Whent, Dayne and Hightower - Kingsguard Elite? A myth?

[Maia]

I think it's safe to assume that Ned's pretty good; Jaime didn't have a super-easy time stabbificating him to death, at least. We don't have all that much information about the ToJ.

What on earth are you talking about? Ned never fought Jaime. Jaime tried to provoke him into a duel, but Ned refused, reminding Jaime that Tyrion's life would be forfeit if Ned was killed. Then Jaime ordered his guardsmen to kill Ned's men, but spare Ned. Ned was hurt in the resulting fight, trying to protect Jory and the other guardsmen.

Don't mistake the TV series for the books. Stannis never was the first man over the walls either, nor was he in action during the Battle of the Blackwater at all.

What we know about Ned's fighting abilty is that he was a competent fighter for his age and class. And, of course at the ToJ he would have been battle-hardened after a year of war. Bronze Yohn Royce defeated him very decisively in a friendly spar, though.

Howland Reed couldn't defend himself from 3 squires at the HH Tourney. Yet he can be effective in a fight against the 3 greatest knights of the time?

Remember, that killing or seriously injuring these squires was not an option. It is exponentially more difficult to fight to disable somebody, than to kill them. Particularly if you are physically smaller and outnumbered.

What i think happened would have been Ned and his companions dismounting, as to give the Kingsguard a fair fight. Ned holds those three Kingsguard, espically Arthur Dayne, very highly in his memory, so he probably did that.

Why? It is not like Ned was interested in offering them a fair fight and let the best men win. It is not chivalric to attack 7 on 3 in any case. Giving up the advantage of mounts would have been just stupid, without any redeeming aspect to it.

I have to say that it never made sense to me that the household guards are supposed to be less than soldiers. On the contrary, they and the sell-swords are the only professional soldiers in Westeros. Who else is there? In battle, they are the "armored lances", the elite bodyguard of the lord. During peace, they do nothing but train and guard. They should be equivalently skilled to most knights. In fact, for rich paramounts like Lannisters or Tyrells or Arryns, a lot of them should _be_ landless/minor knights.

So, yea, the Syrio fight scene made zero sense, IMHO.

City guard are different - they are basically constables and most of their time is spent patrolling the streets and keeping order. Even so, they should be much better trained than majority of the levies, who are not household guards.

And it always seemed strange to me that there were so few minor knights in the City Watch of KL. i mean, it isn't like there were tons of alternative job opportunities for them and after Robert's Rebellion and the Greyjoy Rebellion a lot of relatively lowborn folks must have been knighted for valor.

[Tokyo Towers]

I know people say Ned was an average swordsman, but when reading the books, I got the impression he was decent in a fight. Or atleast that he could stand his ground and fight better than the average swordsman. Judging from the forums, I guess I was wrong(?).

[Shane the Llama]

What on earth are you talking about? Ned never fought Jaime. Jaime tried to provoke him into a duel, but Ned refused, reminding Jaime that Tyrion's life would be forfeit if Ned was killed. Then Jaime ordered his guardsmen to kill Ned's men, but spare Ned. Ned was hurt in the resulting fight, trying to protect Jory and the other guardsmen.

Don't mistake the TV series for the books. Stannis never was the first man over the walls either, nor was he in action during the Battle of the Blackwater at all.

What we know about Ned's fighting abilty is that he was a competent fighter for his age and class. And, of course at the ToJ he would have been battle-hardened after a year of war. Bronze Yohn Royce defeated him very decisively in a friendly spar, though.

Remember, that killing or seriously injuring these squires was not an option. It is exponentially more difficult to fight to disable somebody, than to kill them. Particularly if you are physically smaller and outnumbered.

Why? It is not like Ned was interested in offering them a fair fight and let the best men win. It is not chivalric to attack 7 on 3 in any case. Giving up the advantage of mounts would have been just stupid, without any redeeming aspect to it.

I have to say that it never made sense to me that the household guards are supposed to be less than soldiers. On the contrary, they and the sell-swords are the only professional soldiers in Westeros. Who else is there? In battle, they are the "armored lances", the elite bodyguard of the lord. During peace, they do nothing but train and guard. They should be equivalently skilled to most knights. In fact, for rich paramounts like Lannisters or Tyrells or Arryns, a lot of them should _be_ landless/minor knights.

So, yea, the Syrio fight scene made zero sense, IMHO.

City guard are different - they are basically constables and most of their time is spent patrolling the streets and keeping order. Even so, they should be much better trained than majority of the levies, who are not household guards.

And it always seemed strange to me that there were so few minor knights in the City Watch of KL. i mean, it isn't like there were tons of alternative job opportunities for them and after Robert's Rebellion and the Greyjoy Rebellion a lot of relatively lowborn folks must have been knighted for valor.

You're right about Stannis not being the first over the walls, but he did see some action during the Battle of the Blackwater. He mentioned later that Lightbringer served him no better than an ordinary sword in the battle.

City guards are unlikely to be better than levies. Lords are not simply arming and armoring their farmers; the soldiers are typically trained before they face combat. The household guards are not the same as the bodyguards that lords are protected by during battles. Battle bodyguards are made up of minor nobility and skilled retainers; Robb's honor guard is a good example.

[Shane the Llama]

I know people say Ned was an average swordsman, but when reading the books, I got the impression he was decent in a fight. Or atleast that he could stand his ground and fight better than the average swordsman. Judging from the forums, I guess I was wrong(?).

Ned's combat skills were average (or possibly a bit better) for a nobleman. He would definitely be better than the majority of swordsmen though, and his exceptional equipment (highest quality plate armor and Ice) would augment his edge over the average soldier.