The last chapter (Sam)

[Lady Wolf]

Can anyone explain the last chapter (The one with Sam). I reread it, but I still don't get it. What exactly is going on there?

[Crown]

What is it that you don't understand?

[Lady Wolf]

What is it that you don't understand?

Well, I got the part that he arrived in Oldtown, but I don't get who is who.

[Crown]

Leo, Alleras and some others have been introduced in the prologue, by Pate who died in the end of the prologue and returned at the end of Sam's chapter. I'm not sure what there is not to understand. Specific questions could help, I read it a year ago. :P

[Ser Ilyn's Voice]

Well, I got the part that he arrived in Oldtown, but I don't get who is who.

[Contains Spoilers]

Sam is in Oldtown. He is a part of a riddle when he is waiting I believe (following the advice of Maester Aemon). And then he is taken to a Maester that is not necessarily an outcast like Qyburn but in similar displeasure with the powers that be in Oldtown. The Maester is taking the message from Sam and then running off to Danearys?? To help counsel her I believe, that is how I interpert it.

Side bar: The power struggle is not limited outside Oldtown, there is an obvious power struggle amongst the Maesters and it shows when Sam meets the most recent. My best confabulation is that the struggle stems from the different religious sects of Westeros, more particularly the “Old gods supporters” and the “New gods supporters.” You read about this outcast Maester and his burning candle of dragonglass, obviously Sam just met a Maester who supports the old gods and their ways who is also an outcast in the eyes of the powers that be.

Sam is to be trained as a Maester, and by the way it looks, of the supporters of the “Old Gods.” Need it be said he did swear his oath to the black in front of the Wierwood north of the wall with Jon Snow.

[Bad Hound!]

Before we extrapolate too much:

Sam meets someone who introduces himself as Pate. We know that Pate died in the prologue. Make of that what you want: I say whoever killed Pate has taken his place.

[Woftis]

Before we extrapolate too much:

Sam meets someone who introduces himself as Pate. We know that Pate died in the prologue. Make of that what you want: I say whoever killed Pate has taken his place.

and who has a hooked nose and can change his face :drunk:

[Ded As Ned]

[Contains Spoilers]

Sam is in Oldtown. He is a part of a riddle when he is waiting I believe (following the advice of Maester Aemon). And then he is taken to a Maester that is not necessarily an outcast like Qyburn but in similar displeasure with the powers that be in Oldtown. The Maester is taking the message from Sam and then running off to Danearys?? To help counsel her I believe, that is how I interrupt it.

Side bar: The power struggle is not limited outside Oldtown, there is an obvious power struggle amongst the Maesters and it shows when Sam meets the most recent. My best confabulation is that the struggle stems from the different religious sects of Westeros, more particularly the “Old gods supporters” and the “New gods supporters.” You read about this outcast Maester and his burning candle of dragonglass, obviously Sam just met a Maester who supports the old gods and their ways who is also an outcast in the eyes of the powers that be.

Sam is to be trained as a Maester, and by the way it looks, of the supporters of the “Old Gods.” Need it be said he did swear his oath to the black in front of the Wierwood north of the wall with Jon Snow.

What makes you think a Maester and his burning dragonglass candle is in support of the old gods? I always took the tension to be between the godless (secular, pro-science, name it what you will) faction of Grand Maesters, and Marwyn and his ilk, who are obviously believers and dabblers in the supernatural.

As to the OP, we still don't know everything that is going on in this chapter, particularly since

Samwell and Marwyn are noticeably absent from aDwD

Otherwise, we have not-Pate's game (whatever that is), Sarella's game (whatever that is), and that's about it.

[Lady Wolf]

and who has a hooked nose and can change his face :drunk:

Yes, I got the Jaqen part.... :)

[Ser Ilyn's Voice]

What makes you think a Maester and his burning dragonglass candle is in support of the old gods?

Good point. The whole time I have been reading these books I have noticed a power struggle (like most books). But this struggle has qwerks that you don't even see, and ones that you see that aren't even there. I guess I made this assumption due to the New Gods coming after the Others were sentenced to reside north of the wall. Therefore, the old gods were still heavily worshipped in Westeros and dragon glass being a weapon used against the Others my assumptions just got lumped together. Once I finish ADwD, I am sure I will have a different opinion.

[Ded As Ned]

Good point. The whole time I have been reading these books I have noticed a power struggle (like most books). But this struggle has qwerks that you don't even see, and ones that you see that aren't even there. I guess I made this assumption due to the New Gods coming after the Others were sentenced to reside north of the wall. Therefore, the old gods were still heavily worshipped in Westeros and dragon glass being a weapon used against the Others my assumptions just got lumped together. Once I finish ADwD, I am sure I will have a different opinion.

Actually, that's a very good answer to my question. I had never put it together like that, but I see your logic, and (strangely for this forum) it makes sense. I can totally see how the dragonglass candles = Old Gods Item, whereas before I always thought dragonglass candles = dragon / fire magic. Which, of course, it is entirely possible that it all comes around that dragon / fire magic relates to the old gods as well. A new line of thinking I'll have to flesh out at a later time.

[JonSnow4King]

yeah I'm pretty sure "Pate" is now Jaqen, apparantly on some mission having to do with the maesters and/or the Citadel.

[silentwanderer]

I'm pretty sure "Pate" is now Jaqen, apparantly on some mission having to do with the maesters and/or the Citadel.

Nope, the prologue was very clear Pate is dead and now undead in the same terms as Catelyn/Lady Stroneheart. Much like the obsidian candles, magic is awaken all over the Citadel.

Hence why Pate was not allowed inside the Citadel any more than the maester that left as soon as he heard Sam's story.

[Steinnis]

Nope, the prologue was very clear Pate is dead and now undead in the same terms as Catelyn/Lady Stroneheart. Much like the obsidian candles, magic is awaken all over the Citadel.

Hence why Pate was not allowed inside the Citadel any more than the maester that left as soon as he heard Sam's story.

It took me a while to be convinced of the Jaqen theory, But I'm now a firm believer. The guy from the prologue matches the description of Jaqen when he leaves Arya at HH, after he changed his face. Then when Pate asks him who he is in the prologue, the alchemist replies ''A stranger. No one. Truly.''

When Arya gets to Braavos, the kindly man asks her ''who are you'' and Arya replies ''No one.'' As the faceless men have to leave their previous identities behind, and carry out assasinations based on a contract; not who they want dead.

Jaqen took Pates face and is now posing as ''Pate.'' Plus he has a key that opens every door in the Citadel, I think he's gathering intel for the FM regarding dragon lore.

[silentwanderer]

I think the guy that died in the prologue was revealed to be the Undead helping the maester that actually helped Sam because the same 'condition' that aflicted Beric, Catelyn and Coldhands is spreading across the Narrow Sea.

It would be far more effective if no one is doing anything about it, than a faceless man taking the face of the only apprentice that is not allowed in the Citadel.