FInal Showdown for the Crown

[Fire Eater]

I started this thread for people to find how the Jon-Cersei clash will go down. I have some ideas.

AFfC

"And the king is just a boy," said the oldest of the four septas. "Who is to rule us until he comes of age?"

"Lord Tywin's brother," said a guardsman. "Or that Lord Tyrell, might be. Or the Kingslayer"

Kevan has had his brief rule, he will be followed briefly by the Hand, Mace Tyrell, now that Kevan is dead. Jaime will later become Cersei's Hand of the King after Mace Tyrell dies in battle.

Jaime will be the last to run the crown before the king who is no longer a boy and has come of age, Jon, takes the throne. It will be interesting how he will respond to learning R+L=J.

AGoT

and watched his direwolf devour the chicken.

Dogs moved between the tables, trailing after serving girls. One of them, a black mongrel bitch with yellow eyes, caught a scent of the chicken. She stopped and edged under the bench to get a share. Jon watched the confrontation. The bitch growled low in her throat and moved closer. Ghost looked up, silent, and fixed the dog with those hot red eyes. The bitch snapped an angry challenge. She was three times the size of the direwolf pup. Ghost did not move. He stood over his prize and opened his mouth, baring his fangs. The bitch tensed, barked again, then thought better of this fight. She turned and slunk away, with one last defiant snap to save her pride.

"Queen Cersei and Queen Margaery are fighting over the little king like two bitches with a chicken bone"

Cersei is a Baratheon by marriage so her colors are by tradition the Baratheon house colors: black and gold (yellow). The standoff between Ghost and the bitch is foreshadowing for the showdown between Jon and Cersei. She is called a bitch several times throughout AFfC and ADwD, with some people calling her "the bitch queen".

Jon will come to claim the throne that is being held by Cersei, and like the bitch, Cersei will know the war is lost for her, but will pull one last stunt before she dies to hollow out the victory for Jon's side, akin to when she planned to have Sansa killed at the BoBW if KL fell so that the Starks would take no joy in the Lannisters' fall. She will burn down KL to spite her enemies and protect her pride.

ADwD The story of Torgon the Latecomer:

"But the king was old and Torgon restless, so it happened when his father died he was raiding along the Mander from his stronghold on Greyshield.

Torgon can be taken to be a metaphor for Jon here. When the king died, Torgon was at Greyshield on the Shield Islands. When the king, Robert, died, Jon was with the NW at the Wall which includes the fort of Oakenshield, named for the island in the Shield Islands.

His brothers sent no word to him but quickly called a kingsmoot, thinking that one of them would be chosen to wear the driftwood crow. But the captains and the kings chose Urragon Goodbrother to rule instead.

After the king died, Torgon's brothers held a kingsmoot thinking they would be king, but someone else ruled the throne instead. After Robert died, his brothers, Stannis and Renly, helped to start the War of the Five Kings for the Crown thinking one of them would be king. Cersei rules the Crown instead of them as Queen.

The first thing the new king did was command that all the sons of the old king be put to death, and so they were. After, that men called him Badbrother, though in truth they'd been no kin of his. He ruled for almost two years."

Urragon's first act was to have all the sons of the old king put to death, and ruled for almost two years. One of Cersei's first commands as Queen Regent was to have all of Robert's natural children put to death. Cersei's rule as Queen Regent will be about two years by the end.

Asha remembered now. "Torgon came home . . ."

" . . . and said the kingsmoot was unlawful since he had not been there to make his claim.

Torgon pressed his claim saying that the decision of the kingsmoot was illegal, being that since he was at Greyshield, and the true heir to throne, and he hadn't been able to make his claim since he was ignorant of his father's death. Jon is at the Wall, and despite being the true heir to the Iron Throne, he didn't press his claim during the war because he was at the Wall fighting the Others, and he is ignorant of his heritage.

Badbrother proved to be as mean as he was cruel and had few friends left upon the isles. The priests denounced him, the lords rose against him, and his own captains hacked him into pieces. Torgon the Latecomer became king and ruled for forty years."

Cersei proves to be a mean and cruel ruler in AFfC, and she is isolating and making enemies out of friends and allies, and it is no surprise she currently has few friends left. The HS has imprisoned her and will have her tried, and he will if he already hasn't, denounce her. The lords are rising against her as of towards the end of ADwD with the Northern lords, lords of the Reach, Stormlands and Dorne wih other Targ loyalists I haven't mentioned. Cersei will be killed by her own captain of the KG, Jaime. Jon OTOH will enjoy a long reign.

Any other clues in the books found for the the final showdown?

[Lion of Judah]

I'm a fan of the idea because I think Dany is the younger more beautiful queen to take everything from Cersei. Her and Jon's stories are destined to cross paths, which leads me to believe that they may team up to some capacity. Also Cersei's plans always have a way of blowing up in her face, she intended on sending 100 men to the NW to assassinate Jon and those plans never came to fruition because she chose to fight with Margery over Tommen. I believe she will come to regret not following through with her original plans to kill Jon.

