analysing Theon Greyjoy (adwd spoilers)

[INCBlackbird]

sorry for all the theon posts I have made and will make in the future, i'm mostly here for him :)

So Theon grows up as the youngest son of Balon Greyjoy in a violent (Vikingish) culture. He is described by his sister as a shy, meek child, which in the iron born culture is translated to weak. His brothers, Rodrik & Maron bully him and beat him up, his father lets it happen, arguably even encourages it (Theon:”I’m a warrior” Balon: “your brothers were warriors”) so Theon has already a bunch of layers of issues building up at this very young age. What he basically learns is that he is A) not manly (hardened) enough and B) there is something wrong with HIM, he’s supposed to be more like his brothers.

Then Balon decides to rebel against the throne (cause being subservient to someone is one of the biggest humiliations when you’re a Greyjoy! They need independence cause “we do not sow”) both Rodrik and Maron die during the fighting and Theon is Balon’s last living son and is shipped off to winterfell as a hostage. In winterfell he is constantly judged simply for being a greyjoy (the greyjoys were not popular, with good reason!) “The whole castle, from Lady Stark to the lowest kitchen scullion, knew he was a hostage to his father's good behavior, and treated him accordingly”

Not to mention that Theon is very much aware that he could be killed any day. He is not there because he is appreciated (that’s an understatement) he is there for one reason only, so that Ned can cut his head off if his father rebels again. He’s seen by everyone (but Robb) as an object, a means to an end. Theon got no parental love whatsoever (he specifically remembers Ned Stark to be cold to him cause he knew he might have to put him to death one day and how his wife was even colder) and he never really had anyone (but his brothers) to look up to. The only one he had was Robb. And the only thing Theon really wants is to be accepted and appreciated.

So Theon has a really hard time in winterfell (something most people don’t seem to realize) he is scared of a very possible death (and showing fear is a weakness. No one can know!), his self-confidence issues are building up to the point where he practically hates himself (and again… that’s a weakness. No one can know!) and then there’s also the issue with him being a (what we would today call) metrosexual man. Theon loves to dress up nicely (Roose: “Would you prefer to dress in silk and velvet? There was a time when you were fond of such, I do recall.”) and in general Theon has a lot of trades that are generally considered to be female. Which gives Theon some gender issues, it also often gets used against him when he’s insulted with female insults (Balon: “was it Ned Stark’s pleasure to make you his daughter?” Ramsay: “you can be my bitch”)

So what does Theon do to deal with all these issues? he creates a bunch of defense mechanisms :

Theon hides his fear by smiling all the time. It’s a way for him to make the situation out to be less serious than it really is, if it’s “all just a game” he doesn’t have to be so scared. It’s basically Theon telling the world that he is not scared and telling himself there’s no reason to be scared. “He smiled a lot, as if the world were a secret joke that only he was clever enough to understand.”

Theon also romanticizes…well… EVERYTHING. He’s got a huge case of Stockholm syndrome going on when it comes to the starks, he tries to get close to them (notice how he always immediately follows Ned Starks orders like some sort of lap dog?) but when he fails he likes to imagine that they do care about him. cause if they do, there is less of a chance Ned would actually put him to death if it came to that. equally he romanticizes his own family cause if they care about him enough there’s less of a chance his father would risk his son’s life for another rebellion.

Theon acts super arrogant and degrading towards anyone he can be degrading too (which is mostly low born women) in order to hide his self-esteem issues.

Theon has a lot of sex and boasts about it to anyone he can find as a way to establish his manliness. It’s also a way to escape the life he’s leading in which he has no control whatsoever over what happens to him. The only time he ever has any kind of control is in the bedroom.

Theon constantly pretends to be someone else, pretends to be the person he thinks he’s supposed to be in order to please the person he’s trying to please (Ned Stark, Balon Greyjoy) and he doesn’t just pretend, he also tries to convince himself! Half his chapters are spent lying to himself about who he is.

Theon’s relationship with robb is also beyond interesting but that’s not my area of expertise so I’m not even getting into that. it’d require it’s own essay anyways.

