Benjen lives

[Staenerys Stargaryen]

So currently rereading Clash and in one of Bran's chapters he mentions his uncle Benjen.

Quote:(p. 327)

And now they were all gone. It was if some cruel God had reached down with a great hand and swept them all away, the girls to captivity, Jon to the wall, Robb and mother to war, King Robert and Father to their graves, and perhaps Uncle Benjen as well...

Even down on the benches, there were new men at the tables. Joey was dead, and Fat Tom, and Porther, Alyn, Desmond, Hullen who had been master of horse, Harwin his son...

I found it odd that the use of the ... Was repeated and then it occurred to me that Harwin is not actually dead, though he does not resurface until Arya meets up with the Brotherhood without Banners.

So the text connection with Benjen and Harwin is forshadowing that both are thought to be dead but actually survived.

I know this topic has been best to death before but unsure if this bit was brought up.

The Winds of Winter shall confirm my suspicions when we find a chilly Benjen somewhere north of the wall.

[Lady Blackmont]

It's ludicrous to assume that Benjen is dead. How does that service the story?

[Alaynsa Starne]

Good catch on the linguistic parallels. Personally, I think Benjen is alive, if only because we've had ample opportunity to discover what happened to him with not even a hint of where he disappeared to and why.

[Alaynsa Starne]

It's ludicrous to assume that Benjen is dead. How does that service the story?

Maybe this sounds stupid, but I kind of like the idea of an unsolved mystery. It's sort of tragically romantic: a man going North to serve an ancient brotherhood only to disappear in the wild. I hope Benjen won't be that case, but I don't think it would actually harm the story if he were never heard from again.

[Lady Blackmont]

I agree, just saying that it makes a lot more sense thematically for Jon not to find Benjen's body. Oh, he actually died fighting Wildlings, too bad, glad we had all that potential.

I think he will end up imparting some useful information on the Others.

[Alaynsa Starne]

I agree, just saying that it makes a lot more sense thematically for Jon not to find Benjen's body. Oh, he actually died fighting Wildlings, too bad, glad we had all that potential.

I think he will end up imparting some useful information on the Others.

I totally agree. My brother and I were just discussing Jon's chapter in Clash where he finds the cache of obsidian, and how I believe it was left by Benjen. My brother thinks it was Coldhands, especially because Ghost freaks out at the Fist (Summer doesn't like Coldhands) and Dywen says that it smells cold. But when Jon is digging up the cache, he assumes (as would most readers the first go through) that what's buried is a corpse. Jon says he expected a corpse, and specifically that he feared a corpse. Within the context of Clash, the would be the time in which the reader expects Jon to find Benjen's body -- especially considering it's a massive ranging conducted with the express purpose of finding Ben. However, what's found is instead a weapon to fight the Others. So the reader who was associating this episode with Benjen already with the expectation of finding his buried corpse, is instead meant to find evidence that he is alive -- which is strongly supported by the context of the scene. It's like GRRM was telling us that Jon isn't meant to find Benjen, but that Ben will come to him when he's good and ready.

[evita mgfs]

I totally agree. My brother and I were just discussing Jon's chapter in Clash where he finds the cache of obsidian, and how I believe it was left by Benjen. My brother thinks it was Coldhands, especially because Ghost freaks out at the Fist (Summer doesn't like Coldhands) and Dywen says that it smells cold. But when Jon is digging up the cache, he assumes (as would most readers the first go through) that what's buried is a corpse. Jon says he expected a corpse, and specifically that he feared a corpse. Within the context of Clash, the would be the time in which the reader expects Jon to find Benjen's body -- especially considering it's a massive ranging conducted with the express purpose of finding Ben. However, what's found is instead a weapon to fight the Others. So the reader who was associating this episode with Benjen already with the expectation of finding his buried corpse, is instead meant to find evidence that he is alive -- which is strongly supported by the context of the scene. It's like GRRM was telling us that Jon isn't meant to find Benjen, but that Ben will come to him when he's good and ready.

:agree: Good catches - I wish I could help more! My head's in evidencing my theory that Bran turns stone to flesh and resurrects Brandon Stark.

