Calling all Direwolf / Dog Lovers / in ASoIaF

[Daemon Dagoghlor]

I know some people believe the direwolves are sent by BR, and that Ghost is, metaphorically, BR himself as a wolf, white fur and red eyes.

Imagine if Ghost and Shaggydog got into a fight and Ghost lost an eye.

[evita mgfs]

Ive seen the Bloodraven/Ghost parallels pointed out before too but i am unclear on just what exactly that means. Yeah Ghost does belong to the Old Gods and he seems to be the living embodiment of a weirwood. Red eyes, red face, white skin/bark and ever silent. Ghost communicates with Bran and Bran appears as the weirwood...Does this mean that Bran will be able to communicate directly with Ghost warged by Jon, through the weirwoods themselves? Are we gonna see another encounter between WeirBran and GhostJon? I havent quite figured out what Ghost resembling a weirwood exactly means yet. Ghost's albino nature could also indicate that Jon is part Targaryen. :idea: Omg! Maybe thats the Bloodraven connection!!!! Bloodraven is Brynden Rivers. A Targaryen bastard! Jon is theorized (with mindbogglingly strong evidence) to be half Targaryen as well! Most likely, a bastard!!!

m unsure about Arya actually being a stronger warg than Bran. Bran has trouble warging those ravens because those ravens already have a piece of a skinchanger spirit in them through Bloodraven and the Children. Thats probably why. As for Varamir's assessment of cats, wasnt it mostly shadowcats that were particularly difficult to warg? Or was it all cats? I dont remember. But since the cat on Arya's lap was tame and seemed to accept her presence in general, i assumed thats why it allowed her to see through it.

evita....dueagh! I never thought of Ramsay's....deal like that.. Its possible and...freakin' creepy. I could imagine wandering into the mind of Ramsay being very unpleasant indeed. There could be Stark envy.

Oh, I feel physically ill after that post, and I am embarrassed and want to delete it. I think it came from an ugly dark place because that sentence in Reek's POV bothered me to no end, possibly because of my own dogs and the poor girl, barely a woman grown, and even poor Theon. That moment I felt such sympathy for him and I never thought I would.

And, why a dog? Because he loves his bitches? I guess Martin is letting us determine the sex of the dog.

Well, I am not going there again. Seriously, if my post is offensive I do not want to leave it. I'd rather delete it. Yes?

Also, are you serious about your BR epiphany with Ghost? I did read a post where someone wrote one sentence, "Ghost is Bloodraven." Then we analyzed the circumstances around Jon going back to find Ghost. If Ghost is silent, was it a sound or an instinct or a force that prompted Jon /Snow to turn around and find Ghost. I quoted the passage from Bran's POV detailing the old gods marking those chosen to receive the gift, those marked by the gods are usually not robust (like Jojen and Bran; Theon calls Ghost the "runt", but I do not even know if he is from the same litter) and have red eyes (Ghost), or eyes golden like the sun (Bran's Summer). Summer has eyes similar to the Cof; Green eyes the color of moss (Jojen, not to be confused with the shade of Cersei's eyes, which I do not know if Martin ever refers to her eyes as "moss" colored, but he certainly repeats the color of Jojen's eyes enough to make me take notice).

So if your epiphany is sincere, then yes, you are spot on. If you are messing with me, it is easy to do. I'm not too swift on the uptake.

So enjoyed your posts! :bowdown:

[evita mgfs]

Imagine if Ghost and Shaggydog got into a fight and Ghost lost an eye.

I thought seriously Ghost warged by Jon Snow goes North to the ww grove or even toward RavenBran's cave, drawn there by his beast instinct which is telepathically connected to Bran, who very well may have foreseen his ability to communicate with his half-brother Jon through the weirwoods, even though he is told he cannot. Bran is that powerful of a warg - maybe BR could not do this, But Bran Stark, the student who will supercede his own teacher in greenseeing gifts, perthaps.

