In defense of King Bob

[Morienthar]

True, she may be a psychotic, narcissistic, power mad monster, but at least she gave a damn.

She was just gathering more and more power to herself,not particularly giving a damn about anything else.

[The Duke]

She was just gathering more and more power to herself,not particularly giving a damn about anything else.

Hey, if everyone would have just worshipped her obvious superiority and properly bent to her will, it would have been all good. ;)

[TheMysteriousOne]

2. Robert had Aegon and Rhaenys killed.

LOL, what rational person has ever argued this? It seems like you're only bringing up flawed arguments and not addressing legitimate arguments against Robert. Robert condoned the murder of these innocent children, it would've been, arguable, political suicide to put Tywin on trial for this, but Robert didn't even have the decency to have Gregor Clegane and Amory Lorch, two monsters (and hardly people of any political importance), executed for their crimes. And all because they were 'dragonspawn' in Robert's eyes.

Disgusting.

[Sansa_Stark]

LOL, what rational person has ever argued this? It seems like you're only bringing up flawed arguments and not addressing legitimate arguments against Robert. Robert condoned the murder of these innocent children, it would've been, arguable, political suicide to put Tywin on trial for this, but Robert didn't even have the decency to have Gregor Clegance and Amory Lorch, two monsters (and hardly people of any political importance), executed for their crimes. And all because they were 'dragonspawn' in Robert's eyes.

Disgusting.

There have been a few who have argued this. From what I've seen.

[King Robert's Warhammer]

He didn't care about Lyanna, he cared that someone took something he saw as his. He is the spoiled kid who didn't get his shiny new toy. While his "love" was kidnapped and "being repeatedly raped" he whored, fought, and partied all throughout the rebellion. He calls that time the best in his life, that he never felt more alive.

True, she may be a psychotic, narcissistic, power mad monster, but at least she gave a damn.

He certainly seems to care when he's at the Winterfell Crypts. Don't you think? Ned doesn't doubt him and it enforces his own love for Robert.

I don't for a minute deny Bob was selfish and his whoring is unsavoury but it was a part of him and he's not perfect. If Bob truly didn't really care for Lyanna then he should have been delighted with Cersei the ultimate trophy wife and moved on quite readily. That didn't happen though.

[enoofu]

LOL, what rational person has ever argued this? It seems like you're only bringing up flawed arguments and not addressing legitimate arguments against Robert. Robert condoned the murder of these innocent children, it would've been, arguable, political suicide to put Tywin on trial for this, but Robert didn't even have the decency to have Gregor Clegane and Amory Lorch, two monsters (and hardly people of any political importance), executed for their crimes. And all because they were 'dragonspawn' in Robert's eyes.

Disgusting.

Those kids would of been Pawns in another war that would of killed many innocent children

[Jory Cassel]

Those kids would of been Pawns in another war that would of killed many innocent children

what are you implying, the possibility of a future war justifies child murder?

There are so many scenarios in which the children could've grown up peacefully, either without knowing their parents in one of the free cities, or as wards/hostages like Brynden took Daemon II., which btw could've prevented another hypothetical war, as Viserys could not make his claim while the "rightful" claimant is still alive.

[TheMysteriousOne]

Those kids would of been Pawns in another war that would of killed many innocent children

How does this address my post, in any way? I said that Robert condoned the murder of these children, and he justified it by essentially reducing them to something less than human. Robert had nothing to do with their deaths, but he absolutely could have gotten them justice, or at least the closest thing, by executing Gregor Clegane and Amory Lorch, two monsters of hardly any political significance, unlike Tywin Lannister (I understand that it would've been, arguably, political suicide to kill such a powerful Lord). Instead, Robert looked at these dead innocent children and justified their deaths by calling them dragonspawn and basically rewarded Tywin's behavior, by letting Gregor and Amory go free. Again, I say, disgusting.

