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Has (f)Aegon always been (f)Aegon?


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#1 Lord Jennings

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 09:32 AM

If the planned worked out and Viserys hadn't of been a total idiot and gotten himself killed, would (f)Aegon still try to claim the throne?

 

What I am trying to say is: after the death of Viserys did Illyrio and Varys go with the next best plan which is (f)Aegon? Would there even be a (f)Aegon if Viserys lived? Would the golden company AND the dothraki fight for Viserys or would they war against each other? Was it the plan all along for Viserys to die?

 

Varys tells Kevan that they had been training (f)Aegon since he was a little boy to be the best king there ever was. Why would they train him to rule with Viserys and Dany still alive?



#2 Julia Martell

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 09:38 AM

JonCon believes he's real, so he's been fAegon at least since he was a little boy and the Griff griff began.

Or he's the real deal. :-)

 

Most people on this forum will tell you Varys and Illyrio never has any intention of letting Viserys anywhere near the Iron Throne. And Dany was a nonentity until she went and started hatching dragons and conquoring cities. 


Edited by Julia Martell, 18 March 2014 - 09:39 AM.


#3 Bright Blue Eyes

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 09:39 AM

Yes, of course. He has always been the one and only goal of Varys and Illyrio.

 

And yes, Viserys was intended to die from the start.

 

And yes, FAegon would be ahead of Viserys and Dany in succession either way.



#4 Lord Jennings

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 09:44 AM

JonCon believes he's real, so he's been fAegon at least since he was a little boy and the Griff griff began.

Or he's the real deal. :-)

 

Most people on this forum will tell you Varys and Illyrio never has any intention of letting Viserys anywhere near the Iron Throne. And Dany was a nonentity until she went and started hatching dragons and conquoring cities. 

 

So you think its been Young Griff all along as the chosen one to take back the throne? What if Viserys had lived? If he was more Rhaegar instead of himself? <--if that were the case I don't think there would even be an (f)Aegon

 

 I agree with you on Daenarys.



#5 jet199

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 09:44 AM

I think because Viserys' and Dany's legitimacy is undisputed then their support would be used to bolster fAegon's questionable legitimacy. I think Viserys was probably meant to die but he was meant to get the dothraki to Westeros first and failed. Illyrio probably planned to have Viserys, then Dany, as the figure head during the invasion, and take the flack for it, then kill them when the war was won. As fAegon is so young Illyrio did not expect him to be able to lead his own army by the time the invasion started but because his plans have been delayed the boy has grown up.



#6 Julia Martell

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 09:48 AM

If fAegon is a Blackfyre then Varys and Illyrio see him as the "true" king ahead of any Targaryan descended from Daeron II.

 

If Aegon is real, he's ahead of Viserys in the succession and they would either want him out of the way, or use him to bolster Aegon's legitimacy.  


Edited by Julia Martell, 18 March 2014 - 09:49 AM.


#7 Lord Jennings

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 09:50 AM

I think because Viserys' and Dany's legitimacy is undisputed then their support would be used to bolster fAegon's questionable legitimacy. I think Viserys was probably meant to die but he was meant to get the dothraki to Westeros first and failed. Illyrio probably planned to have Viserys, then Dany, as the figure head during the invasion, and take the flack for it, then kill them when the war was won. As fAegon is so young Illyrio did not expect him to be able to lead his own army by the time the invasion started but because his plans have been delayed the boy has grown up.

 

If I am Viserys and Dany I am not supporting (f)Aegon because ever since the sack of King's Landing I have been told he's dead. Now all of a sudden he's alive again? I think that would be a tough sell



#8 Bright Blue Eyes

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 09:52 AM

 

If I am Viserys and Dany I am not supporting (f)Aegon because ever since the sack of King's Landing I have been told he's dead. Now all of a sudden he's alive again? I think that would be a tough sell

Yes, sending them headfirst into Robert's warhammer with a couple Dothraki would be better than poison or a dagger in the dark. But ultimately any problem they posed could be dealt with.



#9 Lord Jennings

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 09:54 AM

If fAegon is a Blackfyre then Varys and Illyrio see him as the "true" king ahead of any Targaryan descended from Daeron II.