So, at some significant location, Ghost and One-Eye, who is V6S, who hated the bastard Jon Snow and coveted Ghost, a final life worthy of a King, says V6S - (ironic - Jon is R + J = J?), will meet ONE Eye and they will go at each other, V6S taking Jon's eye to make him a mirror image of One-Eye, or V6S the warg of exceptional skill. So Jon will symbolically be both like V6S in One-Eye with his exceptional gifts of warging seven odd animals under his warg command at once, AND BR with his one eye, who represents both a bastard and a Targ [added on edit]

Then, get this crackpot theory, when Ghost returns Jon's self to his body, be it living or dead in the ice cells, Jon will be revived or reborn as marked by winter, or by Ghost, who is Winter personified, snow (cold) and fire (warmth) or even better snow/white/winter = the Starks AND red/fire/warmth = Targaryan. Jon's hair may turn white and his eye or one eye may be red instead of grey.

Wow - don't know where that came from. My epiphany? or hopeless SoIaF groupie? or totally crackpot and off mark? :blushing: :dunce: :dunno:

edited for typo errors and spelling

[Florina Laufeyson]

Well, I am not going there again. Seriously, if my post is offensive I do not want to leave it. I'd rather delete it. Yes?

No! Its a good post! Perhaps spoiler tags if it creeps you out so much?

Im not sure i buy into the whole Bloodraven IS Ghost thing. More like it could be one of the reasons Ghost seems to parallel Bloodraven in appearance. I think Bloodraven IS keeping tabs on Jon but not through Ghost. I think hes doing that through Mormont's Raven. Check out the Mormont's Raven A Re-read thread sometime. I think Ghost represents the Old Gods and Summer represents the Children.

[evita mgfs]

No! Its a good post! Perhaps spoiler tags if it creeps you out so much?

Im not sure i buy into the whole Bloodraven IS Ghost thing. More like it could be one of the reasons Ghost seems to parallel Bloodraven in appearance. I think Bloodraven IS keeping tabs on Jon but not through Ghost. I think hes doing that through Mormont's Raven. Check out the Mormont's Raven A Re-read thread sometime. I think Ghost represents the Old Gods and Summer represents the Children.

:agree: I do agree with you on Ghost representing the old gods. :bowdown:

i always try to see everyone's viewpoint - and then really think about what I think. Although I often like to speculate with my own original thoughts based on my analysis before becoming married to someone else's.

Often, posters can make good arguements. I am still up in the air about Jojen paste.

[Dark Heart]

m unsure about Arya actually being a stronger warg than Bran. Bran has trouble warging those ravens because those ravens already have a piece of a skinchanger spirit in them through Bloodraven and the Children. Thats probably why. As for Varamir's assessment of cats, wasnt it mostly shadowcats that were particularly difficult to warg? Or was it all cats? I dont remember. But since the cat on Arya's lap was tame and seemed to accept her presence in general, i assumed thats why it allowed her to see through it.

No, Bloodraven explicitly say that the "a horse who was ridden before will accept another rider. A wild (untamed) horse will fight and buck you off".

And that all raven were "ridden" before so taking their skins should be easy.

And it's also interesting that Bran tries deliberately few times before getting it right and have a teacher helping him.

Arya's cat was a "untamed / not ridden horse", she wasn't deliberately trying to warg it and she had no instruction on how to do it best.

Varamir only says "cats". So, I'm taking it to means all kind of cats.

The cat was a one of the feral, street cats. So, it wasn't tame.

Cats liked her when she was Cat of the Canals and flowed her. But they weren't hers.

I'll repost the similarities I found b/w Nymera, Arya, and Queen Nymeria.

*snip*

I love everything you posted here. :bowdown:

evita mgfs :

I agree with your "Ramsay" post and think that everything in it is possibly right.

I just prefer not to quote it. The who situation is just :ack:

No! Its a good post! Perhaps spoiler tags if it creeps you out so much?

Im not sure i buy into the whole Bloodraven IS Ghost thing. More like it could be one of the reasons Ghost seems to parallel Bloodraven in appearance. I think Bloodraven IS keeping tabs on Jon but not through Ghost. I think hes doing that through Mormont's Raven. Check out the Mormont's Raven A Re-read thread sometime. I think Ghost represents the Old Gods and Summer represents the Children.