[Fire Eater]

I'm a fan of the idea because I think Dany is the younger more beautiful queen to take everything from Cersei. Her and Jon's stories are destined to cross paths, which leads me to believe that they may team up to some capacity. Also Cersei's plans always have a way of blowing up in her face, she intended on sending 100 men to the NW to assassinate Jon and those plans never came to fruition because she chose to fight with Margery over Tommen. I believe she will come to regret not following through with her original plans to kill Jon.

She will come to hate the Starks more, especially Lyanna. She'll be jealous that Rhaegar eloped with Lyanna, and angry at Lyanna for setting off the chain of events that led to Rhaegar's death and Cersei marrying Robert. Not to mention that Jon is a Lannister's worst nightmare: with relations to both families that the Lannisters had wronged the most.

As for Jaime, I think this will cause confusion for him, bringing up feelings of guilt with his dream in the bowels of CR with Brienne where Rhaegar tells him "I left my wife and children in your hands." Jaime couldn't find it in himself to harm Rhaegar's son, especially someone like Jon. Serving his rightful king may be a factor in him killing Cersei along with Cersei trying to kill Brienne out of jealousy and burning KL to the ground.

[Lion of Judah]

She will come to hate the Starks more, especially Lyanna. She'll be jealous that Rhaegar eloped with Lyanna, and angry at Lyanna for setting off the chain of events that led to Rhaegar's death and Cersei marrying Robert. Not to mention that Jon is a Lannister's worst nightmare: with the relations to both families that the Lannisters had wronged the most.

As for Jaime, I think this will cause confusion for him, bringing up feelings of guilt with his dream in the bowels of CR with Brienne, with Rhaegar telling him "I left my wife and children in your hands." Jaime couldn't find it in him to harm Rhaegar's son, especially someone like Jon. Serving his rightful king may be a factor in him killing Cersei along with Cersei trying to kill Brienne out of jealousy and burning KL to the ground.

I could see Cersei going the Mad King route and trying to burn Kings Landing to the ground. It seems like everything will come full circle with Jamie killing her as he did the Mad King out of a sense of duty to Rhaegar's son. I have seen much talk about Jamie's redemption, in my eyes this would redeem him.

[NorthSouthEastWesteros]

As for Jaime, I think this will cause confusion for him, bringing up feelings of guilt with his dream in the bowels of CR with Brienne, with Rhaegar telling him "I left my wife and children in your hands." Jaime couldn't find it in him to harm Rhaegar's son, especially someone like Jon. Serving his rightful king may be a factor in him killing Cersei along with Cersei trying to kill Brienne out of jealousy and burning KL to the ground.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Ahem.... :agree:

[TalalOfDorne]

I think it could be between (Assuming no new contenders appear):

Cersei & Aegon

Cersei & Dany

Stannis & Cersei

Stanni Dany

Though I doubt the last two are likely

[wolfshield]

I could see Cersei going the Mad King route and trying to burn Kings Landing to the ground. It seems like everything will come full circle with Jamie killing her as he did the Mad King out of a sense of duty to Rhaegar's son. I have seen much talk about Jamie's redemption, in my eyes this would redeem him.

Yes, I see this as the fulfillment of Maggy the Frog's prophecy:

The old woman was not done with her, however. "Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds," she said. "And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you."

[Fire Eater]

Aegon the Conqueror was about to lead his forces to Dorne only to have King Torrhen Stark come down on the riverlands in the rear with his Northern army. After Torrhen is dealt with, Aegon decides to leave Dorne alone.

Tyrion described Dany as "Aegon the Conqueror with teats" and Dany ascribes herself to such; she may be about to head for KL after Aegon is dealt with only to have Stannis and his army of Northmen come down into the riverlands in Dany's rear (no pun intended). After Dany faces him in battle, it can be assured that she never conquers KL; that will be Jon's doing.

[Tumnas the Torpid]

I could see Cersei going the Mad King route and trying to burn Kings Landing to the ground. It seems like everything will come full circle with Jamie killing her as he did the Mad King out of a sense of duty to Rhaegar's son. I have seen much talk about Jamie's redemption, in my eyes this would redeem him.

Don't get me wrong; there is no shortge of reasons to hate Cersei. Nevertheless, I feel like Jaime killing this woman - his sister, his lover, and the mother of his children - will be more damnation than redemption.

[Lion of Judah]

Don't get me wrong; there is no shortge of reasons to hate Cersei. Nevertheless, I feel like Jaime killing this woman - his sister, his lover, and the mother of his children - will be more damnation than redemption.

I could definitely see it as damnation as well, but after Cersei loses everything death might be a mercy of sorts.

[Ser Vallon Snow]

Has anyone thought of Jon being the Valonqar? After all he would be the youngest of Rhaegar's children thus "the little brother". Assuming he is Rhaegar's son and heir.

[Tumnas the Torpid]

I could definitely see it as damnation as well, but after Cersei loses everything death might be a mercy of sorts.

I take your point. If Myrcella and Tommen both die, Cersei might want to join them.