[Ruby Fforde]

I totally agree. My brother and I were just discussing Jon's chapter in Clash where he finds the cache of obsidian, and how I believe it was left by Benjen. My brother thinks it was Coldhands, especially because Ghost freaks out at the Fist (Summer doesn't like Coldhands) and Dywen says that it smells cold. But when Jon is digging up the cache, he assumes (as would most readers the first go through) that what's buried is a corpse. Jon says he expected a corpse, and specifically that he feared a corpse. Within the context of Clash, the would be the time in which the reader expects Jon to find Benjen's body -- especially considering it's a massive ranging conducted with the express purpose of finding Ben. However, what's found is instead a weapon to fight the Others. So the reader who was associating this episode with Benjen already with the expectation of finding his buried corpse, is instead meant to find evidence that he is alive -- which is strongly supported by the context of the scene. It's like GRRM was telling us that Jon isn't meant to find Benjen, but that Ben will come to him when he's good and ready.

I think it makes more sense for the dragonglass to have been buried by Coldhands. Doesn't it also mention that the cloak looked old and faded and that it seemed to have been buried there for a long time?...

Or I am creating extra details in my head?

[Lord Reaper oOo]

I think he is alive as well.

GRRM doesn't kill Starks off page.

[Visenya Stark]

This is not my idea. Another poster on this forum came up with this:

Theon dreams of a feast in Winterfell in A Clash of Kings. He sees dead people at that feast, including Robb (even though the Red Wedding hasn't happened yet). Benjen wasn't in that dream.

[Ruby Fforde]

I wondered about that too.

[Muggle]

I think it makes more sense for the dragonglass to have been buried by Coldhands. Doesn't it also mention that the cloak looked old and faded and that it seemed to have been buried there for a long time?...

Or I am creating extra details in my head?

I think the cloak was old but the cash was obviously freshly buried. To me giving more evidence that it was Cold Hands.

[Andreas88]

I think he is alive as well.

GRRM doesn't kill Starks off page.

Good point, he would make a big deal out of it and probably make it extra horrible one way or another.

[Alaynsa Starne]

"[Jon] knelt, jammed the torch into the ground beside him. The soil was loose, sandy. Jon pulled it out by the fistful. There were no stones, no roots. Whatever was here had been put here recently. Two feet down, his fingers touched cloth. He had been expecting a corpse, fearing a corpse, but this was something else. He pushed against the fabric and felt small, hard shapes beneath, unyielding. There was no smell, no sign of graveworms. Ghost backed off and sat on his haunches, watching.

Jon brushed the loose soil away to reveal a rounded bundle perhaps two feet across. He jammed his fingers down around the edges and worked it loose. When he pulled it free, whatever was inside shifted and clinked. Treasure, he thought, but the shapes were wrong to be coins and the sound was wrong for metal.

A length of frayed rope bound the bundle together. Jon unsheathed his dagger and cut it, groped for the edges of the cloth, and pulled. The bundle turned and the contents spilled out onto the ground, glittering dark and bright. He saw a dozen knives, leaf-shaped spear-heads, numerous arrowheads. Jon picked up a dagger blade, featherlight and shiny black, hiltless. Torchlight ran along its edge, a thin orange line that spoke of razor sharpness. Dragonglass. What the maesters call obsidian. Had Ghost uncovered some ancient cache of the children of the forest, buried here for thousands of years? The Fist of the First Men was an old place, only...

Beneath the dragonglass was an old warhorn, made from an auroch's horn and banded in bronze. Jon shook the dirt from inside it, and a stream of arrowheads fell out. He let them fall, and pulled up a corner of the cloth the weapons had been wrapped in, rubbing it between his fingers. Good wool, thick, a double weave, damp but not rotted. It could not have been long in the ground. And it was dark. He seized a handful and pulled it close to the torch. Not dark. Black.

Even before Jon stood and shook it out, he knew what he had: the black cloak of a Sworn Brother of the Night's Watch."

No, it doesn't appear that the cloak is old. The fact that it is still thick, notably good wool, and not rotted rather than thin, worn, torn, frayed, etc. suggests that not only was the cloak recently buried, but that it was new or new-ish going into the ground. That doesn't mean that Coldhands couldn't have gotten his hands on a new NW cloak, but considering that CH isn't introduced until the next book and that Summer doesn't like CH and Ghost is notably wary of wights and the potential presence of the Others, it seems unlikely that a direwolf would deliberately team up with a member of the undead by leading Jon to obsidian and more plausible that the reader is meant to consider the possibility of Ben having left the cache.

It's still completely possible that the cache was buried by CH, but I think the evidence more strongly suggests Benjen.