 

If Aegon is real, he's ahead of Viserys in the succession and they would either want him out of the way, or use him to bolster Aegon's legitimacy.  

 

Agreed. I just dont think that after 17 years of believing a person is dead and thinking the 7 kingdoms are yours by right would be easy to give up to someone who shows up and claims they are the true heir.



#10 Suzanna Stormborn

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 10:02 AM

1. If the planned worked out and Viserys hadn't of been a total idiot and gotten himself killed, would (f)Aegon still try to claim the throne?

 

2. What I am trying to say is: after the death of Viserys did Illyrio and Varys go with the next best plan which is (f)Aegon? Would there even be a (f)Aegon if Viserys lived? Would the golden company AND the dothraki fight for Viserys or would they war against each other? Was it the plan all along for Viserys to die?

 

3. Varys tells Kevan that they had been training (f)Aegon since he was a little boy to be the best king there ever was. Why would they train him to rule with Viserys and Dany still alive?

1. It wasn't up to Aegon, Illyrio has set this whole course in action, he is calling the shots up to the point when Tyrion tricks Aegon.

 

2. Aegon was always the original plan as he is Illyrio's son.  Viserys was going to die no matter what, Illyrio was pretty positive Dany would die too.  Viserys, when on the run with Dany, approached the GC and asked them to help him invade Westeros and they turned him down.  The Dothraki would have never fought for Viserys.  Yes it was the plan for Viserys to die the whole time.

 

3. They trained him because they are related to him and want to put the Blackfyres back on the throne, make no mistake this plan has been in motion for the best part of 2 decades. fAegon was always the plan. Dany and Viserys were completely worthless until Dany hatched the dragons (which NO ONE knew would happen).  After the dragons Varys and Illyrio wanted her back because the dragons validate who she is and if fAegon married her, no one would question him.  It was all about him the whole time.


Edited by Suzanna Stormborn, 18 March 2014 - 10:03 AM.


#11 Lord Jennings

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 10:24 AM

nice @ suzanna stormborn. I guess JonCon's take away from supporting this farce is that he gets to go home. Hes placing a pretender on his best friends throne but I guess thats better, to him, than Tommen. Good enough for me.



#12 Julia Martell

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 10:30 AM

I would argue that JonCon's POV makes it VERY clear he thinks fAegon is the real deal.



#13 Suzanna Stormborn

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 10:33 AM

nice @ suzanna stormborn. I guess JonCon's take away from supporting this farce is that he gets to go home. Hes placing a pretender on his best friends throne but I guess thats better, to him, than Tommen. Good enough for me.

There is debate about whether or not JonCon knows the true lineage of fAegon.  I used to think he knew Aegon was fake, but if you go back and read the JOnCon/GC chapter, it really seems like JonCon believes Aegon is Rhaegars son.  JOnCon's motives are to restore 'his Prince's' son to the throne and to take Connington house back and to restore his families honor.



#14 Bright Blue Eyes

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 10:33 AM

nice @ suzanna stormborn. I guess JonCon's take away from supporting this farce is that he gets to go home. Hes placing a pretender on his best friends throne but I guess thats better, to him, than Tommen. Good enough for me.

JonCon doesn't know.



#15 Suzanna Stormborn

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 10:35 AM

I would argue that JonCon's POV makes it VERY clear he thinks fAegon is the real deal.

yeah I would have to agree at this point that JonCon is not in on the entire 'plan'.  Only varys and Illyrio know everything.



#16 Lord Jennings

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 10:41 AM

yeah I would have to agree at this point that JonCon is not in on the entire 'plan'.  Only varys and Illyrio know everything.

 

Gotcha - thanks for clearing that up yall.



#17 Ingelheim

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 10:44 AM

fAegon has always been the one intended to get the IT by Varys and Illyrio.



#18 Suzanna Stormborn

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 10:58 AM

 

Gotcha - thanks for clearing that up yall.

:) Yall? Where in the south are you from? SEC represent :)



#19 MoIaF

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 10:59 AM

fAegon has always been the one intended to get the IT by Varys and Illyrio.

 

Exactly - he's been the centerpiece of their master plan. 



#20 Lord Jennings

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 11:02 AM

:) Yall? Where in the south are you from? SEC represent :)

 

TEXAS - Still big 12 country here despite what A&M believes!!