Agreed both about the post and BR thing.

Blodraven is not older then the Old Gods.

It's more likely BR and Ghost both were marked and in some way shaped by OG even before they were born.

[Little Wing]

Great thread and posts guys! Love talking about the direwolves and animals in general in the series.

I often wonder who's the more powerful warg - Bran or Arya. This is what I come up with when I compare them: Bran's connection to Summer through his third-eye opening is more of a spiritual, intuitive bond, while Arya's connection with Nymeria is more emotional, raw if you like - mirroring their humans, of course. :)

So, what I'm saying is that they are perhaps equally strong as wargs, but their bonds are somewhat different. Summer/Bran is more mellow, zen and Nymeria/Arya is open, wild, unfiltered emotions.

The direwolves are perhaps animal spirit guides and reflections of their humans, but maybe we can take this motif to animal sigils of other houses in the series? (but I'm sure it's already been discussed to bits)

[Jaime4Lyfe]

I, personally, believe shaggydog is alluding to literary terminology: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaggy_dog_story

In its original sense, a shaggy dog story is an extremely long-winded tale featuring extensive narration of typically irrelevant incidents, usually resulting in a pointless or absurd punchline based on a play on words in cliché form. These stories are a special case of yarns, coming from the long tradition of campfire yarns. Shaggy dog stories play upon the audience's preconceptions of the art of joke telling. The audience listens to the story with certain expectations, which are either simply not met or met in some entirely unexpected manner.^[1] A lengthy shaggy dog story derives its humour from the fact that the joke-teller held the attention of the listeners for a long time (such jokes can take five minutes or more to tell) for no reason at all, as the story ends with a meaningless anticlimax.

I think GRRM is pulling the wool over our eyes with Rickon, and in the end, he will be fairly useless/nothing at all.

[Little Wing]

I don't think GRRM would risk a plot line or character development to end up as pointless or as a joke, myself. Also, I think he had in mind that his fans will rummage this out on the interwebs and so we are kept wondering/arguing over what shall happen, not knowing for sure, in the dark as GRRM wants us.

[evita mgfs]

Great thread and posts guys! Love talking about the direwolves and animals in general in the series.

I often wonder who's the more powerful warg - Bran or Arya. This is what I come up with when I compare them: Bran's connection to Summer through his third-eye opening is more of a spiritual, intuitive bond, while Arya's connection with Nymeria is more emotional, raw if you like - mirroring their humans, of course. :)

So, what I'm saying is that they are perhaps equally strong as wargs, but their bonds are somewhat different. Summer/Bran is more mellow, zen and Nymeria/Arya is open, wild, unfiltered emotions.

The direwolves are perhaps animal spirit guides and reflections of their humans, but maybe we can take this motif to animal sigils of other houses in the series? (but I'm sure it's already been discussed to bits)

This I am bent on exploring. I just posted a thread on Arya and the Water in Braavos -http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/76013-arya-no-one-and-the-water-motif-in-braavos/

Bran is a force of nature in the heart trees.

Arya may be associated with a Water force, for I am adding up the marked references to her and Water, which, I know is trite, but often represents the amniotic fluid in a rebirth analysis. Arya strips naked and tosses all vestiges of her former self in the waters at the docks. She returns to the HoB&W naked, like a newborn babe, ready to become NO ONE and a servant of Him of Many Faces.

I truly think there is a connection with water - and even Howland Reed who keeps watch over the Grey Waters in his moving castle.

I think Arya, Bran, and Jon are following strikingly similar paths: Jon is or was the Watcher on the Walls; Arya watches her hits and studies them before she strikes; and Bran watches from the weirwoods through his 1000 eyes and one.

Then add Howland to the mix - who links with Arya and the waters of Braavos.

Arya is nearing Bran's power for she wargs a cat, a challenge according to V6S and Haggon, and then she visits Nymeria in dreams - maybe even wargs her - over land and water - there is that water reference again!

