In defense of King Bob

[Sister without Banners]

The sole reason I like Robert is that he didn't really want to be king. I know that sounds like a strange reason to like a character, but somehow it makes up for some of his flaws. When I first read AGOT I thought the drinking, joking, lusting king was a great character. Then I read again and realised Robert was actually pretty violent and amoral, and stopped liking him. What changed my mind slightly is how little he actually wanted the throne. I like the idea that out of all the people fighting and scheming over the Iron Throne, the one person who has it doesn't want it. It seems like after the death of Aerys somebody had to be king, and on this one occasion Robert put duty before his own desires. He also knew that he wasn't a very good ruler - he was relieved when Ned told him he was at least better than Aerys. So Robert was a flawed and often unlikeable person, but to me his lack of greed for the throne goes some way to redeeming him.

[Hallyington]

King Bob is love, King Bob is life.

[Lummel]

Eh... cherrypicking much? You pick partial or flawed arguments (seriously, I've never seen anyone claiming that it was Robert who had Rhaegar's children killed), and that is supposed to make Robert look better? He is not a villain as such but he is a weak-willed, morally lacking person and an incompetent ruler. Most of the time, he doesn't have it in him to own his mistakes or make tough decisions and he runs away from responsibility.

Entirely. Bob's reign was a sticking plaster that didn't resolve the question of post targaryen governance and created a whole new set of tensions which allowed the realm to split after his death.

Smart enough to realise he was an appalingly bad king, too lazy and undisciplined to surrender power to someone more capable.

Robert would be remembered as a great king within the small folk...

Aerys II is also remembered tenderly by the smallfolk. It's a very low hurdle, there are even people who believe in good king Joff.

[Sansa_Stark]

Entirely. Bob's reign was a sticking plaster that didn't resolve the question of post targaryen governance and created a whole new set of tensions which allowed the realm to split after his death.

Smart enough to realise he was an appalingly bad king, too lazy and undisciplined to surrender power to someone more capable.

Aerys II is also remembered tenderly by the smallfolk. It's a very low hurdle, there are even people who believe in good king Joff.

What tensions?

The North, Riverlands, Stormlands and Vale were almost entirely loyal to Robert's reign and the lords in those regions who weren't all had their power reduced greatly. The Lannisters were also in to support a "Baratheon" regime.

Only Dorne and the Iron Islands had any real tension. The latter has tried for independence twice before at least and Dorne didn't even split after Robert's death.

And the Reach? They had no real tension with King Robert either. Seeing as how they went so quickly to support Renly, and then Joffrey and then Tommen to leech onto a "Baratheon" king.

The reason why the kingdom split is because of Cersei's dumbass decisions. And I have never seen anyone claim that Joffrey was even a little bit liked after his reign.

[Lummel]

tensions between the baratheon brothers and the other successors. The realm was splitting before Cersei did anything.

Joff got a clean slate for being just a boy, in Tyrion IX ACOK it is his evil counsellors that get the blame for all the wrong doings.

[King Robert's Warhammer]

Bob should have kept Stannis closer. They would have been some team together but alas...

Additionally he should have properly grieved for for Lyanna before being pushed into marriage with Cersei. Could have been a great King.

[Sansa_Stark]

tensions between the baratheon brothers and the other successors. The realm was splitting before Cersei did anything.

Joff got a clean slate for being just a boy, in Tyrion IX ACOK it is his evil counsellors that get the blame for all the wrong doings.

1. Tensions between Stannis and Joffrey were only had because Joffrey is a bastard. If Robert had a true heir Stannis would have 0 problem. Thus completely Cersei's fault.

2. Tensions were there between Renly and the Lannisters. But Renly only rebelled because she had Robert murdered.

"Strike! Now, while the castle sleeps." Renly looked back at Ser Boros again and dropped his voice to an urgent whisper. "We must get Joffrey away from his mother and take him in hand. Protector or no, the man who holds the king holds the kingdom. We should seize Myrcella and Tommen as well. Once we have her children, Cersei will not dare oppose us. The council will confirm you as Lord Protector and make Joffrey your ward."

Ned regarded him coldly. "Robert is not dead yet. The gods may spare him. If not, I shall convene the council to hear his final words and consider the matter of the succession, but I will not dishonor his last hours on earth by shedding blood in his halls and dragging frightened children from their beds."

Lord Renly took a step back, taut as a bowstring. "Every moment you delay gives Cersei another moment to prepare. By the time Robert dies, it may be too late . . . for both of us."

This seems to make it very clear that it was pretty much Cersei being a horrible person that led Renly to rebellion by kingship.

He wanted Joffrey as king at first but only changed his mind because Ned didn't agree with his plan

3. Renly and Stannis had issues. But Renly did not give up the crown because he needed the Tyrells. If he named Stannis king, the Tyrells would go to the Lannisters to have Joffrey and Margaery marry so she could be queen.

Really the only point, and Renly rebelling probably wouldn't have happened if King Bob lived a longer life.

And people still hated Joffrey. They called him King Bastard and commented that his sense of justice was "savage"

Point is though that Cersei was the one to cause most of the "tension" in the kingdom and created a situation where existing, meager tensions led to serious issues.

[Morienthar]

Bane says something in Dark Knight rises that is perfect for Bob.

"Peace has cost you of your strength.

Victory has defeated you"

Post war Bob was just a Broken man.

[enoofu]

Renly only rebelled because Stannis had zero support in the 7 kingdoms, except some of the lands around DS

Everyone in KL, and all 7 LP, hated Stannis with passion after Ned died

Stannis army was largely sellswords and pirates which were bought

[Lummel]

1. Tensions between Stannis and Joffrey were only had because Joffrey is a bastard. If Robert had a true heir Stannis would have 0 problem. Thus completely Cersei's fault.

2. Tensions were there between Renly and the Lannisters. But Renly only rebelled because she had Robert murdered.

...

Point is though that Cersei was the one to cause most of the "tension" in the kingdom and created a situation where existing, meager tensions led to serious issues.

The point is that King Bob was the one with the most agency in Westeros. He is the one in the leadership position, but he chooses neither to provide leadership, to be a leader nor to completely hand over power to some one else.

He is perfectly satisfied to let things drift and allow over people, like Cersei, to fill that power vacuum that he creates. Trying to pin the blame on Cersei is just another way to blame King Bob. If he had been bothered, she would have been powerless.

[TalalOfDorne]

He is perfectly satisfied to let things drift and allow over people, like Cersei, to fill that power vacuum that he creates. Trying to pin the blame on Cersei is just another way to blame King Bob. If he had been bothered, she would have been powerless.

One of my favorite things about Cersei is that she at least tried to rule, even if she did make some "WTF Decisions".

[Aethermancer]

That's true, indebted is not the same as bankrupcy. However, it doesn't mean that the debt wasn't huge and wouldn't cause problems in the future.

To be fair, the only reason it was a problem in the future was because of Joffrey and Cersei.

[Aethermancer]

One of my favorite things about Cersei is that she at least tried to rule, even if she did make some "WTF Decisions".

I wouldn't say she tried to rule. She tried to dominate.

[Sansa_Stark]

The point is that King Bob was the one with the most agency in Westeros. He is the one in the leadership position, but he chooses neither to provide leadership, to be a leader nor to completely hand over power to some one else.

He is perfectly satisfied to let things drift and allow over people, like Cersei, to fill that power vacuum that he creates. Trying to pin the blame on Cersei is just another way to blame King Bob. If he had been bothered, she would have been powerless.

And what Cersei did was done in secret and wasn't something that could be foreseen. People like Barristan and Renly didn't see it. Stannis didn't either until a long time. Even if he bothered to take responsibility Cersei would have still had him fooled. Its easy to blame him since we are looking at the situation from outside eyes and multiple POVs. But the fact is, Cersei's deception was what caused the problems. If Robert discovered the incest, she would be dead, no questions asked and he would have taken responsibility to bring Cersei down.