Then Ned Stark dies, Robb starts his war against the lannisters and could really use Balon Greyjoy’s ships, so he sends Theon home to convince his father to fight with them. both of them are insanely naïve in that moment. but when it comes to Theon well I mentioned his romanticizing and this is where it comes into play for the first time cause he gets a bit of control here and he’s convinced himself that his dad will totally listen to him! He is absolutely convinced his father will be so happy to have him back, cause hey, last living son AND HEIR! But Theon was dead to Balon the moment he was shipped off to winterfell, he is even less of a greyjoy now and he was never a conventional greyjoy to begin with. So Theon is bitterly disappointed but at that point there is no way back! He’s stuck in the iron islands and it’s either betraying Robb or betraying his own family. When he was with the starks one of his ways to deal was to fantasise about his bright future as the lord of the iron islands. He’s never belonged with the starks to begin with so without that he’s (in theon’s eyes) nothing. And that one thing he thought he would always have by default (being the heir to pyke) is very close to being snatched away from him now so Theon becomes desparate and this is one of the many reasons he desides to take winterfell, other reasons include Theon always wanting to belong in winterfell and never being able too so he tries to make it his home, when he’s the lord no one can make him feel like he doesn’t belong.

However, Theon is the worst leader ever! Why? Because he’s used to romanticizing everything, and that worked to deal with his captivity, which he had no control over. But he’s used to that now, he’s not equipped to deal with reality cause he’s spend his entire life teaching himself how to reinvent his own reality over and over. So Theon quickly loses control and he’s basically radiating vulnearablity when Ramsay (in the books) or Dagmer (in the show) take adventage of the situation by manipulating Theon into doing a bunch of horrible stuff, then ramsay burns down winterfell and it’s perfect cause he can just put Theon’s name on the whole thing (Roose to Ramsay: “You never slew Lord Eddard’s sons, those two sweet boys we loved so well. That was Theon Turncloak’s work, remember? How many of our grudging friends do you imagine we’d retain if the truth were known”). Then Ramsay proceeds to capture Theon and take him back to the dreadfort.

And this is when it gets REALLY interesting! Because Ramsay is basically the literal translation of Theon’s entire life!

Ramsay tortures Theon methodically in order to break him and make him into his new Reek (he had another servant called reek that he grew up with and hunted girls with together. They were inseparable and he was possibly the most important person in Ramsay’s life and he died not long before the events in winterfell. But yeah not getting into Ramsay too much! He’s too complex, would require his own huge essay).

Ramsay starts off by cutting off some of his fingers (his method being to skin them and then leave the victim in pain until it becomes too much and they beg him to cut It off to stop it from hurting). Ramsay targets Theon’s fingers specifically because Theon’s an archer! (“Theon had his bow, he needed nothing else”) so Ramsay emmediatly deals with Theon’s only physical defense, so he’s completely at his mercy.

Ramsay then Breaks Theon’s teeth with a hamer, cause Theon probably used the smile technic on him (“Ramsay didn’t like my smiles, so he took a hammer to my teeth, I can hardly eat”)

Ramsay cuts off Theon’s Penis, as a way to play into the whole “not being a man” issue. He also arguably raped Theon (there’s plenty of indication in the text) to further “lower” him to the status of a woman. Therefor the quote from “the mountain and the viper” : “are you a woman boy?” is actually really loaded!

Ramsay forces Theon to dress in dirty ugly clothes and refuses to let him bath. And he knows that Theon specifically enjoyed dressing up nicely and in general look nice. (when all in winterfell is lost Theon basically thinks that if he is going to die, he wants to look good)

And last but not least, Ramsay takes his name. Theon’s name is of great importance to him. in winterfell it was the thing he clung to. He was Theon Greyjoy, heir to pyke. His status was the only leverage he had over the people in winterfell. Theon’s also always considered that his name decided who he was supposed to be and strived to be just that.

Theon again pretends to be someone else (this time not by choice but by force), and ironically, pretending to be Reek is the closest he ever gets to changing himself into the person he’s pretending to be and believing his own lies about it. I think it’s very important that Theon has had this practice in pretending to be someone else already so it’s pretty easy for him to fall back into it to save himself. I think it’s very possible that if he hadn’t had that practice Ramsay would have managed to break him completely.

Ramsay has effectively erased everything that Theon thought defined who he was (Theon was wrong about this though and a little part of Theon remains) and replaced it with everything Ramsay wants him to be. Because that’s what Reek is! Reek is everything that Ramsay wants (needs) and so Ramsay quickly becomes attached to him. he becomes very possessive and on some occasions intimate. Because suddenly Ramsay has this person who can provided him with everything he desires and never got (from his dad mostly) and once he’s used to that, he can’t live without it anymore.

But Theon is not completely gone and now begins the process of him slowly rebuilding himself (which is an entire essay in it’s own that I’m writing at the moment and is already 6 pages so yeah… not even getting into that) and the interesting thing is that he’s now been stripped of all these defense mechanisms, he doesn’t romanticize anymore, he has accepted reality, he can’t hide behind sex anymore and there is no point in pretending to be someone else anymore cause he has nothing left to fight for. Ironically enough by destroying him, ramsay has given theon a chance to be reborn and well… “what is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger”

[In A Coat of Gold]

Wow....Great read! Love Theon's character and was saddened how it turned out, but he is redeeming himself somewhat. Hopfully everyone knows that he didn't kill the Stark kids and razed Winterfell.

[INCBlackbird]

Wow....Great read! Love Theon's character and was saddened how it turned out, but he is redeeming himself somewhat. Hopfully everyone knows that he didn't kill the Stark kids and razed Winterfell.

thanks!! :) i'm actually hoping people will find out that it was mostly the boltons soon! (the north finding out would have a huge impact I think. and it has to be revealed eventually) and I hope the "what is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger" comes true. I think there's a possibility, but i'd be fine with him getting some sort of happy ending by being left alone and not tortured for the remainer of his life. so he can have at least some kind of peace!

[House Hendrix of Rock]

Looking forward to the next one.

He certainly isn't a child of summer anymore.

[Lord Reaver]

Correction: The ironborn don't need freedom because "we do not sow", they need it because the rule of the IT has been 300 years of solid oppression, which has reduced them to living at the very edge of sustenance. That's why they need freedom.

[Wmarshal]

Again, don't see the oppression, the iron born have been given a lot of freedom, they what? Attacked the West three times in the last three hundred years.

[INCBlackbird]

Correction: The ironborn don't need freedom because "we do not sow", they need it because the rule of the IT has been 300 years of solid oppression, which has reduced them to living at the very edge of sustenance. That's why they need freedom.

while I to a sense agree, I don't think the iron born were oppressed perse because they weren't allowed to reave and pillage anymore. because I don't think that should be accepted, and it's logical that the iron throne protected their people from such things.

my point was more that "we do not sow" stands for the whole taking what they want by force and feeling entitled to it because they were strong enough to take it by force. which is the old ways in a nutshell, which is what Balon Greyjoy wants to bring back and to do so they must have freedom. in his mind (and most of the iron born's minds) this was their godgiven right (it's in their culture). so it is logical that from their standpoint they WERE oppressed.

so yeah, I see both sides here, but I don't think culture is an excuse for the breaking of human rights, thus, I think the Greyjoys should change, i hope asha is gonna bring on this change, she's probably the most progressive Greyjoy.

I really see the Greyjoy family as a conflict between the conservative(Balon, aeron, euron & victorian) and progressive generation (asha, theon). in some ways I find Balon to be the equivalent of a stubborn republican conservative, who refuses to change with his time.

[MandrakeWench]

Thanks for this thoughtful essay; it helps me consider Theon as a more complex character than I'd originally taken him for.

[Lord Reaver]

while I to a sense agree, I don't think the iron born were oppressed perse because they weren't allowed to reave and pillage anymore. because I don't think that should be accepted, and it's logical that the iron throne protected their people from such things.

They were oppressed in that Aegon took 90% of their arable lands, then banned the only other way of getting resources.

Reaving and pillaging is virtually indistinguishable from aggressive wars over territory, the only difference is in the duration of the transgression, the latter is more permanent. The greenlanders had engaged in such wars against the Ironborn for a long time. Remember, the Ironborn used to rule everything along the western coast.

Now, the IT have consigned them to the islands to live in misery, barely able to avoid dieing from starvation. I say it's equally logical that the Iron Kings protect their people from that. And to do so, they have to be free, since the IT won't lift a finger to do anything about it.