I'm on a mission to see where this leads. Yes, I think Arya is nearing Bran in powers, and once Jon wargs Ghost, he will begin to learn his powers as well.

[Light a wight tonight]

I know some people believe the direwolves are sent by BR, and that Ghost is, metaphorically, BR himself as a wolf, white fur and red eyes.

I hadn't seen this. Ghost being an extension of Bloodraven makes a great addition to my crackpot theory about Jon's Ides of March moment.

[evita mgfs]

I hadn't seen this. Ghost being an extension of Bloodraven makes a great addition to my crackpot theory about Jon's Ides of March moment.

:agree: Oh, yes! I have my theory about Jon warging Ghost and the whole Ides of Marsh scenario. I think Ghost, whether he is an agent of BR or the old gods, or both, for BR seemingly is, an old god wedded to the heart tree, which is what the CoF believe - that the weirwoods are the old gods - we get that from both Leaf and Master Luwin.

[Dark Heart]

Found the Damphair quote :

The Farwynds there were even queerer than the rest. Some said they were skinchangers, unholy creatures who could take on the forms of sea lions, walrus, even spotted whales, the wolves of the wild sea.

Wolves of the sea?

Pirate associations aside, "wolves" are almost always connected to Starks somehow.

And if there are skinchangers who warg sea animals shouldn't Arya and Bran be capable of it too?

[Larry of the Lawn]

Found the Damphair quote :

Wolves of the sea?

Pirate associations aside, "wolves" are almost always connected to Starks somehow.

And if there are skinchangers who warg sea animals shouldn't Arya and Bran be capable of it too?

Absolutely. Plus Arya is kind of an orphan and a street kid just like Jesse, the kid that wargs a killer whale in the movie Free Willy. You know, with the mysterious Indian and the Micheal Jackson song.

[Erudain]

I hate u all...now I miss my dog :crying:

[evita mgfs]

Please, go post these points in my Arya / Water thread. I want to follow my motif to Arya possibly warging a sea creature, and with her fascination with the Titan of Braavos, there is sooo much water - I think we can get there.http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/76013-arya-no-one-and-the-water-motif-in-braavos/

Now, I have a big question : why are the Stark direwolves always under house arrest or locked up when the Starks need them the most?

Robb? Grey Wind?

Jon Snow? Ghost? Ides of Marsh?

even ML locks up Summer and Shaggy dog in the godswood after they ravage the Freys.

[Little Wing]

Well, people are scared of them, they "belong" on the other side of the Wall, people are not used to them, and they are dangerous... so when there's more people about, they protest/don't wish to be near them and so it goes.... nothing special there, just a set of circumstances that I hope will teach the Stark kids not to part with their direwolves no matter what!

Those scenes always upset me so... Especially when Jon and Robb themselves decided to chain them up :bang: :crying:

[armidil0]

Is Ghost really a mute? Or is it just shy?

Because it would be badass to read of Ghost finally howling.

On the other hand, it could take away from his character.

[evita mgfs]

Is Ghost really a mute? Or is it just shy?

Because it would be badass to read of Ghost finally howling.

On the other hand, it could take away from his character.

One astute poster found a passage where Ghost did howl, but it was in a wolf dream Jon had and Ghost was alone for no one to hear him. So - it is like the riddle about the tree falling in the woods . . . No One hears Ghost, but Jon in his dream - and it may have been Jon crying out like V6S did in Floptail when his father killed him for killing Bump or Lump, V6S's brother.

[evita mgfs]

Well, people are scared of them, they "belong" on the other side of the Wall, people are not used to them, and they are dangerous... so when there's more people about, they protest/don't wish to be near them and so it goes.... nothing special there, just a set of circumstances that I hope will teach the Stark kids not to part with their direwolves no matter what!

Those scenes always upset me so... Especially when Jon and Robb themselves decided to chain them up :bang: :crying:

:bowdown: This is a wonderful explanation, Little Wing.

I hope it is not too late for Jon Snow and his Ghost, pun intended. :dunce: