LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Harys Swyft is in Braavos as master of coin, if you replace him during his negotiations with the IB, you will certainly piss them off even further. I mean why should they talk to Harys Swyft if he sin't master of coins, when he isn't even in power to pay them or do anything. Mace Tyrell isn't the brightest guy around, but I can't imagine that he is so stupid to anger the IB. Paxter Redwyne is master of ships although he isn't in KL, you don't lose your office just because you aren't in KL anymore. how do you know he is still master of coin? you could send an official negotiator. I mean, you still have to pay bills back home, you can´t just stop having a master of coin, because you sent him to Braavos.. either way someone has to replace him in his day to day duties, that one should obviously be Garth Tyrell. It’s not the same, KL has no royal fleet since the BWBB and Aurane stole the new ones. .. there are no ships to master..if you don´t have a fleet, the Master of Ships is just a ceremonial title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bironic Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 If you just send some pawn to treat with an important institution, they will be offended. That's why if a negotiation is important, and the negotiation with the IB surely is, you always send the most important guy, hence it would be the Master of coin.It's the same in the real world: when Greece had negotiate with the Troika (IWF, EU, ECB) there was the finance minister in person there, not just a delegation of official negotiators.And I don't think the Tyrells want to irritate the IB further, by sending someone who isn't Top Tier VIP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 If you just send some pawn to treat with an important institution, they will be offended. That's why if a negotiation is important, and the negotiation with the IB surely is, you always send the most important guy, hence it would be the Master of coin. It's the same in the real world: when Greece had negotiate with the Troika (IWF, EU, ECB) there was the finance minister in person there, not just a delegation of official negotiators. And I don't think the Tyrells want to irritate the IB further, by sending someone who isn't Top Tier VIP. I could argue,but my point wasn´t about formal titles..i don´t care if Swyft is still Master of Coin, even if we agree that the master of coins should be sent to Braavos, someone has to replace him back home.. that someone is Garth Tyrell.. the realm must still be governed.. it still needs someone to pay the bills and collect taxes.. you can´t just send him across the narrow sea, and expect everything to keep working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antler's Fury Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I could argue,but my point wasn´t about formal titles..i don´t care if Swyft is still Master of Coin, even if we agree that the master of coins should be sent to Braavos, someone has to replace him back home.. that someone is Garth Tyrell.. the realm must still be governed.. it still needs someone to pay the bills and collect taxes.. you can´t just send him across the narrow sea, and expect everything to keep working. Sure you can, if its a short trip. Tywin went across the Narrow Sea on a trade mission to Lys for Aerys. He wasn't replaced as Hand. Jon Arryn went to Dorne for Robert. He wasn't replaced as Hand either. Stannis was on Dragonstone for several months, yet he wasn't replaced as Master of Ships. Littlefinger, on the other hand, was replaced as Master of Coin because he'd be in the Vale for a long period of time. It doesn't seem like you need to be in the capital every single day of the year for the lower levels of bureaucracy to work. There are tax collectors, customs officers, etc under the Master of Coin who will do their work even if the actual Master is out of town. At the time Tywin died there were 2 major Lannisters around who were informed in the first place: Kevan and Jaime, they are both gone. The only Lannister the red cloaks can turn to when they find Kevans & Pycelles body is Cersei. You are assuming that the Lannister guards will be the ones who find the body. It might be Pycelle's servants, since he died in Pycelle's room. Considering that Mace is Hand, they might tell him. Tommen is a little boy, Cersei is his mother. He will obey, or his kittens will share the same fate as Lord Eddard. Cersei doesn't even have access to Tommen anymore, thanks to Kevan, who is keeping them apart. Yes I agree Mace Tyrell could rip apart her paper shield. He should do it. But Mace Tyrell isn't Cersei, he doesn't want to shed Lannister blood. Looking at the things we know of Mace he doesn't strike me as especially ruthless. IMO it's out of character. Randyll Tarly is the real danger, he would rip apart that paper shield with a swift stroke of Heartsbane, but Randyll isn't in command. Mace makes his opposition to Cersei's resuming power very clear to Kevan, which is why Kevan has to explicitly say that he is separating Cersei from Tommen and replacing her guards. He will not tolerate her attempts to take back power, because she will dismiss him as Hand. I feel like the naming of a new regent will be postponed until Cerseis trial. She will win, and name herself regent within hour Mace and the rest of the SC will not back her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bironic Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 You are assuming that the Lannister guards will be the ones who find the body. It might be Pycelle's servants, since he died in Pycelle's room. Considering that Mace is Hand, they might tell him. Pycelle's guards/servants could also be loyal to the Lannisters since Pycelle was a Lannister supporter, hence they would inform the red cloaks and/or Cersei first. And there is still the possibility that Cersei grows suspicious after Kevan doesn't come back /informs her after he leaves dinner. So it would be Cersei sending someone after him, who then finds the bodies. And there is the possibility that Varys indirectly informs Cersei. Mace makes his opposition to Cersei's resuming power very clear to Kevan, which is why Kevan has to explicitly say that he is separating Cersei from Tommen and replacing her guards. He will not tolerate her attempts to take back power, because she will dismiss him as Hand. Ned Stark was also firmly in opposition of Cerseis take over. That doesn't make him a guy that rips apart paper shields or arrests little boys or queen mums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antler's Fury Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Pycelle's guards/servants could also be loyal to the Lannisters since Pycelle was a Lannister supporter, hence they would inform the red cloaks and/or Cersei first. And there is still the possibility that Cersei grows suspicious after Kevan doesn't come back /informs her after he leaves dinner. So it would be Cersei sending someone after him, who then finds the bodies. And there is the possibility that Varys indirectly informs Cersei. Ned Stark was also firmly in opposition of Cerseis take over. That doesn't make him a guy that rips apart paper shields or arrests little boys or queen mums. Even she is informed first, Mace will still oppose her and he has more force at his disposal. Cersei will dismiss him as Hand, and Mace is not going to take that lying down. Furthermore, even Ned Stark was trying to have Cersei and her kids arrested when she tried to seize the regency from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Sure you can, if its a short trip. Tywin went across the Narrow Sea on a trade mission to Lys for Aerys. He wasn't replaced as Hand. Jon Arryn went to Dorne for Robert. He wasn't replaced as Hand either. Stannis was on Dragonstone for several months, yet he wasn't replaced as Master of Ships. Littlefinger, on the other hand, was replaced as Master of Coin because he'd be in the Vale for a long period of time. It doesn't seem like you need to be in the capital every single day of the year for the lower levels of bureaucracy to work. There are tax collectors, customs officers, etc under the Master of Coin who will do their work even if the actual Master is out of town. }good points. i still think Mace will bring Garth to KL.. its just a recurrent thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antler's Fury Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 }good points. i still think Mace will bring Garth to KL.. its just a recurrent thing. Oh I agree that he will try to, but it seems like that will probably happen after Harys fails in his mission to Braavos. Mace can't fire him before then because the trip to the bank needs to be done urgently, before Garth can arrive, but afterwards, he has the perfect excuse to fire Harys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOne-EyedHound Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Euron will take the big step and conquer Highgarden, forcing Mace, and most of his forces to leave KL. Ceresi will probably call for Casterly's rock's aid, and convince his grace to make her regent. Maybe the right time for Aegon's attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry the Hair Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Should she be declared innocent, which she probably will, she'll regain her status as Queen Regent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myufa Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Should she be declared innocent, which she probably will, she'll regain her status as Queen Regent. Nope. There are too many witnesses. She either gets executed or taken by Aegon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myufa Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Sorry double post, ignore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry the Hair Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Nope. There are too many witnesses. She either gets executed or taken by Aegon. Varys killed off Kevan in order for Cersei to become regent again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myufa Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 But Varys isn't omnipotent. And it's not so much Cersei he needs as much as for KL to lack Lannister supporters. This opens the door for the Tyrells to turn cloaks. Cersei can't become regent with the Tyrell stuffed court especially after her little conflict with Margaery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry the Hair Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 But Varys isn't omnipotent. And it's not so much Cersei he needs as much as for KL to lack Lannister supporters. This opens the door for the Tyrells to turn cloaks. Cersei can't become regent with the Tyrell stuffed court especially after her little conflict with Margaery Margaery is still awaiting trial. Before getting to Cersei the Tyrells will have to get through the faith militant. Cersei still has a part to play. LF's plots also rely on her screwing things up even further which she could only do if she regains her power as regent. The whole story hinges on having an incompetent ruler in KL which would open up the door for future conquests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antler's Fury Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Margaery is still awaiting trial. Before getting to Cersei the Tyrells will have to get through the faith militant. Cersei still has a part to play. LF's plots also rely on her screwing things up even further which she could only do if she regains her power as regent. LF actually didn't anticipate that Cersei's rule would collapse as quickly as it did. So if anything, he would be more favorable to a slower collapse of the Lannister govt. In any case, LF has no control over what happens in KL. The whole story hinges on having an incompetent ruler in KL which would open up the door for future conquests. Varys actually benefits if Cersei is executed because it casts aspersion on Tommen's legitimacy and potentially provokes conflict between the Lannisters, Tyrells, and the Faith, possibly making the entire govt collapse. Varys needed an incompetent govt to limp along as long as Aegon was preparing to invade Westeros, but now that Aegon has landed, he would benefit from rule in KL collapsing completely, weakening resistance against Aegon and helping him sweep in and take over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry the Hair Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 If Cersei is executed the Tyrells take over, that won't benefit Varys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myufa Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 If Cersei is executed the Tyrells take over, that won't benefit Varys.Varys want Aegon in power. For Aegon to take Westeros the Tyrell alliance is crucial. Dorne and the golden company can take Westeros alone, especially against the Tyrells so it must be with them. Therefore getting rid of the Lannisters to free up the Tyrells is the only logical move. So Varys wants her gone now. And even if LF has any influence over KL right now (not denying it just not sure) then he doesn't need Cersei either because (correct me if I'm wrong) she denied him Sansa. And if I am wrong (I can't perfectly remember that) there's one thing I'm absolutely sure of: LF wants to take the Vale into war. Probably against the RL because he has Sansa to press her claim over what not, he has lords who have been longing for war all summer, and he wants power. Cersei wouldn't let him do that, and she wouldn't make it more convinient because she is paranoid and would have the westerlands armies fight him immediately. No matter what plans they had for her, it all changed when the faith took her and she got paraded. Now they need her out because she is a liability. Everyone hates her that hate is spreading becoming louder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry the Hair Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Why would the Tyrells side with Aegon when Margaery is already married to Tommen? It's in their best interest to get rid of Cersei and keep Tommen around as a puppet king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myufa Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Well Tommen dies eventually. And even then they haven't consummated the marriage. I assume that in the beginning or middle of the next book Cersei and Tommen die, the Tyrells give Aegon KL and Margaery, and then the war is Stannis in the north against Aegon in the south against Euron in the West against Dany from the sky. And then eventually the others cross the wall and fuck shit up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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