Morroqo's Prophecy - Most likely theory IMO

[mkachmer]

Morroqo says there are 6 dragons... Old, Young, True, False, Bright, Dark

He says Tyrion is among them... This I think clearly eliminates Tyrion as one of them and puts the Joanna and Aries theory to rest.

It does, however, suggest that these 6 dragons can only be characters who have interacted with Tyrion. This eliminates a number of potential characters ie Viserys as the false dragon.

There is some debate as to whether Morroqo or any other red priest can see only the future or in fact what was, is and shall be. Although there is text to support the claim that they can see anything that Rh'llor wants them to. Regardless the flames are unreliable. That said I will concede the point that these 6 dragons should be living.

Also there is an obvious symmetry her Old-Young... True-False... Light-Dark. Obviously these 6 characters are paired off into twos that have a significant relationship with each other.

So assuming these are all characters Tyrion has met lets figure it out as such...

OLD - I concede to others who have made a strong argument for Bryden Rivers the Blood Raven... I like Aemon here were he living, he has a strong relationship to JON

YOUNG - Jon. Some might argue that Jon is the TRUE dragon but unless his mother, Lyanna was married to Rhaegar which has been suggested but seems unlikely, he cannot be the true heir. Does this mean he won't marry the true heir (DANY) and potentially rule Westoros, of course not.

TRUE- DANY. She is the only choice here as she is the only true born dragon we know of and in all likelyhood will remain so.

FALSE- Aegon. Beware the mummer's dragon, Varys being the mummer and Aegon being his horse in the race so to speak. I think this prophecy confirms many peoples belief that Aegon is false. There has to be a false dragon and he is the only suitable choice with a relationship with Tyrion. Also his relationship with DANY is signifigant although they have yet to encounter each other. He is the one with the greatest claim to what she believes is her throne.

BRIGHT- Varys - I am quite certain of this for a number of reasons. One I think it is most clear that a Brightflame represents the bright as a Blackfyre represents the dark. Vary's is from Lys where we know Aerion was banished and had a bastard son. Many believe that this son is Varys father. Varys shaves his head to conceal his hair color. He was brought to court suspiciously by Aeries and most importantly he had his manhood burned in a blood magic ritual. There was a voice in the flames... Likely Rh'llor's and what kind of blood is needed in the rituals? KINGS BLOOD. Also Varys alignment with Illyrio certainly speaks volumes as Illyrio clearly has ties to both Brightflame and Blackfyre.

DARK- Illyrio/Serra. This is a little more difficult as there are a number of possibilities but I think the bond/friendship between Varys and Illyrio makes it the best choice. Illyrio was clearly married to a Targaryen descendant (Serra)... Perhaps Aegon is there son. This would explain the Golden Companies devotion to Aegon and refusal to aid Viserys.

Now when you look at the pairs it makes a great deal of since to me.

OLD-YOUNG : BLOODRAVEN/AEMON-JON

TRUE-FALSE : DANY-AEGON

BRIGHT-DARK : VARYS-ILLYRIO

Each has a special relationship to the other and all 6 have a significant relationship with Tyrion. The ramifications of this are substantial and makes the end game easier to begin to determine.

[Mithras]

Welcome to the forums :cheers:

This vision of Moqorro has been discussed here. ;)

[mkachmer]

I am well aware but that said... I have not agreed with other theories that have been put forth. I am sure something similar or the same has been suggested but all the same I wanted to share my thoughts.

[yolkboy]

The flames show the future, right? Then how can it be Aemon?

Also, Moqorro seems to be giving Tyrion a picture of a situation he will be involved in,

And you. A small man with a big shadow, snarling in the midst of all.”

So I don't think the old dragon is Aemon as he's already dead.

[mkachmer]

I am not so sure they show the future... I have had this discussion before and while I agree it is a valid point I think that this vision suggest that they are characters Tyrion has and will interact with but that said... I am willing to concede that the OLD dragon could be Brynden Rivers but as of yet it doesn't seem that he and Tyrion will cross paths.

[GHOSTSTARK]

The flames show the future, right? Then how can it be Aemon?

Also, Moqorro seems to be giving Tyrion a picture of a situation he will be involved in,

So I don't think the old dragon is Aemon as he's already dead.

so Tyrion is the old dragon?

[mkachmer]

The problem therein lies that JON has no significant relationship or partnership with Brynden

[mkachmer]

Tyrion is not a dragon according to the prophecy... He is AMONG them, in their MIDST not one of them

[Ser Creighton]

Kind of hard to have a list of Dragons when Bloodraven isn't on it, the Old Dragon living in the dark cave, who constantly talks about the Dark.

[yolkboy]

so Tyrion is the old dragon?

Oh no that's not what I was implying. Just that Aemon being dead makes him an unlikely candidate for Moqorro's flames.

Tyrion is said to be snarling in the middle of it all (ie all these dragons), and is not mentioned as a dragon himself. I would guess moqorro is painting a picture of the upcoming DotD v2, and Tyrion will be in amongst them somewhere, he will be relevant.

Old dragon could be Bloodraven.

[GHOSTSTARK]

Oh no that's not what I was implying. Just that Aemon being dead makes him an unlikely candidate for Moqorro's flames.

Tyrion is said to be snarling in the middle of it all (ie all these dragons), and is not mentioned as a dragon himself. I would guess moqorro is painting a picture of the upcoming DotD v2, and Tyrion will be in amongst them somewhere, he will be relevant.

Old dragon could be Bloodraven.

ahh that makes sense. i forgot about Bloodraven.

[Ser Creighton]

The problem therein lies that JON has no significant relationship or partnership with Brynden

You ever take a good look at Ghost? Bran is Jon's brother, Bloodraven has been watching the Starks for years, both are located in the North, both are dealing with the Others. Mel sees Bloodraven in her visions and Jon. Not connected? It's pretty obvious they are connected.

[mkachmer]

I completely agree they are connected... that said I don't know if that qualifies as the kind of relationship I was suggesting. I will not discount him as a potential OLD dragon.

[Ser Creighton]

I completely agree they are connected... that said I don't know if that qualifies as the kind of relationship I was suggesting. I will not discount him as a potential OLD dragon.

Bloodraven communicates through dreams and other ways. He may very well be guiding Jon. You ever notice that the first time Jon tried to leave the wall it was actually Ghost that stopped him. The second time he was thinking about leaving the wall and taking the offer from Stannis, Jon was questioning what to do. Then Ghost suddenly showed up and he had his answer. You also have Bloodravens symbol constantly hanging around Jon's shoulder.

Oh Jon's in relationship, Jon just doesn't know it. Not to mention they're family.

On an outside chance Jon could be the Bright Dragon not the young Dragon. And Blood Raven could be the Dark Dragon not the Old dragon. I tend to look at prophecies two way, the obvious or most obvious and the subtle or underlying. Martin loves to play with the two aspects Obvious and Obscure. Blackfyre and Brightflame are the obvious light and dark. But it's Bloodraven that speaks of embracing the Dark and their are some theories that Jon is Lightbringer or it's wielder. So the possible Nightlight that walks and the Dragon who embraces the Dark. Perhaps they are going to bump heads. I do not know. Martin very much likes prophecies to be very obscure.

[mkachmer]

I cannot argue your point... There is a lot of truth in that. I do however think that is this case Morroqo's prophecy is more a statement of fact than prophetic. That said I would not discount the possible Bloodraven-Jon... Light-Dark theory. But I do think the one thing that ties the characters together is Tyrion obviously and as of yet he has had no interaction with Bloodraven but that isn't to say he will not.

[Amoracchius]

Just throwing it out there, but how do we know that Moqorro's vision refers to six different dragons? Yes, he uses six different adjectives, but isn't it possible that he's using three sets of descriptors for just two dragons?

