Theon & the taking of Winterfell

[juanml82]

Yeah I know, what I'd meant was, why didnt Mikken think "Maybe I should pretend to submit to these idiots, considering Im one of the only guys with access to weapons and all, and later help everyone else take back the castle"

As opposed to :

"Hmmm, Ironborn, in the castle, long pointy spears, what to do, what to do ... I know! Ill insult them repeatedly!!!"

well, we can asume Mikken was also hit by the idiocity epidemic which hit Westeros at some point and left Westeros filled with idiots.

But yes, there should have been open rebellion once Then claimed to have killed the boys

[Penguin king]

True enough, but unless Theon had ten guys out the front of Bran and Rickon's door every day, it would still be possible. Difficult, but not impossible to kill them all surely.

Especially if someone half-cluey had the good sense to go murder the (probably two) guards at Bran and Rickons room during dinner. Where's the hooded man when he could have actually been useful?

Possible, but why take the risk? If you fail not only do you lose your life, but quite possibly the lives of your family as well. Hell, Theon had two Starks, he might even have killed Rickon to set an example. I don't think Robb would have been pleased if his people tried to retake the castle, but one of his brothers died in the attempt

The thing is, They all knew Rodrik Cassel was out there with his army. He'd taken most of the fit and able boddied men. Most of the people left behind weren't guards they were stableboys and kitchen staff, women and children. Why should they be expected to risk their lives to oust Theon, when sooner or later the real troops would arrive, and the Ironborn would be outnumbered 30 to 1

[Penguin king]

well, we can asume Mikken was also hit by the idiocity epidemic which hit Westeros at some point and left Westeros filled with idiots.

But yes, there should have been open rebellion once Then claimed to have killed the boys

What idiocy epidemic? Mikken's a blacksmith not a strategist. He's not paid to think, he's paid to hit things with a hammer.

[Ser Edmure Tully]

Possible, but why take the risk? If you fail not only do you lose your life, but quite possibly the lives of your family as well. Hell, Theon had two Starks, he might even have killed Rickon to set an example. I don't think Robb would have been pleased if his people tried to retake the castle, but one of his brothers died in the attempt

The thing is, They all knew Rodrik Cassel was out there with his army. He'd taken most of the fit and able boddied men. Most of the people left behind weren't guards they were stableboys and kitchen staff, women and children. Why should they be expected to risk their lives to oust Theon, when sooner or later the real troops would arrive, and the Ironborn would be outnumbered 30 to 1

Well for one, they could risk their lives to prevent exactly what happened from happening...

Theon taking a hostage and hanging one at sunrise and one at sunset (it was both wasnt it?) until the army disperses? I know he didnt get around to it, but of Ramsay hadnt appeared you can be bet he would have hanged Beth Cassel and others.

Or the civilian populace rebelling could prevent Theon from fleeing and putting Winterfell, and consequently, their homes, to the torch?

And even though they're all stable boys and smallfolk, the population of Winterfell and the Wintertown would have to mean they outnumbered the ironborn at least 10-1 already, if not 20-1.

Once the Stark kids are "dead" or even when they're not, would it have been that hard for the 500+ population of Winterfell to seize it back?

[Penguin king]

Well for one, they could risk their lives to prevent exactly what happened from happening...

Theon taking a hostage and hanging one at sunrise and one at sunset (it was both wasnt it?) until the army disperses? I know he didnt get around to it, but of Ramsay hadnt appeared you can be bet he would have hanged Beth Cassel and others.

Or the civilian populace rebelling could prevent Theon from fleeing and putting Winterfell, and consequently, their homes, to the torch?

And even though they're all stable boys and smallfolk, the population of Winterfell and the Wintertown would have to mean they outnumbered the ironborn at least 10-1 already, if not 20-1.

Once the Stark kids are "dead" or even when they're not, would it have been that hard for the 500+ population of Winterfell to seize it back?

The people of winterfell aren't soldiers, they're not john mcclane from Diehard. They're just ordinary people. You can't expect them to rise up and risk their lives. Especialy when all the brave and the bold went south with Robb, and the best of the rest went with Cassel's force. Theon's men have swords, spears and ringmail. The people of winterfell have sticks, rocks and butcher's cleavers. If they rise up people will die.

Theon gave no sign of fleeing or burning down the castle. The situation looked stable. Why rock the boat and risk making things worse. On 9-11 the people of United Airlines Flight 93 rushed their hijackers and prevented the plane being crashed into a building at the expense of their own lives. Those people were heroes, but they were the exception not the rule. On 3 other flights the passengers did nothing, or if they did their attempts were unsuccesful. In most hostage situations, the hostages just sit back and let their captors get on with things. Without strong leadership you can't expect people to risk their lives in a co-ordinated attack.

It's not a plot hole or an idiocy epidemic, it's just basic human psychology.

[Greenseer_Wolf]

The people of winterfell aren't soldiers, they're not john mcclane from Diehard. They're just ordinary people. You can't expect them to rise up and risk their lives. Especialy when all the brave and the bold went south with Robb, and the best of the rest went with Cassel's force. Theon's men have swords, spears and ringmail. The people of winterfell have sticks, rocks and butcher's cleavers. If they rise up people will die.

Theon gave no sign of fleeing or burning down the castle. The situation looked stable. Why rock the boat and risk making things worse. On 9-11 the people of United Airlines Flight 93 rushed their hijackers and prevented the plane being crashed into a building at the expense of their own lives. Those people were heroes, but they were the exception not the rule. On 3 other flights the passengers did nothing, or if they did their attempts were unsuccesful. In most hostage situations, the hostages just sit back and let their captors get on with things. Without strong leadership you can't expect people to risk their lives in a co-ordinated attack.

It's not a plot hole or an idiocy epidemic, it's just basic human psychology.

:agree: