Another AAR theory

[Ser Pigeon Pie]

It seems to be the talk of the forum at the moment, but reflecting on the story of Azor Ahai got me thinking about another side of the AAR theory, mainly on the forging of Lightbringer.

My apologies if this topic has been covered in the past, but a quick search turned up nothing similar.

The main idea comes from the story of the forging of the Hero's Sword, where it states that Azor Ahai:

"labored for thirty days and thirty nights until it was done. However, when he went to temper it in Water, the sword broke. He was not one to give up easily, so he started over. The second time he took fifty days and fifty nights to make the sword, even better than the first. To temper it this time, he captured a Lion and drove the sword into its heart, but once more the steel shattered. The third time, with a heavy heart, for he knew before hand what he must do to finish the blade, he worked for a hundred days and nights until it was finished. This time, he called for his wife, Nissa Nissa, and asked her to bare her breast. He drove his sword into her breast, her soul combining with the steel of the sword, creating Lightbringer."

This struck me as a very integral part of the journey to become AAR. It translates to me as a set of 3 challenges the chosen one must face before he will have the power to combat the Others. It seems the first two he will fail, against obstacles of water, a lion, and finally Nissa Nissa. The symbolism to the events happening now be definitely be considered a classic GRRM foreshadowing. I will break down who I believe represent these challenges:

The first challenge states the sword is tempered in Water, and brakes. It terms of houses it could really only represent 3 of the great houses in Westeros; the Greyjoys (Kraken), the Tullys (trout), or the Manderlys (merman). My theory leans more towards the Greyjoys just because they seem to be slowly spreading their fingers over all the main characters plot arcs. Now if we count the 3 most likely candidates of being AAR; Stannis, Jon Snow, or Dany and you match up the most likely encounter it would go like this:

Stannis - Very involved with the Greyjoys, having destroyed their fleet and capturing Great Wyk back in the time of Robert's Rebellion, and currently holding the fates of young Asha and Theon his hands.

Jon - Not sure on this one. Although the Greyjoys are close by it seems unlikely that they will meet, at least for some time. And it seems pretty far-fetched to consider Euron or Victarion to be visting the Wall any time soon.

Dany - Victarion seems to be pretty close by, and Euron's curiosity with her dragons is only going to get stronger as time goes on. I definitely see either one crossing paths with Dany in the future.

The second challenge sees Azor Ahai test his sword on a Lion, which shattered after attempting to drive it into its heart. This seems like only one likely candidate for this; the Lannisters. And the fact that they are heavily involved in the story can certainly justify a "challenge" for AAR to overcome. Using the same 3 candidates we will analyse who would best fit into this role:

Stannis - The Lannisters have certainly been a thorn in Stannis' backside. After attempting a storm of King's Landing he was unsuccessful when a last minute arrival by Tywin himself saw them running back to Dragonstone with their tails between their legs. You could easily use this as a representation of Azor Ahai attempting to drive the sword into the "heart" of the lion. However the quest for the IT is not over, and any encounter in the future would be a test for Stannis.

Jon - Again, being stuck at the Wall doesn't give Jon much opportunies to socialise. But he certainly has a lot of beef with the Lions, after the murder and attempted murder of his family. I'm sure he would jump at the chance to drive a sword through their heart.

Dany - Well, we know the little lion is close by. And we know that she doesn't know he's there yet but it is pretty inevitable that they will meet properly in the next book. Also relating to Dany's prophecy that she sees "a white Lion running through grass taller than a man" which could be Tyrion considering the grass to be normal sized and the Lion small. So it is very plausible that Dany will be involved with at least one of the Lannisters in the future.

I'm not really going to touch on the Nissa Nissa part of the theory, because there are already too many suggestions on who that may be. All I think is that it will be someone very close to the chosen one, and it will come as a great personal sacrifice and a hard loss to complete the final test before transforming into AAR.

Looking back through the facts and taking in to consideration the idea that it is a foreshadowing of things to come, it would really make Jon the least likely candidate IMO as AAR. The order I see it as is:

Dany - The signs all point to her with both Greyjoy and Lannister about to influence her future while presenting possible challenges she may have to face. Maybe Aemon had the rigt idea after all..

Stannis - It's easy to see where Melisandre was coming from with the idea of Stannis as AAR, especially if she saw the same representation. Nowadays though, I'm not so convinced. His path is starting to sway from the AAR, even though I think his part is still a crucial part to play in the fight against the Others.

Jon - I don't know, maybe he can still come off as AAR. Knowing GRRM he could still very possibly be a very strong candidate and many of the signs (and the fans) still point to him as the chosen one.

What is your opinion on this? Is there anyone else you can think of who will fit the bill?

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

I think AAR will be different people fulfilling different parts of the prophecy.

[mankytoes]

I didn't think anyone actually thought it was Stannis?

[Ser Pigeon Pie]

I didn't think anyone actually thought it was Stannis?

Melisandre did. It is known.

[mankytoes]

Melisandre did. It is known.

She seems to be out on a limb a little. I love Stannis but there's basically nothing in the text to support that theory. Flipping Victarion is more likely.

[Ser Pigeon Pie]

She seems to be out on a limb a little. I love Stannis but there's basically nothing in the text to support that theory. Flipping Victarion is more likely.

I was really basing it on Melisandre's initial idea of Stannis being AAR. But he, he seems unlikely now. GRRM could do the big turn around and actually make him AAR, which would actually annoy me a little.

[Roadside Rose]

Needle for Lightbringer. :commie:

[Lord Puff Fish]

Needle for Lightbringer. :commie:

:agree:

[tommystinker]

Read a post about a theory of gendry forging lightbringer and tempering it on lady stoneheart..

Gendry seems to be a important caracter especially in the tv series ( also being edric strom) and he has some targ blood. The sword could be oathkeeper re forged with either jamie or briennie tempering it through LS.

[jet199]

My first post so be nice, please.

I also think the Lightbringer legend relates to Westeros houses but I don't think Lightbringer is necessarily a sword, rather a tool to defeat The Others. It could even be a person. Also when the sword shatters that would represent the tool failing. Winterfell was taken over by the Ironmen who were represented a a flood of water but I can't see the Lannisters coming north so I assume Winterfell won't be Lightbringer. I think we need to look for an thing or person who fails against the Ironmen and the Lannisters but then destroys what the person using it/them loves best. Also I think that this will happen before the identity of AA comes to light as Mel says:-

There will come a day after a long summer when the stars bleed and the cold breath of darkness falls heavy on the world. In this dread hour a warrior shall draw from the fire a burning sword. And that sword shall be Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes, and he who clasps it shall be Azor Ahai come again, and the darkness shall flee before him.

It's a bit like the sword in the stone.

[Not Tony Stark]

I really hope(not want) it would be Stannis just to see how people would react to Melisandre actually being right the first time.

But when I read your theory, all I can think of was, oh god... Tyrion. Water being the Tullys when he was taken and put on trial, Lion being how the Lannisters mistreated him(and put on trial too), and Nissa Nissa could be Tysha, Shae or some others we haven't heard about. Please no.

[jet199]

I've had another thought come to me about the houses. Stannis has put a flaming heart on his banner so he may be Nissa Nissa. It may not be that AA needs to kill what they love as Nissa Nissa could also relate to a coat of arms.

[daario's man]

I'm becoming more and more convinced that we won't find out for definite who AAR/TPtwP are, I'm not saying they won't exist but the actual confirmation won't happen and we'll be kept guessing.

[daario's man]

I really hope(not want) it would be Stannis just to see how people would react to Melisandre actually being right the first time.

But when I read your theory, all I can think of was, oh god... Tyrion. Water being the Tullys when he was taken and put on trial, Lion being how the Lannisters mistreated him(and put on trial too), and Nissa Nissa could be Tysha, Shae or some others we haven't heard about. Please no.

Using the OP reasoning this makes the most sense that I can think of.

[The Dornishman's Wife]

I'm becoming more and more convinced that we won't find out for definite who AAR/TPtwP are, I'm not saying they won't exist but the actual confirmation won't happen and we'll be kept guessing.

That belief is growing in me as well. At least it would mean we still have something to discuss about when the series is over :)

[Morienthar]

I think AAR will be different people fulfilling different parts of the prophecy.

This,More or less.

I've been Harking people to consider this for the better part of the year.

[Ser Pigeon Pie]

I really hope(not want) it would be Stannis just to see how people would react to Melisandre actually being right the first time.

But when I read your theory, all I can think of was, oh god... Tyrion. Water being the Tullys when he was taken and put on trial, Lion being how the Lannisters mistreated him(and put on trial too), and Nissa Nissa could be Tysha, Shae or some others we haven't heard about. Please no.

My next idea for AAR was definitely Tyrion! If you consider possible future events it still works pretty well. With Victarion on the horizon it seems pretty likely they will encounter each other possibly in the next book. And we know he still has unfinished business with the rest of his family, a slight I don't think he will forget any time soon. So it would be perfectly reasonable for Tyrion to be AAR, but it still seems pretty far-fetched at least for the time being. Maybe things will change in tWoW, but for now his plot is not really going down that road..

[Ser Pigeon Pie]

I've had another thought come to me about the houses. Stannis has put a flaming heart on his banner so he may be Nissa Nissa. It may not be that AA needs to kill what they love as Nissa Nissa could also relate to a coat of arms.

Yes it very much could be the final test for whoever will emerge as AAR, and we definitely know of a few people who will fit the bill in that department.

[Tormund'sMember]

Hi guys, long time lurker, first time poster.

It seems to me that the forging of the sword is somewhat similar to the story of another sword.

I think it's referring to the sword formerly known as Ice. With Ice broken and reforged, it's not entirely unlikely that Oathkeeper will soon be plunged into the heart of a lion (Jaime). After that, though, who knows? Maybe if Jon takes up the lordship of Winterfell, Brienne could give the sword to him?

[Wolf in Hallowed Places]

Interesting...I'm not convinced by water representing Greyjoys though...seems odd that it would say 'lion' for Lannister, then be overly obscurant for Greyjoy. This makes me think that 'water' doesn't represent a house, but could be more literal. Jon's battle at Hardhome (if he makes it there...) against 'dead things in the water' could possibly be seen as tempering a sword in water...

But overall, I'm very much of the opinion that we won't see these prophecies explicitly fulfilled, they will remain ambiguous, just as GRRM has confirmed that we won't ever directly encounter any 'gods', so their very existence remains in question. Think of the 3 leeches for the kings - it's impossible to say whether the magic 'worked' or if those events would have come to pass anyway. I think there will be shades of AAR et al in several characters, as many readers and posters have identified.

I like Jet199's idea of the flaming heart representing Nissa Nissa - but remember that the flaming heart is not only Stannis's sigil, but the symbol of the cult of R'hllor as a whole - so perhaps 'Nissa Nissa' could be Melisandre, or even the temple of R'hllor in Volantis - this is the 'heart' of the cult - perhaps AAR must destroy the temple to 'forge' Lightbringer.

I think it's referring to the sword formerly known as Ice. With Ice broken and reforged, it's not entirely unlikely that Oathkeeper will soon be plunged into the heart of a lion (Jaime). After that, though, who knows? Maybe if Jon takes up the lordship of Winterfell, Brienne could give the sword to him?

Did you read the theory someone posted a few days ago about Ice/Oathkeeper being Lightbringer? It's mentioned upthread. Worth a read if you haven't.