Fred Saberhagens "Books of Swords"

[Shieldbreaker]

Greetings!

I am an avid fan of science fiction, and, as of late, high fantasy as well. Fred Saberhagens series "Books of Swords" And "Books of Lost Swords" have both (although it is not high fantasy, just fantasy). I can reccomend these books to any fans of fantasy, by the way, well written, decent cut mythology, decent, quite believable characters, though not as fleshed out and morally gray as in ASOIAF. The world is okay, the backstory behind it extremely intresting, most books sort of wrap up in themselves and are rather archetypical stories though.

However, as I am progressing through the books, which were written before ASOIF, by the way...I notice some odd similarities. Could Fred Saberhagens work have been an inspiration to George R. R. Martin?

For starters, the most obvious is that in both worlds of fantasy, where magic reigns supereme, there are indestructible swords sought out by those in power. The art of forging these swords has died with an ancient, idiolized power that died rather unexpecedly. Main characters of books fall like leaves. There are more intresting similarities that are less obvious and way harder to point out, though there are major differences, like the overall way more optimistic world outlook in Saberhagens series, or the much smaller amount of characters with believable psychological trobulations.

Personally, I have not heard of any 3rd universe that has magic, indestructible swords, so I just found these similarities intresting. Any thoughts of anyone, maybe I am way off track, not being too experienced in high fantasy? :P

[williamjm]

Personally, I have not heard of any 3rd universe that has magic, indestructible swords, so I just found these similarities intresting. Any thoughts of anyone, maybe I am way off track, not being too experienced in high fantasy? :P

I've read some of Saberhagen's books and I'm struggling to see much more than general similarities, the Swords are very different to anything we've seen in Westeros (which is a bit of a pity, who wouldn't want to see Arya getting her hands on Farslayer?).

Rare, magic swords are a common feature in fantasy, and I think Valyrian Steel swords like Ice sound more like swords such as Tolkien's Glamdring, Sting or Orcrist - swords forged by a civilisation long ago destroyed in a cataclysm.

[thecryptile]

I just finished reading these a few weeks ago, they're awesome books and very entertaining. I don't think GRRM was influenced by Saberhagen however, it's more likely that the few similarities result from both authors having "drunk from the same well" of inspiration.

Personally, I have not heard of any 3rd universe that has magic, indestructible swords,

Spoilers for The Third Book of Swords & Lost Swords

The swords aren't indestructible- by the end of the series all of them save one (Woundhealer) are destroyed.

Any thoughts of anyone, maybe I am way off track, not being too experienced in high fantasy? :P

One big difference is that the Book of Swords is sort of, kind of, Science Fiction- in the prequel series, Empire of the East, magic (The Change) is explained as resulting from the machinations of an AI supercomputer. Spoiler for Empire of the East

The Dead God Ardneh was a computer. Its name is really Automatic Restoration Director – National Executive Headquarters, ARDNEH for short.

The magic sword trope is far older than Lightbringer or Townsaver. It goes back to when people actually believed that their heroes had such weapons. Attila had the Sword of Mars, Arthur had Excalibur, Roland had Durendal.

If you like Saberhagen, you should check out his Berserker stories. The Berserkers are the remnants of an ancient interstellar war, giant sentient warships programmed to seek out and destroy all life. For obvious reasons, humans must resist them. Saberhagen opened this world up to other writers like Larry Niven & Poul Anderson.