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[ADwD Spoilers] Varys


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#1 sipho

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 04:05 PM

So from what Varys says to Kevan in the epilogue and what Jon Con thinks to himself about Varys and Illyrio we get a lot more information about what he has been up to in the past. We know he had a large role in the Young Griff project and we know that he wants chaos in the realm (supposedly to make it easier for Young Griff to conquer).

But this book actually really threw me off when it came to Varys. From what others have been thinking and saying it seems that he was part of the reason Aerys got so out of control. Pycelle seemed to think he was intentionally feeding his paranoia, and I'm pretty sure I've seen it mentioned elsewhere as well (i could be wrong). So does he support the Targs or not? If Young Griff is not actually a Targ, as have been theorized, then what is the motivation? He says to Kevan that Young Griff is good because he has been raised along with common people and prepared to rule, but I don't know it feels weird to me.


Also, about those dark eyed children with their daggers, should I know who they are? They seemed a bit creepy just to be his spies o_O

(sorry if this is being discussed somewhere else. i looked around quite a bit, and i actually signed up just to make this post.)

#2 Galen M

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 08:39 PM

Also, about those dark eyed children with their daggers, should I know who they are? They seemed a bit creepy just to be his spies o_O


Most people think they are his "little birds," but I thought they might have been somehow related to the others/wights.

#3 Ser Frank Haven

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 09:28 PM

Kevan was actually ruling the real pretty good. But Vary's thought otherwise I believe his little birds are wargs

#4 Reggie

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 09:36 PM

if the young griff isn't a targ, why would varys lie to kevan about it? from what varys was saying to kevan, he's been waiting to put a targ on the iron throne ever since the mad king was killed.

i'm not sure about the little ones but i have no reason to think they're wargs.

#5 Reggie

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 09:37 PM

Kevan was actually ruling the real pretty good. But Vary's thought otherwise I believe his little birds are wargs


yeah, he was the most decent of all of the lannisters.

#6 Selmy

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 09:54 PM

The whole Epilogue seemed weird. I thought I had Varys figured and killing Kevan seemed to go against his character.


Now, I just don't know.

#7 rhaze

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 10:04 PM

I think Varys really is about the realm. He has a strange connection to the children. Children are always the first and worst to suffer when kingdoms fall apart. IF he was against Aerys it would be because Aerys was crazy and needed to be removed from rule. Unfortunately that led to Robert, who was a bad king, but atleast there was peace. Then when the Lannister Stark problems arose, Varys, once again was looking for the peaceful solution that Joffrey turned on its head. War began. Now Varys wants to put the best possible king on the throne that not only will end the wars but rule well in the future.
Now, why would he want all this? Isnt money always the culprit? He is in league with Illyrio, Merchant Prince. Have you ever heard the phrase war and prosperity? Or how about peace and prosperity?

#8 Spooky Scary Jurble

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 10:06 PM

Varys cares about the children because he himself was probably the victim of war as a child. The best crackpot theory I ascribe to now is that Varys was castrated as a child to end the line of Blackfyres. His castration prevented House Blackfyre from rebelling again/continuing, but it mutilated him, obviously.

#9 Triskan

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 10:07 PM

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems pretty straightforward to me. Varys wants the Targs to regain power. A strong Tyrell/Lannister alliance around the boy king is the worst thing, so he needs the chaos. Kevan, as has been said, is doing a solid job of holding things together. That's why he has to go.

The bigger question w/ Varys is if Griff = Aegon or not. My money is that he is Aegon, but I'm not certain. I could see them playing it either way, but Varys is playing it for sure.

For those that think that there's some sort of warg aspect going on here, could you please explain yourselves? I don't get that.

Edited by Nim Chimpsky, 18 July 2011 - 10:07 PM.


#10 Sega AM2

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 10:09 PM

I like how Varys scolds Ned for causing the smallfolk to suffer when the lords play their game of thrones. "Why is it always the innocents who suffer most, when you high lords play your game of thrones"? But meanwhile Varys is causing Aerys to go insane, plotting to put Aegon, Viserys, or Dany on the throne, killing off Kevan, trying to have Joffrey and others killed off in riots, and generally causing other chaos. Varys is just as wild in playing the game of thrones as anyone else.

