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Prophecy - The towers by the sea


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#1 MindOfIceAndFire

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:24 PM

Had a thought before watching the recent video of Elio & Linda talking about Melisandre's prophesies.

It seems no one can come to a consesus about what the towers being swallowed by the sea part means.

Some people thing eastwatch but melisandre has said they didn't look like eastwatch, but then again we all know she's not brilliant at her predictions.

But I have another theory.

In COK bran had a dream that the 'sea came to winterfell' which was a prohecy for Theon and his Ironborn capturing winterfell.

This has got me thinking that maybe the Greyjoys will bring about the end of House Frey. Their sigil is the two towers of the crossing and the Ironborn destroying them would fit the symbolic nature of prophecy, much like the original prophecy of the dead direwolf with the stags horns stuck inside of it.

I then believe maybe Asha will become Lady of the crossing, giving a conclusion to her story arc and quest for power.

Thoughts anyone?

#2 total1402

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:31 PM

Does the crossing feed into the sea?

By Ironborn I assume you mean Asha leading a handful of ships and whatever men she has or can get and taking it in Stannis's name? Would be unexpected to be sure and a naval assault might take the Twins unaware. But I think Asha wants more than that and her arc...has stressed that she is a strong woman who can never get the respect of her people and is slamming her head against a brick wall trying to do so. I don't know where her arcs going. To an extent shes simply the narrator of what Stannis is doing in ADWD. Still she didn't go down without a fight like. How many bear islanders did she kill? I suppose if we argue that a character who has a bad time of it must have a good time of it then she might find some way of getting what she wants.

Couldn't towers by the sea also mean Ten Towers on the Iron Islands?



Edit


Actually heres another idea. the CoTF apparently used their greenseers to try and cut the neck. hence why its so narrow. Bran is growing in power. If he felt he needed to slow the Others advance, he could, use his ability to permanently split asunder North and South. This would, quite literally flood the Twins and kill thousands of people in a swoop.

Edited by total1402, 03 July 2012 - 07:34 PM.


#3 My_Arya_Spirit

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:34 PM

There has been so much made of killing a guest under the rules of hospitality that surely the Freys are going to get a special sort of ending.

#4 total1402

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:35 PM

There has been so much made of killing a guest under the rules of hospitality that surely the Freys are going to get a special sort of ending.


A biblical flood? I had no idea Martin was being so Old Testament all of a sudden. /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

#5 MindOfIceAndFire

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:38 PM

.

Couldn't towers by the sea also mean Ten Towers on the Iron Islands?



Edit


Actually heres another idea. the CoTF apparently used their greenseers to try and cut the neck. hence why its so narrow. Bran is growing in power. If he felt he needed to slow the Others advance, he could, use his ability to permanently split asunder North and South. This would, quite literally flood the Twins and kill thousands of people in a swoop.



Yeah i've thought in the past before it could mean Ten Towers, I just don't really see why that would happen, unless one of eurons plans goes wrong.

And i like the idea of the continent being split but I think if the prophecy was referring to this it wouldn't make such a focus on the towers. Interesting idea though

#6 total1402

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:41 PM

It would make Manderlys fleet at White Harbour hugely relevent and be a dramatic turn for Brans character.

Plus I think Martin knows that we want biblical vengence to smite the Freys down. What greater act could there be than if the Seven (as Westeros will see it) actually did drown them as the sea swallows them up. Would any talker of Frey pie be expecting that? Hence the focus on the towers and not the far more important emphais upon the rising waters. Plus we may assume that rising waters was metaphorical due to the first time round and not be expecting an actual flood.

OMG, Aeron Damphair is going to go insane if this happens. "The Drowned God takes the Freys! We must appease his wrath! It is a warning! Down with one eye!"

Edited by total1402, 03 July 2012 - 07:44 PM.


#7 Stallion That Mounts Texas

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:46 PM

A strong theory concerns House Costayne (Vassals to House Hightower of Oldtown). They are the lords of the Three Towers, and as it happens they are located on the southern coast of the Whispering Sound, on the way to Oldtown.

Oldtown is currently under siege by the ironmen. So it makes sense that this house may fall during the war.