I mean, Cersei did seem to do her duty in bringing Robert an heir. What was he supposed to do? Just have Cersei murdered for no reason? She has power through her Lannister birth and without knowledge of the incest(which wasn't obvious) there was little he could have actually done to her.

[Hukthagz]

Bob was a pretty crappy person. I used to think that he was just a drunken sot, but his drunken diatribe about how it's more merciful to kill a crippled animal than letting him live, literally raping Cersei then blaming it on wine, verbally abusing Stannis and shaming him at his wedding by fucking on their wedding bed, being an absymal and exploitative best friend, letting the serving woman to be sold to slavery etc are all hallmarks of evil.

[Lummel]

When we look at King's Bob rule there is more going on that just Cersei making babies with Jaime. That is just one symptom of Bob's entire lack of interest even at the most basic level of either making an accommodation with his wife or putting her aside. Instead, he sat back and let things drift.

Cersei taking advantage of the power vacuum is the reason why there were so many Lannister in key positions in Kings Landing, or why Jaime was proposed for Warden of the East or Tywin to foster Sweetrobin. All of that happens purely because Bob couldn't be bothered. Yet at teh same time was prepared to give up rule by delegating completely or abdicating.

[Sansa_Stark]

When we look at King's Bob rule there is more going on that just Cersei making babies with Jaime. That is just one symptom of Bob's entire lack of interest even at the most basic level of either making an accommodation with his wife or putting her aside. Instead, he sat back and let things drift.

Cersei taking advantage of the power vacuum is the reason why there were so many Lannister in key positions in Kings Landing, or why Jaime was proposed for Warden of the East or Tywin to foster Sweetrobin. All of that happens purely because Bob couldn't be bothered. Yet at teh same time was prepared to give up rule by delegating completely or abdicating.

The only thing that the Lannister's had power in was Jaime getting the WOTE title. Which was probably an empty title considering the Vale lords hate the Lannisters, and the Stormlords fought against them as well. And as I recall Robert does not decide who Sweetrobin goes to, Lysa does. The other positions the Lannisters had were to be Bob's squires....which means they had 0 political power.

The only person in the small council who was a Lannister pawn was Pycelle and he was there way before Cersei's influence. Point is, Cersei wanted Jaime to become hand....didn't quite turn out the way she wanted, didn't it?

[N/A]

The point is that King Bob was the one with the most agency in Westeros. He is the one in the leadership position, but he chooses neither to provide leadership, to be a leader nor to completely hand over power to some one else.

He is perfectly satisfied to let things drift and allow over people, like Cersei, to fill that power vacuum that he creates. Trying to pin the blame on Cersei is just another way to blame King Bob. If he had been bothered, she would have been powerless.

How do you suggest he hands it off? Lottery tickets

It's a monarchy, you don't just hand it off, especially with he situation he had, all sons are underage, one brother is hated the other incompetent and greedy and handing the crown to another family while heirs of the same bloodline still live , it's basically destroying the monarchy as it is based on the holiness of royal blood, that or the right of conquest, which is not really better than what we had

[Sansa_Stark]

Exactly. Joffrey is next in line for the crown according to law in his view. He can't just ignore Joffrey to give it to his brothers. That would cause problems with the Lannisters.

And like I said, he is well aware of Joffrey and Cersei's natures. Of course he wouldn't want them in power.

[The Duke]

Additionally he should have properly grieved for for Lyanna before being pushed into marriage with Cersei. Could have been a great King.

He didn't care about Lyanna, he cared that someone took something he saw as his. He is the spoiled kid who didn't get his shiny new toy. While his "love" was kidnapped and "being repeatedly raped" he whored, fought, and partied all throughout the rebellion. He calls that time the best in his life, that he never felt more alive.

One of my favorite things about Cersei is that she at least tried to rule, even if she did make some "WTF Decisions".

True, she may be a psychotic, narcissistic, power mad monster, but at least she gave a damn.