Has anyone thought of Jon being the Valonqar? After all he would be the youngest of Rhaegar's children thus "the little brother". Assuming he is Rhaegar's son and heir.

Interesting! It would involve a mistranslation from the Valyrian, but that is par for the course.

[Fire Eater]

Has anyone thought of Jon being the Valonqar? After all he would be the youngest of Rhaegar's children thus "the little brother". Assuming he is Rhaegar's son and heir.

I cannot die while Cersei lives, he[Jaime] told himself. We will die together as we were born together.

We will leave this world together, as we once came into it.

"If he were dead, I would know it. We came into this world together, Uncle. He would not go without me."

"He was your twin, your shadow, your other half, another voice whispered. Once, perhaps, she thought. No longer. He has become a stranger to me.

I [Cersei] should have had the sword not him.

"Prince Aemon the Dragonknight cried the day Princess Naerys wed his brother Aegon," Sansa Stark said, "and the twins Ser Arryk and Ser Erryk with tears on their cheeks after each had given the other a mortal wound."

We know Prince Aemon the Dragonknight and Princess Naerys is a parallel for Jaime and Cersei; I think the latter part of Sansa's sentence foreshadows them killing each other. I think while Jaime is strangling Cersei to death she will take his sword from his scabbard and mortally wound him; killing each other tearfully.

[Lion of Judah]

I cannot die while Cersei lives, he[Jaime] told himself. We will die together as we were born together.

We will leave this world together, as we once came into it.

"If he were dead, I would know it. We came into this world together, Uncle. He would not go without me."

"He was your twin, your shadow, your other half, another voice whispered. Once, perhaps, she thought. No longer. He has become a stranger to me.

I [Cersei] should have had the sword not him.

"Prince Aemon the Dragonknight cried the day Princess Naerys wed his brother Aegon," Sansa Stark said, "and the twins Ser Arryk and Ser Erryk with tears on their cheeks after each had given the other a mortal wound."

We know Prince Aemon the Dragonknight and Princess Naerys is a parallel for Jaime and Cersei; I think the latter part of Sansa's sentence foreshadows them killing each other. I think while Jaime is strangling Cersei to death she will take his sword from his scabbard and mortally wound him; killing each other tearfully.

I had to get on you for this, but I feel as though I just read a romance novel.

[Fire Eater]

I had to get on you for this, but I feel as though I just read a romance novel.

In that case what kind of romance novels do you read where the two lovers kill each other?

[Lion of Judah]

In that case what kind of romance novels do you read where the two lovers kill each other?

Not the act of killing each other, but the idea of dying together strikes me as romantic. There was a movie with Ryan Gossling where he died at the same time as his wife and my gf couldn't stop crying about the idea. I slept through the darn movie, but her crying woke me up.

[Sofia Aillard]

Not the act of killing each other, but the idea of dying together strikes me as romantic.

I really see ASOIAF as a romantic fantasy novel. Have you read Elio and Linda's essay on Beyond the Wall ( THE PALACE OF LOVE, THE PALACE OF SORROW - Romanticism in A Song of Ice and Fire)?

She will come to hate the Starks more, especially Lyanna. She'll be jealous that Rhaegar eloped with Lyanna, and angry at Lyanna for setting off the chain of events that led to Rhaegar's death and Cersei marrying Robert. Not to mention that Jon is a Lannister's worst nightmare: with relations to both families that the Lannisters had wronged the most.

And there is Allen's reference to the "Luke Skywalker thing": Jon coming up to Cercei saying he is Lyanna's boy and Cercei goes NOOOOOOOOOO! :laugh:

Seriously though... Some time ago I read someone saying that Jon would most probably be fighting for the Others side (ice court) and will meet Dany in battle and bla bla bla, he ends up diyng for the good of the realm of men he remembers he swore to protect. While I can't see that coming to life, it got me thinking "oh gods, that is as "bittersweet" as it gets and should fit right into Martin's idea of not beeing obvious". So for now, I'm singing up for your theory Fire Eater and leave the "bittersweetness" for the Dany lovers.

[Young Nan]

why would there even BE a final clash between Jon and Cersei. Even if Cersei survives her trial, I think her days of "clashing" with anyone are over. The best she can hope for is to quietly slink back to casterly rock and live out the rest of her days in disgrace.

[Ser Arthyr Dracenstein]

why would there even BE a final clash between Jon and Cersei. Even if Cersei survives her trial, I think her days of "clashing" with anyone are over. The best she can hope for is to quietly slink back to casterly rock and live out the rest of her days in disgrace.

Varys killed Kevan Lannister so that Cersei will resume her mis-rule of King's Landing. Kevan would otherwise have sent Cersei back to Casterly Rock.

[Young Nan]

Varys killed Kevan Lannister so that Cersei will resume her mis-rule of King's Landing. Kevan would otherwise have sent Cersei back to Casterly Rock.

I doubt that Kevan's death will put Cersei back on the throne. Mace Tyrell or somebody will take over.