Big question about the GNC?

[Northernmonkey]

I'm sure this has been discussed a lot of times, but for me there's a massive flaw in the grand northern conspiracy - why wouldn't they tell Jon about it?

It makes absolutely no sense not to tell Jon. Firstly, because you need to find out whether he's willing to forsake his vows or not (if not the whole things pointless). Secondly, because the longer you leave him at the wall the more likely it is that he's going to get killed by wildlings or others.

If Jon was a vital part of a massive plan to reclaim the North, the first thing you'd do would be go and find him, talk to him and take him somewhere safe. It's completely unrealistic that nobody would tell him.

[SkaggCannibal]

Yes you're right, but there is also a version of the GNC with Jon no where in sight and everyone just going after Rickon, maybe that's the solution. Or maybe there isn't a GNC.

[Heyo Winter Comin']

Well the GNC isn't necessarily centred on Jon, it can work with or without him. But the popular consensus is that the clan leaders attended the wedding at the Wall to assess Jon as a leader. They want to know he's the right man for the job before giving him the job.

[Heyo Winter Comin']

Yes you're right, but there is also a version of the GNC with Jon no where in sight and everyone just going after Rickon, maybe that's the solution. Or maybe there isn't a GNC.

There is a GNC, even if we just consider Manderly and Robett's schemings. Only the scale is up for debate.

[Northernmonkey]

Well the GNC isn't necessarily centred on Jon, it can work with or without him. But the popular consensus is that the clan leaders attended the wedding at the Wall to assess Jon as a leader. They want to know he's the right man for the job before giving him the job.

Interesting, but that happened a long time after Robb's death. What were the Northeners doing for all that time? Why would they wait so long before talking to Jon about it?

[SkaggCannibal]

There is a GNC, even if we just consider Manderly and Robett's schemings. Only the scale is up for debate.

Than it isn't a GNC, rather a SNC (2 people) and nothing like it is being described in GNC-threats. But I agree with you, there is proof of something. Not much.

[Northernmonkey]

There is a GNC, even if we just consider Manderly and Robett's schemings. Only the scale is up for debate.

Personally I think that's as far as the GNC goes. You could also add that the mountain clans probably know that Bran and Rickon are still alive - they might have been in touch with other Northerners.

[Heyo Winter Comin']

Than it isn't a GNC, rather a SNC (2 people) and nothing like it is being described in GNC-threats. But I agree with you, there is proof of something. Not much.

Super Northern Conspiracy? :p

[Heyo Winter Comin']

Personally I think that's as far as the GNC goes. You could also add that the mountain clans probably know that Bran and Rickon are still alive - they might have been in touch with other Northerners.

Then why were the Mormonts off the coast with troops hidden in fishing vessels? Just to liberate Deepwood Motte or to liberate it and join up with the other conspirators?

[Heyo Winter Comin']

And then we've got the Umbers with the Boltons conveniently taking all the Greybeards, right around the little spiel from the Clans about the old men willing to die during the winter. The Umbers aren't sending their young boys to die over the Stark restoration. The green boys are there to be on the winning side, while the greybeards are in Winterfell willing to throw their lives away.

And then we've got the Riverlands. Blackwood was clearly trying to ascertain Jaime's movements, while Daven mentions fires surrounding them at night, watching them. GRRM obviously had this in for a reason to indicate a Riverlands conspiracy. And we've got the Blackfish and his comments to Jaime.

[Northernmonkey]

Then why were the Mormonts off the coast with troops hidden in fishing vessels? Just to liberate Deepwood Motte or to liberate it and join up with the other conspirators?

I fully accept that the Northerners are probably working together to retake the North.

I'm just not convinced about the rest of the conspiracy. I just can't understand why they wouldn't tell Jon. Until I hear a reasonable explanation for that I'll stay skeptical.

[SkaggCannibal]

Super Northern Conspiracy? :P

Lol could be, my personal favorite is Great Northern Delussion.

[Heyo Winter Comin']

I fully accept that the Northerners are probably working together to retake the North.

I'm just not convinced about the rest of the conspiracy. I just can't understand why they wouldn't tell Jon. Until I hear a reasonable explanation for that I'll stay skeptical.

Fair enough, but again the GNC isn't necessarily centred around Jon; just a Stark.

[Heyo Winter Comin']

Lol could be, my personal favorite is Great Northern Delussion.

We shall see, Renly. Come the dawn, we shall see.