[The Witch King of Braavos]

How does this address my post, in any way? I said that Robert condoned the murder of these children, and he justified it by essentially reducing them to something less than human. Robert had nothing to do with their deaths, but he absolutely could have gotten them justice, or at least the closest thing, by executing Gregor Clegane and Amory Lorch, two monsters of hardly any political significance, unlike Tywin Lannister (I understand that it would've been, arguably, political suicide to kill such a powerful Lord). Instead, Robert looked at these dead innocent children and justified their deaths by calling them dragonspawn and basically rewarded Tywin's behavior, by letting Gregor and Amory go free. Again, I say, disgusting.

While his condoning of the murders are undoubtedly unforgiveable and beyond redemption, executing Clegane and Lorch would've been a pointless and dangerous move, despite it being justice. IMO Tywin would not have accepted the execution of two of his loyal and useful bannerman, and the last thing the Seven Kingdoms needed was a Lannister rebellion, that could've done huge damage considering the weakened state of the other kingdoms. Or maybe he would've accepted it and and justice would've been served. I've always thought Bob was a tragic case, so many events that that messed him up.

[Winter's Knight]

Because Tywin Lannister'd go to war over Lorch and Gregor. Right.

[Drexyon7]

Because Tywin Lannister'd go to war over Lorch and Gregor. Right.

Robert's claim was pretty perilous up until the Greyjoy Rebellion. Robert had just won the throne if he would've immediately ordered the deaths of Tywins bannermen Tywin might've sunk his hounds on Bob! Robert was surrounded by a lion's pride any wrong move and they might've devoured him.

[David Selig]

Robert's claim was pretty perilous up until the Greyjoy Rebellion. Robert had just won the throne if he would've immediately ordered the deaths of Tywins bannermen Tywin might've sunk his hounds on Bob! Robert was surrounded by a lion's pride any wrong move and they might've devoured him.

Robert would've crushed Tywin pretty easily,

[Drexyon7]

Robert would've crushed Tywin pretty easily,

Right after he won the Throne? yeah because everyone *coughReach/Dorne/Ironborncough* were so loyal to him. Once Ned left for WF Robert was left with Targ loyalists and the Lannisters. Not a good place to be in. Jon Arryn immediately set up the Cersei/Robert wedding for a reason anything less and Tywin might've ended Bobs reign prematurely.

[Winter's Knight]

Right after he won the Throne? yeah because everyone *coughReach/Dorne/Ironborncough* were so loyal to him. Once Ned left for WF Robert was left with Targ loyalists and the Lannisters. Not a good place to be in. Jon Arryn immediately set up the Cersei/Robert wedding for a reason anything less and Tywin might've ended Bobs reign prematurely.

Tywin might have had the Tyrells on their side but that's all; Do you really believe that Dorne would not support Robert against the man responsible for the the deaths of Elia and her children,especially when siding with him'd get them Tywin's head?

[Lord of Beyond the Wall]

I've noticed on this board that many try to vilify King Robert and try to paint him in a way that makes him seem so much worse than he actually is. If you ask a fair amount of people, many will claim that Robert is worse than Cersei and that there are quite a few misconceptions about his character.

Note: I will not justify or defend his treatment of Cersei. Those were vile things he did, but I don't think it means he is a monster. He's just a person, like the rest of us, with faults and qualities. His abuse towards towards Cersei was DEFINITELY a fault and isn't something that can be defended, no matter how horrible Cersei is.

1. Robert wanted Daenerys killed out of spite.

Nope. Robert wanted Daenerys killed because he was afraid of Drogo. Some would still argue that his decision at that point was still terrible, some will argue that it was justified. I won't argue for either side as they both have their points and weaknesses, but I will argue against the fact that Robert wanted her killed out of spite.

Lets look back to the beginning of AGOT.

"I should have had them both killed years ago, when it was easy to get at them, but Jon was as bad as you. More fool I, I listened to him.”