[INCBlackbird]

Thanks for this thoughtful essay; it helps me consider Theon as a more complex character than I'd originally taken him for.

no problem :) thanks for reading :) :)

[INCBlackbird]

They were oppressed in that Aegon took 90% of their arable lands, then banned the only other way of getting resources.

Reaving and pillaging is virtually indistinguishable from aggressive wars over territory, the only difference is in the duration of the transgression, the latter is more permanent. The greenlanders had engaged in such wars against the Ironborn for a long time. Remember, the Ironborn used to rule everything along the western coast.

Now, the IT have consigned them to the islands to live in misery, barely able to avoid dieing from starvation. I say it's equally logical that the Iron Kings protect their people from that. And to do so, they have to be free, since the IT won't lift a finger to do anything about it.

on in this case I fully agree! I think I need to do some research on iron born history, I didn't know many of these things :)

[Bagga]

Fantastic post! I loved Theon but honestly couldnt really see the point of him turning reek. It felt like it wasnt really fitting in his character arc (was actually gonna make a thread on it to see what you guys thought)

This totally puts it in a new perspective tho. Awesome!

[RainGhost]

Brilliant post INCBlackbird, well done. I think you've got it spot on. I find Theon a fascinating character and I really feel sorry for him. I think too many people criticise him without really understanding why he does what he does. He inevitabley has low self-esteem and when he's put in difficult situations he doesn't have the strength to do what he believes he really should do. Like in WF - he lets everyone manipulate him. He thinks that to be seen as a strong leader he has to kill people, when really, a strong leader would do what he wanted and not what others wanted.

Conspiring in the murders of the millers' boys was an atrocious crime but Ramsay deserves more blame (I also like your insight into Ramsay and Reek's relationship). Theon is suffering for crimes he did not commit but he still screwed the Starks anyway by taking WF. Still, he didn't deserve what Ramsay did to him. Manderly and Robett Glover know that Theon wasn't responsible for WF burning and know that he didn't kill the Stark boys. I hope he has no more suffering, even if that means a quick death the way Asha pleads for.

[ghosts in winterfell]

Well done, OP!

Conspiring in the murders of the millers' boys was an atrocious crime but Ramsay deserves more blame.

I agree, it pains me to see poor Ramsay denied the credit he deserves.

[INCBlackbird]

Brilliant post INCBlackbird, well done. I think you've got it spot on. I find Theon a fascinating character and I really feel sorry for him. I think too many people criticise him without really understanding why he does what he does. He inevitabley has low self-esteem and when he's put in difficult situations he doesn't have the strength to do what he believes he really should do. Like in WF - he lets everyone manipulate him. He thinks that to be seen as a strong leader he has to kill people, when really, a strong leader would do what he wanted and not what others wanted.

Conspiring in the murders of the millers' boys was an atrocious crime but Ramsay deserves more blame (I also like your insight into Ramsay and Reek's relationship). Theon is suffering for crimes he did not commit but he still screwed the Starks anyway by taking WF. Still, he didn't deserve what Ramsay did to him. Manderly and Robett Glover know that Theon wasn't responsible for WF burning and know that he didn't kill the Stark boys. I hope he has no more suffering, even if that means a quick death the way Asha pleads for.

yep exactly! the problem is partly that he's never learned how to be a leader, in fact, he's spent half his life teaching himself things that would not make him a good leader. it's not just the romanticizing and the low self esteem (though they do play a big part) but it's also the whole pretending to be someone else in order to please others, because like you say, he kills people because he thinks it's what his men want from him, he's trying to please them. while he's supposed to be a leader, he's supposed to make the decisions, but in a sense he's allowing his men to make decisions for him (though thank god not all the time! and it's important to note when not, well when a girl gets raped, when one of his men propose to kill innocent citizens... that's when he doesn't allow them to walk alover him. despite his claim off "it's better to be seen as cruel then weak" he is trying to be seen as cruel, but he actually can't stomach it) it's really sad, I think that under different circemstances theon could have been a good and just leader but life shaped him to be a follower who coped in silence rather then fought (not that he could fight).

