Melisandre and Three-Eyed-Crow's motives

[SerWest]

The following is a quote from Melisandre about looking into the flames:

“ A face took shape within the hearth. Stannis? she thought, for just a moment . . . but no, these were not his features. A wooden face, corpse white. Was this the enemy? A thousand red eyes floated in the rising flames. He sees me. Beside him, a boy with a wolf’s face threw back his head and howled.

It's obvious that she sees Bloodraven, who she marks as her enemy. Now she views him as her true enemy (The Great Other) but could it be that Bloodraven is just her enemy because he knows about her and who she is? Or just knows more in general and holds more power than her?

However let's look at a quote form the Three-Eyed-Crow to Bran:

“ "The strongest trees are rooted in the dark places of the earth. Darkness will be your cloak, your shield, your mother’s milk. Darkness will make you strong." ^[3] ”

There were always rumors of Bloodraven dealing in sorcery and here he seems to confirm that he knows about dark magic. But how could a man who has ties to the weirwood and the children of the forest be in a league with The Others?

So what do you think....is Bloodraven working for he good of the realm to kill The Others or could he be working with them? I know this has been discussed before but I'm more interested in people theorizing what these quotes mean to them....

[mindchap]

Bloodraven is good, IMO, his character in general is a good guy, the sorcery is mostly smallfolk rumors which he lets spread, because as he once told Maekar it is better to be frightening than frightened. He was not a big strong guy so I think he uses the rumors to make himself seem badder than he really is. I think he is working for the greater good, it just fits with his character, but whether anyone knows or appreciates all he's done is another story. He's my favorite character either way.

Mel on the other hand I'm not so sure about. Since we got her POVs we now know that she's not even 100% sure of the things she sees, so she could be inadvertently doing more harm than good. ie burning weirwoods

[SerWest]

Bloodraven is good, IMO, his character in general is a good guy, the sorcery is mostly smallfolk rumors which he lets spread, because as he once told Maekar it is better to be frightening than frightened. He was not a big strong guy so I think he uses the rumors to make himself seem badder than he really is. I think he is working for the greater good, it just fits with his character, but whether anyone knows or appreciates all he's done is another story. He's my favorite character either way.

Mel on the other hand I'm not so sure about. Since we got her POVs we now know that she's not even 100% sure of the things she sees, so she could be inadvertently doing more harm than good. ie burning weirwoods

Why then does BR mention dark powers to Bran? It seems he is aware of something darker than normal magic.

[mindchap]

Because the children live in the dark, Greenseers live in the dark because that's where the trees root. He's not telling Bran to stay away from light just trying to point out that he should not fear the darkness. How are you going to fight a race that only moves at night if you are afraid of darkness?

[JonSnowisthebeesknees]

Darkness doesn't have to mean evil magic, i.e. the nights watch. I agree BR is generally trying to be helpful towards the goals of bran and the world of men. However my knowledge of the history of greenseers and the children of the forest is limited.

Melisandre I feel like she wants to help fulfill the prophecy (AAR) and serve her god, nothing more. Whether or not she is competent in this respect is uncertain, especially after reading her POVs.

[SerWest]

Because the children live in the dark, Greenseers live in the dark because that's where the trees root. He's not telling Bran to stay away from light just trying to point out that he should not fear the darkness. How are you going to fight a race that only moves at night if you are afraid of darkness?

You make a good point here.

[mindchap]

If you can get a hold of the D&E tales the third one, The Mystery Knight, has some good insight into Bloodraven's character. He's really a fairly decent guy.

[Gizzelle]

As we've seen from a number of Melisandre's previous interpretations of her visions, if she marks Bloodraven out as a potential enemy it's almost guaranteed they'll be allies.

Martin has laboured hard to make the point that she gets it wrong. Often.

[mindchap]

As we've seen from a number of Melisandre's previous interpretations of her visions, if she marks Bloodraven out as a potential enemy it's almost guaranteed they'll be allies.

Martin has laboured hard to make the point that she gets it wrong. Often.

Exactly, and welcome.

[Night'sQueen]

The following is a quote from Melisandre about looking into the flames:

“ A face took shape within the hearth. Stannis? she thought, for just a moment . . . but no, these were not his features. A wooden face, corpse white. Was this the enemy? A thousand red eyes floated in the rising flames. He sees me. Beside him, a boy with a wolf’s face threw back his head and howled.

It's obvious that she sees Bloodraven, who she marks as her enemy. Now she views him as her true enemy (The Great Other) but could it be that Bloodraven is just her enemy because he knows about her and who she is? Or just knows more in general and holds more power than her?

However let's look at a quote form the Three-Eyed-Crow to Bran:

“ "The strongest trees are rooted in the dark places of the earth. Darkness will be your cloak, your shield, your mother’s milk. Darkness will make you strong." ^[3] ”

There were always rumors of Bloodraven dealing in sorcery and here he seems to confirm that he knows about dark magic. But how could a man who has ties to the weirwood and the children of the forest be in a league with The Others?

So what do you think....is Bloodraven working for he good of the realm to kill The Others or could he be working with them? I know this has been discussed before but I'm more interested in people theorizing what these quotes mean to them....

I also highlighted and compared those two passages wondering who's right / who's wrong and who's good / who's evil. After reading all the books a second time I am now of the opinion the Melisandre (who I thought was evil because of all the burning) is just misguided (dangerously so).

It seems that Bloodraven by his association with CotF is genuinely working in the interest of mankind. When he first meets Bran he says "the hour is late." That seems to mean late if you want to help in this fight. Later Leaf says of Bloodraven, "He has lived beyond his mortal span, yet he lingers. For us, for you, for the realms of men." This doesn't feel like misdirection on GRRM's part. It seems genuine.

Melisandre in a way is as limited in scope as the men of the NW. She doesn't realize that there is more than one way to be on the side of good.

[lady m]

Why then does BR mention dark powers to Bran? It seems he is aware of something darker than normal magic.

He doesn't talk about 'dark powers' he talks about not fearing the darkness. There's actually a parallel between what he says about darkness and what Mel says about light and shadows.

[TheLastTarg]

"wooden face, corpse white" is a reference to the black gate. Darkness could just be metaphor for remaining unseen. Even if bloodraven was a scumbag (which i don't believe he was after reading the dunk and egg stories) becoming the last greenseer with semi-omnipresence has to change your views just a little lol

[Mathor]

Well, I think it's worth noting the contrast of Azor Azhai and Melisandre's view of darkness and shadows. It seems to me that Bloodraven is saying that it will be Bran's. Doesn't that lead more to the notion that Bran is, in fact, The Great Other?

Since we still do not know much about The Others, let alone if there is even an existence of a Great Other, I do not think we can immediately assume that the Others are necessarily evil.