#11 Cinn-a-Bronn

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 10:10 PM

I think Varys was sincere in the first book when he told Ned that he served the realm. He doesn't support any of the great houses, really. The Targaryens are just the best vessel for him to do that with, atm. Personally, I love Varys. I thought it was awesome that this was the way that Martin brought him back into the narrative. It makes you wonder whether or not Varys had a reason for taking Tyrion out of the castle by the way that went near a passage into his father's chambers when a certain whore just happened to be in there.

I thought I had Varys figured and killing Kevan seemed to go against his character.


Varys is as ruthless as they come. He seems sort of like Ned Stark if he had no conscience... or testicles.

#12 Selmy

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 10:13 PM

Varys is as ruthless as they come. He seems sort of like Ned Stark if he had no conscience... or testicles.



Yeah I just thought that he was more interested in preserving the realm and protecting common people. Now he just seems to want to facilitate the Targaryens coming back, for apparently no known reason.

#13 Ser Frank Haven

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 10:15 PM

yeah, he was the most decent of all of the lannisters.

He did not deserve it

#14 Harry the Heir

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 10:16 PM

I think Varys was sincere in the first book when he told Ned that he served the realm.


So you think that he spent five books fomenting a bloody civil war that led to thousands of deaths because he wants to serve the realm? He may believe that he wants to serve the realm, but in practice he wants the realm to bleed.

#15 Ser Frank Haven

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 10:21 PM

So you think that he spent five books fomenting a bloody civil war that led to thousands of deaths because he wants to serve the realm? He may believe that he wants to serve the realm, but in practice he wants the realm to bleed.

For all we know it could have been population control

#16 Cinn-a-Bronn

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 10:27 PM

So you think that he spent five books fomenting a bloody civil war that led to thousands of deaths because he wants to serve the realm? He may believe that he wants to serve the realm, but in practice he wants the realm to bleed.


Sometimes a little blood must be shed to ensure a peaceful future. WW2 is one example. That doesn't really matter, because, as you said, he thinks he is. His personal motives were what I was speaking of. His ends are his own, and that is largely what this series is about; the choices that people make and their broader consequences.

Now he just seems to want to facilitate the Targaryens coming back, for apparently no known reason.


I don't think the Targaryens mean anything to him. He wants Aegon to be king because he shaped him into the man that he is for the purpose of rule. He says so himself when speaking to Kevan about Aegon and Tommen's perspectives on the right of kingship. Jon Connington and the Targaryens were in the right place at the right time, so to speak.

#17 Michael Jon Snow

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 10:29 PM

Varys is a Targaryean.

#18 lockesnow

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 10:31 PM

Varys could well be a Targaryen blackfyre bastard. His head is shaved in the manor of Egg and his cock was cut off to use for a nasty bit of blood magic that worked quite well (king's blood). He serves his 'family' but he's getting vengeance on them as well and reestablishing them on his own terms.

#19 Selmy

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 10:32 PM

Sometimes a little blood must be shed to ensure a peaceful future. WW2 is one example. That doesn't really matter, because, as you said, he thinks he is. His personal motives were what I was speaking of. His ends are his own, and that is largely what this series is about; the choices that people make and their broader consequences.



I don't think the Targaryens mean anything to him. He wants Aegon to be king because he shaped him into the man that he is for the purpose of rule. He says so himself when speaking to Kevan about Aegon and Tommen's perspectives on the right of kingship. Jon Connington and the Targaryens were in the right place at the right time, so to speak.



That doesn't make sense. If he doesn't care about the Targaryens and really just wants a peaceful and stable realm, he'd be better off with Tommen. He's already in power, and by all accounts extremely malleable.

#20 pleonasm

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 10:32 PM

The sad thing is Tommen under Kevan's guidance could probably have grow into the very King Varys wants to install my force.