Not saying that this has to be the case, but I think there is an alternate reading. It could be that he is saying there are two dragons; one old, true, and bright; one young, false, and dark. If that is what the vision meant, I'd be inclined to say that Dany is the old, true, and bright dragon (with old meaning that she is the Targaryan claimant who has been known for a while), where as (f)Aegon is the young, false, and dark one (with young referring to his recent and sudden reappearance).

Again, I don't necessarily adhere to this, I just wanted to point out that, like many of the visions GRRM presents, there are multiple ways to interpret it.

Edit: typos

[mkachmer]

He mentions the adjectives in 3 pairings of 2... Additionally to not include JON is folly when this is truly his story. A song of Ice and Fire... ie Stark-Targaryen. Aegon I think is ultimately a sub-plot... In reality the characters that move the story forward are Jon, Dany and Tyrion but I see little reason in thinking there are any less than 6 dragons to represent these 6 adjectives.

[Ser Creighton]

Just throwing it out there, but how do we know that Moqorro's vision refers to six different dragons? Yes, he uses six different adjectives, but isn't it possible that he's using three sets of descriptors for just two dragons?

Not saying that this has to be the case, but I think there is an alternate reading. It could be that he is saying there are two dragons; one old, true, and bright; one young, false, and dark. If that is what the vision meant, I'd be inclined to say that Dany is the old, true, and bright dragon (with old meaning that she is the Targaryan claimant who has been known for a while), where as (f)Aegon is the young, false, and dark one (with young referring to his recent and sudden reappearance).

Again, I don't necessarily adhere to this, I just wanted to point out that, like many of the visions GRRM presents, there are multiple was to interpret it.

A good point, it ties into the obscure uses of prophecy by Martin and it may not be all the dragons. Visions are what you need to see, Tyrion is headed to Dany and recently tied to Aegon which seems to be part of Dany's future. Martin likes to mess with peoples heads, I hate prophecies, I love them, but I hate them. According to Martin you have to be careful, prophecies don't happen the way you may think they do. Like the story he told about the Knight and the wall, or was it castle? Dude spent his life avoiding this one place where it was said he would die, only to end up dead by an inn that had a picture of the place he would die above the door.

[Amoracchius]

He mentions the adjectives in 3 pairings of 2... Additionally to not include JON is folly when this is truly his story. A song of Ice and Fire... ie Stark-Targaryen. Aegon I think is ultimately a sub-plot... In reality the characters that move the story forward are Jon, Dany and Tyrion but I see little reason in thinking there are any less than 6 dragons to represent these 6 adjectives.

Sure, I think Jon is going to be incredibly important in the resolution of the overarching plot of the novels, but that doesn't meant that every vision or premonition has to do with him. This line from Moqorro could be meant to imply something about the main plot of the novels or it could be about what you and I agree is probably a sub-plot with (f)Aegon. It could mean six different people or it could mean two people. The point is that we don't know and I just wanted to interject that possibility into the conversation.

[Ser Creighton]

He mentions the adjectives in 3 pairings of 2... Additionally to not include JON is folly when this is truly his story. A song of Ice and Fire... ie Stark-Targaryen. Aegon I think is ultimately a sub-plot... In reality the characters that move the story forward are Jon, Dany and Tyrion but I see little reason in thinking there are any less than 6 dragons to represent these 6 adjectives.

Well it depends how you look at it, it's not Jon's story though, at least not according to Martin who has repeated time and again it is the story of Westeros and he does not have a main character. The title also has many meanings according to the author, two of them are the Poem by Robert frost which is about death, and the wall and the Dragons.

Of the prophets not a one has seen Jon as a dragon. Not to say he is not a dragon, but it's like Mel said the Gods show you what you need to know not what you want to know. It may not be time to reveal Jon. In prophecies and prophetic dreams nobody has seen Jon as a Dragon including Jon. Dany sees him as a Rose, Mel gets hints that he may be AA, Jon dreams of himself in black ice with a burning sword. Bran also has not seen him as a dragon. Why would Morroqo?

Basically because of the way Martin goes about his business with prophecies it is hard to point the finger at one thing, and probably better not to. You just never know with him. Keep your options open is my best advice.