[sertravisredbeard]

I think if Jon finds out too early, there's a danger of his enemies also finding out. As we know, some men at the Wall were waiting for a reason to kill/attack Jon. They might know that he'd turned down Stannis's offer to become Lord Stark of Winterfell, so the conspirators might want to wait until they can show him the will and explain that making him Lord of Winterfell was his brother Robb's wish.

Sending a high profile bannerman like one of the Glovers or Manderlys north to the Wall for a wedding might look suspicious, but no one is really that surprised at the Flint and Norrey showing up after Stannis visited them in the mountains.

We don't know if Bolton has any spies at the Wall, but Thorne and Slynt's suspect loyalty to Jon over the Lannisters would definitely cause some concern to anyone who's planning to legitimize him and install him as Lord of Winterfell or King in the North.

[shearstone]

The reason is the northern lords don't want to make Roose suspicious of their intentions whilst they lick their wounds and gather their strength. Telling Jon would be useless until the lords are ready to strike as it ricks Jon's exposure and the Boltons might try and assassinate him.

[Northernmonkey]

The reason is the northern lords don't want to make Roose suspicious of their intentions whilst they lick their wounds and gather their strength. Telling Jon would be useless until the lords are ready to strike as it ricks Jon's exposure and the Boltons might try and assassinate him.

But he's in danger at the wall anyway. Considering that Benjen was lost beyond the wall why would they risk that happening to Jon?

[SkaggCannibal]

Then why were the Mormonts off the coast with troops hidden in fishing vessels? Just to liberate Deepwood Motte or to liberate it and join up with the other conspirators?

To liberate Deepwood Motte and join up with Stannis to fight Boltons and Freys? Don't think you need to be in a GNC to want that.

And then we've got the Umbers with the Boltons conveniently taking all the Greybeards, right around the little spiel from the Clans about the old men willing to die during the winter. The Umbers aren't sending their young boys to die over the Stark restoration. The green boys are there to be on the winning side, while the greybeards are in Winterfell willing to throw their lives away.

And then we've got the Riverlands. Blackwood was clearly trying to ascertain Jaime's movements, while Daven mentions fires surrounding them at night, watching them. GRRM obviously had this in for a reason to indicate a Riverlands conspiracy. And we've got the Blackfish and his comments to Jaime.

Your first alinea is all proof of them wanting to get rid of Boltons, nothing about Jon as KitN. It could all just as well be to support Stannis, or KitN/Lord Paramount Rickon.

Riverlands is a bit far off the GNC, but I'll go along. The Blackfish protesting "too much" about Jon. LOL that is not a good argument, Cat was also protesting "too much", doesn't mean she wants Jon. The Blackfish most likely hadn't had contact with anybody, he was in a fortress under siege, communication isn't that easy. I doubt any conspirators would take the chance of getting caught with delicate, treasonous intell to inform someone who is in no position of helping them, about the GNC. Things moving in the Riverlands probably have more to do with the BwB vs. Freys than with a GNC. At least that's my opinion.

[houseHB]

You also forgot the letter Jon got at the end of Dance could have been from one of the Northern conspirators. The letter could have been a ploy to bring Jon south and when he arrives at Winterfell he finds The Manderlys, Glovers, Umbers and Stannis instead of the Boltons and Freys.

[SkaggCannibal]

I think if Jon finds out too early, there's a danger of his enemies also finding out. As we know, some men at the Wall were waiting for a reason to kill/attack Jon. They might know that he'd turned down Stannis's offer to become Lord Stark of Winterfell, so the conspirators might want to wait until they can show him the will and explain that making him Lord of Winterfell was his brother Robb's wish.

Sending a high profile bannerman like one of the Glovers or Manderlys north to the Wall for a wedding might look suspicious, but no one is really that surprised at the Flint and Norrey showing up after Stannis visited them in the mountains.

We don't know if Bolton has any spies at the Wall, but Thorne and Slynt's suspect loyalty to Jon over the Lannisters would definitely cause some concern to anyone who's planning to legitimize him and install him as Lord of Winterfell or King in the North.

The reason is the northern lords don't want to make Roose suspicious of their intentions whilst they lick their wounds and gather their strength. Telling Jon would be useless until the lords are ready to strike as it ricks Jon's exposure and the Boltons might try and assassinate him.

So it is too dangerous to tell Jon, but not too dangerous to tell lots of Northern Lords? Informing any extra person increases the risk of betrayal, not specifically Jon. A basic rule of conspiracy is to keep the number of people involved as low as possible, another reason I doubt the G in GNC.