#8 total1402

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:49 PM

A strong theory concerns House Costayne (Vassals to House Hightower of Oldtown). They are the lords of the Three Towers, and as it happens they are located on the southern coast of the Whispering Sound, on the way to Oldtown.

Oldtown is currently under siege by the ironmen. So it makes sense that this house may fall during the war.


Right before Samwell rallies the defence of Oldtown and hurls the Ironborn armada back! /biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />

#9 Stallion That Mounts Texas

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:57 PM

Right before Samwell rallies the defence of Oldtown and hurls the Ironborn armada back! /biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />


I'm sorry, but I don't see Sam rallying the defense of the greatest city in Westoros. The Hightowers are quite capable of defending their own keep. Baelor Hightower is noted as a great warrior. I think that job will be his.

#10 CKPS63

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 08:39 PM

I doubt it’s the Twins she sees – while she is not really sure that it is Eastwatch, whatever she sees is apparently SIMILAR enough to Eastwatch to raise questions in her mind. An it doesn’t sound from the books’ descriptions like the two could be easily confused. I also don’t think it’s Ten Towers – it is mentioned only once in one of Asha’s chapters and really doesn’t seem important or central enough to the story to merit a prophecy. Some other good candidates would be Pyke, Whiteharbor, or (crackpot!) Casterly Rock (we have, after all, been promised a POV there in upcoming books).
I also think that the vision of the sea overtaking the towers may be more connected to the Others (and to Cotter Pyke’s “dead-things-in-the-water” line) than it is to the Ironborn. Just because Bran's dream employed water imagery as a symbol for the Iron Islanders desn't mean that the more literal R'hllor visions will do the same.
On the other hand, since portions of ADWD run contemporaneously with AFFC, it's possible she's seeing something related to the Ironborn encroachment on the south under Euron's direction. The castle of the Hewett, for example -- the place where Euron sends Victarion after Dany -- is by the sea and is described as having "green-roofed towers."
Bottom line -- I have no idea what this vision portends, although I'm pretty sure it has something to do with towers and the sea!

#11 Miriel

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 09:04 PM

A very very minor point: it was Jojen and not Bran who had the dream of the sea coming to Winterfell.

#12 Apple Martini

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 09:16 PM

I like the idea that it's actually Pyke and/or Harlaw under a greenseer attack.

#13 Jovem Corvo

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 11:09 PM

OMG, Aeron Damphair is going to go insane if this happens. "The Drowned God takes the Freys! We must appease his wrath! It is a warning! Down with one eye!"


That would be SO cool!



This has got me thinking that maybe the Greyjoys will bring about the end of House Frey. Their sigil is the two towers of the crossing and the Ironborn destroying them would fit the symbolic nature of prophecy, much like the original prophecy of the dead direwolf with the stags horns stuck inside of it.

I then believe maybe Asha will become Lady of the crossing, giving a conclusion to her story arc and quest for power.

Thoughts anyone?


But the Greyjoys strenght is in their ships. The Twins are in the middle of Westeros, yes, the Neck is not large, and they could go walking, but their chances of success are very low UNLESS their attack will occur after the big loss the Frey House will suffer in the battle of Winterfel in TWOW.

Truth to be told, I had hoped that the House Frey possible (almost) extinction would happen by the hands of Tullys or Starks - it would be a great way for Edmure establishing his reputation as the Lord of Riverlands. God knows that area is needing care /cool4.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':cool4:' />

#14 Sailing the sunset sea

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 04:21 AM

Actually heres another idea. the CoTF apparently used their greenseers to try and cut the neck. hence why its so narrow. Bran is growing in power. If he felt he needed to slow the Others advance, he could, use his ability to permanently split asunder North and South. This would, quite literally flood the Twins and kill thousands of people in a swoop.


I like this theory. I have no idea if we are ever going to see magic of this extent, since even the children weren't powerful enough to split continents - so how would Bran as a single person manage to do it?

But it's a worthwile theory anyways. Who knows, the Wall will probably crumble and once divided, the Neck could be the next logical barrier. Assuming that "dead things in the water" doesn't refer to wights going for a swim...it's not clear if a small stretch of ocean is actually a hindrance to them.

