Sword of the Morning: likely candidates

[Fool of a Book]

My theory is that DarkStar was created by GRRM because he discarded the five years gap he wanted. With fiveyears gap we have a 17 yo Ned Daynes superbadass with Dawn. Without a fiveyears gap we have a 13yo lame unrealistic Dawn wielder. Grrm then created Darkstar to replace Ned. Gerold having a totally different personality from Ned was just GRRM trying not to be redundant.

That's one of the best theories I've heard.

So you think Darkstar is destined for the sword and title? What does he have to do to get it?

[Consigliere]

What sort of things would make someone worthy? And who would decide?

Granted, Dawn is like no other sword in the story.

Do those who want the title/sword go and perform some tasks and then present themselves to... someone at Starfall... and make a claim? Is there a vote? Who the heck is qualified to vote, if so?

It is decided within House Dayne as per SSM

The same guy asked about the Daynes and the Sword of the Morning, asking how that title is decided. George said the Sword of the Morning is always a member of House Dayne, someone who is deemed worthy of wielding Dawn as decided within the House, that whoever it is would have to earn the right to wield it.

[Fool of a Book]

It is decided within House Dayne as per SSM

That is pretty much my question. We don't have that many "House Dayne" characters to either BE the SotM or CHOOSE the SotM.

[Lady Woodland]

"Ulysses of the Divide"

Quote "will be pissed the fuck off if anyone but Edric or Arthur (who is still alive :wield it"

So who/where is sir Arthur? Not likely we haven't met him yet. Do you have a theory on who he is?

[Drake Heath]

That's one of the best theories I've heard.

So you think Darkstar is destined for the sword and title? What does he have to do to get it?

I think he'll steal it, or do something equally edgy to obtain it.

[MasterJack]

"Ulysses of the Divide"

Quote "will be pissed the fuck off if anyone but Edric or Arthur (who is still alive :wield it"

So who/where is sir Arthur? Not likely we haven't met him yet. Do you have a theory on who he is?

Probably that: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/89012-howland-reed-ashara-dayne-meera-jojen/

Long but fun and interesting read.

[Fool of a Book]

Probably that: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/89012-howland-reed-ashara-dayne-meera-jojen/

Long but fun and interesting read.

I enjoy that theory, but the biggest issue is that neither Jojen nor Meera is in a position to be an expect swordsperson, recognized as from House Dayne, and agreed within House Dayne as worthy.

... but it would be pretty cool if Arthur claimed his own title and sword back.

[Consigliere]

That is pretty much my question. We don't have that many "House Dayne" characters to either BE the SotM or CHOOSE the SotM.

The wielder may not necessarily be chosen this time. The sword could be stolen by Dorkstar or if you are inclined to believe that Arthur Dayne is still kicking then he could come back and reclaim the sword.

[Fool of a Book]

The wielder may not necessarily be chosen this time. The sword could be stolen by Dorkstar or if you are inclined to believe that Arthur Dayne is still kicking then he could come back and reclaim the sword.

Yes I wonder if that's possible. As in, if naming a King the King suddenly gives him magical King's blood (discussed often on these boards) does the actual bestowal of the title grant some sort of special something? An affinity with the sword? Must the title tie into the power of Dawn somehow? Maybe they need to prove some magical affinity in order to be able to wield it?

ETA just an example, Arthur pulling Excaliber from the Rock.

I doubt it's that simple to just steal, or it would have been stolen already by someone else.

[Consigliere]

Yes I wonder if that's possible. As in, if naming a King the King suddenly gives him magical King's blood (discussed often on these boards) does the actual bestowal of the title grant some sort of special something? An affinity with the sword? Must the title tie into the power of Dawn somehow? Maybe they need to prove some magical affinity in order to be able to wield it?

ETA just an example, Arthur pulling Excaliber from the Rock.

I doubt it's that simple to just steal, or it would have been stolen already by someone else.

I am skeptical about the whole kings blood thing. I don't believe that there is anything magical about kings blood. There are some who believe that Dawn is Lightbringer and whatever magical properties the sword may possess will be "activated" when wielded by AAR. If true, then perhaps this time the wielder may not necessarily be a member of house Dayne.

[Fool of a Book]

I am skeptical about the whole kings blood thing. I don't believe that there is anything magical about kings blood. There are some who believe that Dawn is Lightbringer and whatever magical properties the sword may possess will be "activated" when wielded by AAR. If true, then perhaps this time the wielder may not necessarily be a member of house Dayne.

...or, a previously unknown member... since there are so few Daynes to choose from.

I'm also skeptical about the King's blood thing, since it seems arbitrary to say the least.

But the SotM seems to be one of the only instances where there are firm and fast rules about he/she being a proven worthy member of House Dayne. This seems to preclude some random member of the House stealing it. I'm not sure how many other rules can be broken in this series just to shock the readership. I'd like to think this one is written in stone.

[Ser Creighton]

Jorah will end up with it for a time, then exchange it for Longclaw. The office itself may not be held by anyone again, at least not for the length of the series. How it gets to Jorah I don't know, but it will end up with him. Maybe Darkstar tries to kill Dany after he steals it or something who knows with Martin.

Either that or the blade is already in the North and Darkstar will reveal it is already missing. Though he is not a POV so not sure how that would happen, maybe the Prologue in winds.

Edric is like the rest of the Daynes who hold the power of invisibility, you see them for a bit and then they vanish for the rest of the series. They are all alive, not one has ever died, they are just invisible.