You could argue that it was Jon's influence that stopped Robert from killing them. But then you could also argue that it was Bob's morals that stopped him from having them killed as well. How much control did Jon Arryn have over Robert? Not enough to replace Janos Slynt and not enough to take out incredible amounts of loan. Its not like they were an active threat to his kingdom at that time. So the answer probably is is that Robert knew deep down that killing Daenerys(and Viserys) was wrong and didn't order it. He had so much to gain if they died early, but loss nothing if they did die. Think about what the results would be if it were Tywin or Cersei in charge. Both Dany and Viserys would have been dead YEARS ago unless Varys interferes.

2. Robert had Aegon and Rhaenys killed.

Nope. That was all Tywin Lannister.

“Have you forgotten Princess Rhaenys and Prince Aegon?”

“Never. That was Lannister work, Your Grace.”

According to Barristan Selmy.

"They whisper that the gods are punishing us for the sins of your House-for your brother’s murder of King Aerys, for the butchery of Rhaegar’s children, for the execution of Eddard Stark and the savagery of Joffrey’s justice. Some talk openly of how much better things were when Robert was king, and hint that times would be better again with Stannis on the throne. in pot-shops and winesinks and brothels, you hear these thingsand in the barracks and guardhalls as well, I fear.”

So even in universe its pretty much considered a "Lannister crime" and not a Baratheon one.

Now, I do realize that Robert's reaction towards their deaths was disgusting. But if he did not order Daenerys death until she had a Dothraki army with her, I don't think Robert could order the deaths of Rhaenys and Aegon. He was not a monster.

3. Robert was completely irresponsible.

He was mostly irresponsible. He did not help his bastard children and ignored his "children" by Cersei.

“Let me tell you a secret, Ned. More than once, I have dreamed of giving up the crown. Take ship for the Free Cities with my horse and my hammer, spend my time

warring and whoring, that’s what I was made for. The sellsword king, how the singers would love me. You know what stops me? The thought of Joffrey on the throne, with Cersei standing behind him whispering in his ear. My son. How could I have made a son like that, Ned?”

Deep down Robert realizes that his "son" is a monster and that there is something wrong with Cersei as well. He could have said f*** it and left for the Free Cities and left the realm to Cersei and Joffrey....which would have been a complete disaster. Robert was basically a symbol of peace in the realm. As long as he was alive the realm held together. Joffrey's ascension would cause SO MANY problems, especially with Cersei at his ears.

Sorry to breaking this news to you but the whole Baratheon's dinasty as the supposed Royal Familie is build over the bodies of the children. All those theories about "right of conquest" are just big ball of BS, the only reason why Robbert Baratheon was put in the IT is because the two drops of Targaryen blood that ran in his veins placed him in the line of succession. From the Wiki of Ice and Fire:

After all the rebels were united, it was decided they would stand behind Robert, whose grandmother had been the daughter of King Aegon V Targaryen, [b]giving him the best claim to the throne outside of Aerys, his children and grandchildren.[/b]

So, in order to have any sign of legitimacy Robert Baratheon have to kill all Targaryen's children, beginning with Aegon and Rhaenis, I find absurd that Robert didnlt know of the actions of the Lannisters after the sack of KL. The point of Stannis Baratheon's mission in Dragonstone was to kill the legitimite King Viserys and the Princess Danaerys because while those children live he'd never be the legitimate King of Westeros. When Darry took Viserys and Dany away from the usurpers Robert blame Stannis and give Storm's End to Renly .

[The Witch King of Braavos]

Because Tywin Lannister'd go to war over Lorch and Gregor. Right.

No, Tywin Lannister would go to war because of what he would see as a direct affront to

his house, and because the weakened state of the seven kingdoms gave him many oppurtunities.

Tywin might have had the Tyrells on their side but that's all; Do you really believe that Dorne would not support Robert against the man responsible for the the deaths of Elia and her children,especially when siding with him'd get them Tywin's head?

The Tyrells were still among the most powerful lords in the Seven Kingdoms, especially if some of their bannermen joined them.