#15 bent branch

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 05:06 AM

I like this theory. I have no idea if we are ever going to see magic of this extent, since even the children weren't powerful enough to split continents - so how would Bran as a single person manage to do it?

But it's a worthwile theory anyways. Who knows, the Wall will probably crumble and once divided, the Neck could be the next logical barrier. Assuming that "dead things in the water" doesn't refer to wights going for a swim...it's not clear if a small stretch of ocean is actually a hindrance to them.


How could Bran manage to do it? There are two passages that describe the destruction of Moat Cailin. This is the incident that total was talking about. The first was in a Catelyn POV in AGOT. In this mention, it is said the CotF called upon their nameless gods to send the hammer of the waters. The second reference comes from a Theon POV in ACOK:

Theon was about to tell him what he ought to do with his wet nurse's fable when Maester Luwin spoke up. "The histories say the crannogmen grew close to the children of the forest in the days when the greenseers tried to bring the hammer of the waters down upon the Neck. It may be they have secret knowledge."


Suddenly the wood seemed a deal darker than it had before, as if a cloud had passed before the sun. It was one thing to have some fool boy spouting folly, but maesters were supposed to be wise. "The only children that concern me are Bran and Rickon," Theon said. "Back to the stream. Now."


We now know that the CotF's gods are not nameless and that they are two greenseers called Bran and Bloodraven. I think Bran and/or Bloodraven may send the hammer of the waters again. Don't know if they will actually sever the neck tho. Also, I am not sure just where is going to be hit by the hammer of the waters.

#16 jsw2289

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 12:35 AM

Victarions arrival in Merreen is a possibility...
Although, i think i'm partial to the oldtown idea... i'm leaning toward it rep. the ironborn but who knows /dunno.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':dunno:' /> .
Don't like the COtF idea.. why?? that's just silly...

#17 Ciazio

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 07:32 AM

The offical History told us that the CoTF waterhammered the Neck from Moat Cailin in order to stop the First Men invasion (I believe that they actually stopped the Andals, not the First Men, since Moat Cailin was builted by the First Men... check the wiki about it: it's clearly an historical error).

In AGOT we have a Catelyn POV in which she describes Moat Cailin's towers and walls "scattered and thrown away as if a giant had played with them" or something like this.

I believe that Moat Cailin was destroyed by the Hammer of the Water (probably coming from southwest, since the Ironborn tales speak of the tsunami that destroyed the halls of the Grey King, leaving only the shattered bones of Nagga the Sea Dragon - a dead weirwood?).

Might it be that Bran, Bloodraven and the CoTF are going to waterhammer Moat Cailin again? I don't think that they are that strong, maybe they will use the Green Fork's waters to hammer the Freys down.

Or maybe the crannogmen are going to help them with some sort of magic...

#18 Alexander Stark

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 02:28 PM

I thought the Skulls could have been the golden company, like some kind of men long dead finally coming home, and the towers by the sea storms end

But i do also like the idea of COTF bringing the hammer of the seas down on something like they did with the arm of dorne or whatever it was called

#19 Apple Martini

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 11:52 PM

Don't like the COtF idea.. why?? that's just silly...


Why? They've done it before.

#20 chris999

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 01:30 AM

Had a thought before watching the recent video of Elio & Linda talking about Melisandre's prophesies.

It seems no one can come to a consesus about what the towers being swallowed by the sea part means.

Some people thing eastwatch but melisandre has said they didn't look like eastwatch, but then again we all know she's not brilliant at her predictions.

But I have another theory.

In COK bran had a dream that the 'sea came to winterfell' which was a prohecy for Theon and his Ironborn capturing winterfell.

This has got me thinking that maybe the Greyjoys will bring about the end of House Frey. Their sigil is the two towers of the crossing and the Ironborn destroying them would fit the symbolic nature of prophecy, much like the original prophecy of the dead direwolf with the stags horns stuck inside of it.

I then believe maybe Asha will become Lady of the crossing, giving a conclusion to her story arc and quest for power.

Thoughts anyone?


I dont know the answer, but I would love a link to the video you mentioned.