[Flackbish]

Reasons for GRRM to "create" Benjen so far:

1. He plays his part in an huge immersive World. It would be some Kind of strange that a old and noble house like Stark only consists of 7 People only so I think it was a good decision making him a Stark.

2. He tells Jon about the wall and brings him to the wall.

3. ???

Reasons to make him disappear:

1. Ben was respected by most of the NW he was first ranger and as far as we know he had no enemys at the wall.

2. Ben would have been the perfect canditate for LC. He had the exp. and was a Stark - which is a huge plus on the wall. Jons Story involves beeing LC therefore Ben needed to disappear.

I see no reason for Ben to come back. If he does and has nothing to contribute to the war against the White Walkers i would be dissappoited. lucky its not martins way of writing.

[Lord Conover]

My question to you. If Benjen is indeed alive, what are the implications for the story? What possible role could he have? He won't just walk into Castle Black at the beginning of TWoW and become Lord Commander. He probably isn't Coldhands. What could he be doing?

[Poppa Chase]

Notable parallel to the Last Hero. He led 12 men equalling 13 into the lands of always winter, while Benjen led 6, equalling 7. Unlucky 13 succeeded in their goal with only the leader surviving. Lucky seven has lost two of the total that we know of for certain.

I'm thinking Benjen made his way beyond enemy lines, in the haunted forest his men were attacked by wights. They made their way to a cave entrance and once inside realized the wights couldn't follow. So they searched the cave for food and found alternative entrances, a network of caves. He sent two men to go back to castle black and warn the others. The other four decided to range further into the heart of winter, and eventually the others died. Benjen may have eaten them to survive.

[Poppa Chase]

But then I believe he was captured by the others, and that they need him to cross the wall. He's a stark and a Bonafide member of the nights watch. Unlike the ones who swore their oaths to a septon, Benjen would have sworn to the weirwood tree. Other notables who swore to a tree, Jon and Sam. One of which spoke the words to a weirwood door that allowed him access, so I think we can assume that the weirwood is the real oath.

Does anyone remember when Sam fought Small Paul if Paul was going for kill shots? Or just trying to wrangle the fat guy?

[Alaynsa Starne]

My question to you. If Benjen is indeed alive, what are the implications for the story? What possible role could he have? He won't just walk into Castle Black at the beginning of TWoW and become Lord Commander. He probably isn't Coldhands. What could he be doing?

I didn't post the OP, but lemme put in my two cents: Benjen could serve the plot in a number of ways. Depending on the relationship of the Starks to the Others, of the Wall to Winterfell, and the cotf to everything else, Ben could play a vital role. He might be more important to Bran's story than Jon's and the NW. I suppose we won't find out until the end, assuming he is still alive, but there's a lot for him to do.

[Staenerys Stargaryen]

My question to you. If Benjen is indeed alive, what are the implications for the story? What possible role could he have? He won't just walk into Castle Black at the beginning of TWoW and become Lord Commander. He probably isn't Coldhands. What could he be doing?

Well it's up to our fearless leader GRRM to truly decide but there are plenty of things I speculate could come to pass with our lost wolf. I agree it is not likely for Benjen to first reappear by returning to the wall as if nothing happened. All of the watch, save for Jon Snow, believe him to be long dead by now, so despite the shock that castle black would surely be in by his return, nothing short of Benjen swooping in and saving Jon would make this scenario satisfactory.

We do know that two members of Benjen's ranging party have been accounted for, but the rest remain unfound. Leaving the possibility that if Benjen is indeed alive some of his crew may be as well.

Iirc Martin has mentioned that winds will take us the furthest north yet into the lands of always winter. My hope is that Benjen has made his way up there and is doing some sort of recon against the others. Might could be that he was taken captive by the others, although this seems very unlikely given the nature of the white walkers.

Little more crackpot of an idea. The land of always winter is kind of like the north pole of our fantasy world. So perhaps there is an unknown passage of ice that connects North of the wall in Westeros to some place in Essos. Perhaps Ibben which I think has been said to have wooly mammoth type animals. So Benjen could have made this long journey, somehow find Dany and lead her this secret passage way back to destroy the ice zombies with her dragons. Lol

There seem to be too many loose ends for George to tie them all back in with only two books to go, so I would not be overly surprised if we never see or hear about Benjen again bit I'm hoping for a comeback