[ThunderG]

What about Faegon Sand, the son of Brandon Stark and Ashara Dayne?

[Fool of a Book]

Jorah will end up with it for a time, then exchange it for Longclaw. The office itself may not be held by anyone again, at least not for the length of the series. How it gets to Jorah I don't know, but it will end up with him. Maybe Darkstar tries to kill Dany after he steals it or something who knows with Martin.

Either that or the blade is already in the North and Darkstar will reveal it is already missing. Though he is not a POV so not sure how that would happen, maybe the Prologue in winds.

Edric is like the rest of the Daynes who hold the power of invisibility, you see them for a bit and then they vanish for the rest of the series. They are all alive, not one has ever died, they are just invisible.

How do you propose Jorah earns/is eligible for/is voted/gets his hands on Dawn? I see you say you don't know, but what could be a scenario?

[Fool of a Book]

What about Faegon Sand, the son of Brandon Stark and Ashara Dayne?

Yes I sort of alluded to this in my OP. I think it's still a possibility, especially the more other possibilities are disregarded.

[Consigliere]

...or, a previously unknown member... since there are so few Daynes to choose from.

I'm also skeptical about the King's blood thing, since it seems arbitrary to say the least.

But the SotM seems to be one of the only instances where there are firm and fast rules about he/she being a proven worthy member of House Dayne. This seems to preclude some random member of the House stealing it. I'm not sure how many other rules can be broken in this series just to shock the readership. I'd like to think this one is written in stone.

Personally I would prefer if the wielder is a worthy member of House Dayne. An unknown Dayne as you mentioned or Edric (the only Dayne as things stand that could be worthy). Hypothetically speaking, the sword could be stolen (for argument sake lets say by Darkstar) and Edric could set out to retrieve the sword (performing some heroics along the way) thereby proving himself worthy.

[The Kinkslayer]

Dawn was last seen when Neddard return it to Starfall and Ashara ended up dead, so is obvious that the Ned was the new sword of the morning and Azor Ahai come again as the sword wielded by him resulted in the dead of his true love.

Nonetheless, as Ned ended up dead we can be pretty much sure that the mankind died with him.

[Lady Woodland]

"MasterJack"

"Long but fun and interesting read." (link)

Thanks for the link much appreciated. Phone app not cooperating with quote boxes sorry

[Khal Shaggydog]

Its little old Ned. He was nice to Arya, he is a Lord, and he is running with the badass Berid Dondarrion (his uncle in law to be?) before Beric dies the 7th time.

I don't think its too much of a stretch that a 13 year old can be a decent warrior, and we also don't know exactly how old he is. He was a squire to Dondarrion when we first see him at the Tourney of the Hand, and now has run with the BWB for some time, until Stoneheart, and now is in parts unknown, presumably returning to Starfall. Jaime Lannister was knighted, by Arthur Dayne, no less, at age 14-15 when he was a squire himself.

There was a great screenshot from the show talking about Ser Arthur Dayne, describing Dawn more directly than we've seen previously. It also had a picture of the Dayne banner.

[Ser Creighton]

How do you propose Jorah earns/is eligible for/is voted/gets his hands on Dawn? I see you say you don't know, but what could be a scenario?

Threw a dart at a board with ASOIAF characters on it, landed between Jon and Jorah. Seriously you can come up with a dozen scenarios for any of this stuff if you are just making it up.

Ned gets it because he was nice to Arya so that makes him worthy of the office of Sword of the Morning?

We may never see Dawn or the office again who knows. But you can put the sword in anyones hands pretty easily if you are just making stuff up. Edric who has not been seen in a long time pops is named sword of the morning wields dawn and becomes a major character. Maybe, but he has been in the books about as much as Ser Creighton and had about as much impact on them so maybe Ser Creighton wields Dawn. Maybe it's stolen by Darkstar, he tries to kill Dany for whatever reason gets killed she gives the sword to Jorah who she promised the best sword too, and he later trades it for Longclaw his family sword during the war with the Others. Who really knows who gets it or if anyone gets it or if it is that important. But I will lay odds it goes north and ends up with Jon. I kind of think of the fire that burns against the cold as the light that will bring the Dawn. Maybe that fire is brining the dawn to someone.

We don't even know how someone is judged worthy of Dawn? All I know is "Dawn remains at Starfall until another Sword of the Morning shall arise."

Only two options exist, Darkstar steals it, because nobody is handing him the title Sword of the Morning.

Edric who is about 14 now and a nice kid.

So these two options kind of suck, not that Ned is a bad kid, but he is just a kid and not a great Knight. Martin is clearly playing with the King Arthur theme a bit here but really 2 non pov's ending up with Dawn a sword that has it's own build up which Martin will not talk about along with the Daynes. You know we will end up with some weird family connection to the Daynes and another house. Or some ancient mystery about the office of the Sword of the Morning. You don't hush up this much about a house, a sword and a title unless it's significant.

You don't throw Dawn around in so many significant spots, the Night's Watch Oath, the War for the Dawn, the name of the most legendary sword in Westeros, and currently the long night is coming unless it has some significance. You ever ask yourself why one of the oldest families in Westeros named their ancient Sword Dawn, and the title Sword of the Morning. Do you get the cyclical symbolism? A star falls and Dawn arises. That sword is going to a major POV and Jon has been training in the two handed style for most of the series.