I find it really sad that theon, in some way, played a part in robb's death and that he is the bolton's scapegoat for the entire betrayal. it's really ironic and tragic if you think about it. because robb was arguably the most important person on theon's life and theon did really love him. he never meant for anything to happen to him, but the whole north probably thinks he did and he has no way to defend himself (and even if he would, no one would believe him. for now at least, I hope that'll change in the next book!)

to go a little deeper in to the ramsay and reek thing (I have actually written an entire essay on ramsay and theon's relationship as well so there's a lot more to say about them but I'll try to keep it short) I find it especially fascinating that ramsay seems to not be able to let go fo Reek, Reek dies because of him and when he tells theon he seems to find it rather funny. but on the other hand, he choses to turn theon into his new reek and more importantly, doesn't distingesh between the two reeks (while knowing perfectly well they're two different people) in the first reek chapter Ramsay says “Reek has been with me since I was a boy. My lord father gave him to me as a token of his love.” he is deliberatly pretending like they are the same person. ramsay is, just like theon used to do, lying to himself to try and make himself believe. and in that same sentence he does something else that theon used to do "as a token of his love" we all know that Roose doesn't love Ramsay, Ramsay most of all, but he romanticizes their relationship. and this is not the only occasion. there's also this:

“Has my bastard ever told you how I got him?”

That he did know, to his relief. “Yes, my … m’lord. You met his mother whilst out riding and were smitten by her beauty.”

we can only assume that this is something Ramsay told him, while being perfectly aware that Roose Raped his mother, he doesn't exactly hide it, just a few pages earlier he said to Ramsay "...before you make me rue the day I raped your mother.” I have a hard time figuring out why exactly Ramsay does this, but it's clear that despite the fact that ramsay's favourite playtime is to hunt and rape girls, he has a problem with knowing his father raped his mother (as in, he doesn't want to know) and he has a problem with Reek dying, despite pretending to find it funny.

theon and ramsay have surprisingly much in common, they both crave acceptance from their father, they both try to please their father by acting how they think a greyjoy/Bolton is supposed to act and evendently fail at it (partly due to their personality and partly due to growing up somewhere else) and they even have a simular way of dealing with these issues. however I think that Ramsay has antisocial personality disorder, narcessistic personality disorder and sadistic personality disorder (I made another post on that) and theon developed stockholm syndrome (both with the starks and with ramsay)

[INCBlackbird]

Fantastic post! I loved Theon but honestly couldnt really see the point of him turning reek. It felt like it wasnt really fitting in his character arc (was actually gonna make a thread on it to see what you guys thought)

This totally puts it in a new perspective tho. Awesome!

thank you very much :) yeah, I think there's a lot of symbolism behind theon becoming Reek.

- the literal translation of theon not really knowing who he is.

- the fact that a name is very important to theon because he's always based the personality he put on himself on his name, rather then being himself. "you have to know your name"

- I also think that Theon giving into Ramsay and taking on the name of Reek can be seen as his symbolic death, while saving Jeyne can be seen as his symbolic rebirth because that's when he fully reclaims his own name (except he's Theon now, the real one, that one who isn't pretending to be the greyjoy heir) and I hope the "rises again, harder and stronger" will be symbolised in twow somehow :)

[Attitude]

Great topic! Loved it when I read it. Since Theon had a POV al the time (iirc) I think he will rise again and even stronger (after I've read this!)

[Rhaegar the Dragon Prince]

That was amazing. I'm guessing you're a student of psychology. Please post your future writings :thumbsup:

[Hath4]

I do not think Ramsay is upset about losing reek, he is upset that he lost his domination over a human being. Ramsay loves to fully dominate a person mentally and psychically. As Ramsay said reek knew better than to defy him. When he saw theon in winterfell he saw another chance to fully dominate. That is why theon becomes the new reek, due to Ramsays need to dominate.

[INCBlackbird]

Great topic! Loved it when I read it. Since Theon had a POV al the time (iirc) I think he will rise again and even stronger (after I've read this!)

thank you so much :) and yeah, I really hope that's what's gonna happen. I'm terrified I'm wrong about that though! but I guess we'll find out :) I think there's defenitly a lot of references to that saying! and it would be rather ironic if the one greyjoy that was shunned by his family and not seen as a true greyjoy gets to be the one that rises again harder and stronger :)