on the throne) but it doesn't really, not if Aegon is Illyrio's son with Serra AND Serra is a Blackfyre. I also see now that my theory did not answer all those nagging questions about why Varys "enhanced" Aerys' madness instead of deposing him, if a capable ruler is what he wanted. Honestly I think I was just so happy to have an Illyrio motive at last (Aegon is his son) that I was turning a blind eye for awhile.

If Varys is a Blackfyre and wished to - at long last! - destroy the Red Dragons once and for all, he could not have done a better or more thorough job of it...excepting for Dany of course. But how could he see that coming.

Anyway, all that I know of Varys character still holds true under this Blackfyre theory - I was thinking it would make him somehow less cynical and scheming, but it doesn't really. He can be bitter and resentful and still cynical...actually one enhances the other. And he very well might believe that he can "build a better king" and ALSO be of the Blackfyre line which believed they DID have the better king. They believed the Red Dragon line to be weak and unworthy.

The long plot also makes sense if Varys and Illyrio were referring to a hand of Aerys they assassinated when Arya overheard them conspiring. We know they didn't kill Jon Arryn, so that would make that part of the conversation suddenly make sense. And I can believe that Varys has been playing this game since his cock was cut off, slowing making his way towards his ultimate end...restoration of his line to the throne and the destruction of those who denied his forefathers. Varys is so very brilliant, and so very ruthless, and so clearly motivated by ... something. So why not this?

Perhaps the "the children" he is doing it for are the Blackfyre descendants who were murdered, abandoned, disinherited, sold into slavery. Perhaps the "child" he is doing it for is himself.

[Nebmai]

If Varys is a Blackfyre he would have king's blood in his veins, which could explain why a fire magic user defaced him for some kind of ritual way back when. Varys is one slippery customer but I don't think he was lying to Tyrion about that story, not only from his behavior when telling it but because there was nothing to be gained in lying about it to Tryion in the first place.

I do buy the Varys, Illyrio's wife and now son Aegon Blackfyre angle, I'm not convinced it will be true but all the pieces fit with it very neatly while never being spelled out too obviously either. We know Varys and Illyrio knew each other back in the day and rose to power as allies, but it is even possible that Ilyrios wife was Vary's sister or kin.

[Profion]

I think the phrase "red or black,a dragon is still a dragon" kinda gives away that Mopatis support Blackfire, and if Varys is BFF with Illyrio...