Calling all Direwolf / Dog Lovers / in ASoIaF

[Lady Flandrensis]

Really interesting thread and great reads everyone! :bowdown:

[Dark Heart]

Now, I have a big question : why are the Stark direwolves always under house arrest or locked up when the Starks need them the most?

Robb? Grey Wind?

Jon Snow? Ghost? Ides of Marsh?

even ML locks up Summer and Shaggy dog in the godswood after they ravage the Freys.

Well, people are scared of them, they "belong" on the other side of the Wall, people are not used to them, and they are dangerous... so when there's more people about, they protest/don't wish to be near them and so it goes.... nothing special there, just a set of circumstances that I hope will teach the Stark kids not to part with their direwolves no matter what!

Those scenes always upset me so... Especially when Jon and Robb themselves decided to chain them up :bang: :crying:

Lol, no mystery there.

IRL I have a German Shepard.

When around people he's never off the leash. But people still act like he's unrestrained rabid tiger.

Think about all people you know who fear or hate dogs.

The imagine how they'd react to a wolf.

. . . and then imagine the reactions to a pony sized, incredibly strong wolf.

And in ASoIaF you also have NW brother heating Jon and Ghost because they see wargs as unnatural and as wildling thing.

Away from the North they are seen as almost mythical bloodthirsty monsters.

[Erudain]

Think about all people you know who fear or hate dogs.

The imagine how they'd react to a wolf.

. . . and then imagine the reactions to a pony sized, incredibly strong wolf.

Ahh who would be afraid of such a cutie pie....world is full of weirdos

[evita mgfs]

Lol, no mystery there.

IRL I have a German Shepard.

When around people he's never off the leash. But people still act like he's unrestrained rabid tiger.

Think about all people you know who fear or hate dogs.

The imagine how they'd react to a wolf.

. . . and then imagine the reactions to a pony sized, incredibly strong wolf.

And in ASoIaF you also have NW brother heating Jon and Ghost because they see wargs as unnatural and as wildling thing.

Away from the North they are seen as almost mythical bloodthirsty monsters.

:agree: Yeah, dumb me! :dunce:

I guess I think my gentle goldens are like the direwolves of House Stark (sick ASoIaF groupie, yes?)

I subconsciously want to project on them the gentle, loving natures of my dogs, which is absolutely ridiculous! Silly me! :bang:

[Belandra Waters]

I hate u all...now I miss my dog :crying:

Awww....:(

[starkalways]

Great topic, totally love dogs and have a german shepherd myself. People flip out when they see him, imagine a direwolf.

So what about Sansa, who no longer has a wolf. So one mentioned how each of the kids have a mirror image of their wolves. Maybe she would be perfect to be the politic Stark, where there is no room for wolves. With them altogether they will be unstoppable.

[Light a wight tonight]

I have an Akita (Japanese type, smaller and more refined-looking than the type more commonly seen) and when we walk her sometimes folks go out into the street to avoid us. Funny thing, she's a sweetheart with people, though she's dog-aggressive and hell on small animals.

I'd be leery of a direwolf, too. As would any sane person. Ghost might be cool, but Nymeria is a different story.

[evita mgfs]

IMO, any of the direwolves still wth us in body and spirit are possessive of their owners, as we see when Summer attacks the catspaw Joffrey sent to kill a crppled Bran, and when Ghost knocked Tyrion on his back for upsetting Jon Snow, and the way Summer and Shaggydog took a dislike to the Fredy wards at Winterfell, and more.

So in any future events, I imagiine they will remain close to their instincts and fight and even kill to protect their Stark Masters. :dunno:

[evita mgfs]

This brings to mind another point: Many have said, and I think I agree, that Bloodraven and the old gods have sent the direwolves of House Stark to the children because he could foresee their futures, and wanted to prevent some on the bad things slated to happen to them - maybe the annihilation of the Stark line if all of them die.

Ghost looks like the weirwoods that are the old gods, Summer and Nymeria have the yellow or golden eyes of the CoF, and so on. If BR and the CoF knew of some great end marking the Starks, I think they planned to awaken in the Stark children the seemingly latent ability to warg, once a part of the past Starks, the Kings of Winter and the Lords of Winterfell whose remains are buried in the crypts, very likely along with their direwolves.

When the dead Starks rise, I hope their wolves rise as well to all scream a bloody vengeance against the villains who wronged them. Just IMO. :dunno:

[Lady Flandrensis]

This brings to mind another point: Many have said, and I think I agree, that Bloodraven and the old gods have sent the direwolves of House Stark to the children because he could foresee their futures, and wanted to prevent some on the bad things slated to happen to them - maybe the annihilation of the Stark line if all of them die.

Ghost looks like the weirwoods that are the old gods, Summer and Nymeria have the yellow or golden eyes of the CoF, and so on. If BR and the CoF knew of some great end marking the Starks, I think they planned to awaken in the Stark children the seemingly latent ability to warg, once a part of the past Starks, the Kings of Winter and the Lords of Winterfell whose remains are buried in the crypts, very likely along with their direwolves.

When the dead Starks rise, I hope their wolves rise as well to all scream a bloody vengeance against the villains who wronged them. Just IMO. :dunno:

Yes! Yes! Yes!

[Dark Heart]

IMO, any of the direwolves still wth us in body and spirit are possessive of their owners, as we see when Summer attacks the catspaw Joffrey sent to kill a crppled Bran, and when Ghost knocked Tyrion on his back for upsetting Jon Snow, and the way Summer and Shaggydog took a dislike to the Fredy wards at Winterfell, and more.

So in any future events, I imagiine they will remain close to their instincts and fight and even kill to protect their Stark Masters. :dunno:

Not only do they react to likes and dislikes of their other half, but they instinctively know who to distrust.

Gray Wind tried to warn Robb. :frown5:

This brings to mind another point: Many have said, and I think I agree, that Bloodraven and the old gods have sent the direwolves of House Stark to the children because he could foresee their futures, and wanted to prevent some on the bad things slated to happen to them - maybe the annihilation of the Stark line if all of them die.

Ghost looks like the weirwoods that are the old gods, Summer and Nymeria have the yellow or golden eyes of the CoF, and so on. If BR and the CoF knew of some great end marking the Starks, I think they planned to awaken in the Stark children the seemingly latent ability to warg, once a part of the past Starks, the Kings of Winter and the Lords of Winterfell whose remains are buried in the crypts, very likely along with their direwolves.

When the dead Starks rise, I hope their wolves rise as well to all scream a bloody vengeance against the villains who wronged them. Just IMO. :dunno:

I think that BR is powerful but not so powerful that he could send wolves.

The way I see it in ASoIaF all goods give gifts and call their champions to them.

Years before Old Gods choose and shaped a tartg/first man baby to serve them and be a important part of the coming war.

That baby was BR (born looking like poster boy for OG)

Later they sent the wolves to all Stark (and another tartg/first man mix) kids in hopes they'll all be wargs and have important parts to play.

[Sand Snake No. 9]

I truly think there is a connection with water - and even Howland Reed who keeps watch over the Grey Waters in his moving castle.

Ooooh, I think I've detected another one of GRRM's shout-outs to other fantasy writers: this one to Diana Wynne Jones, author of Howl's Moving Castle.

I think that the colors red and white are the colors of the old gods, and red and white trees, animals and people have been marked as chosen by the old gods. The Ghost of High Heart, said to be a COTF, is also an albino with red eyes, for example.

[kissdbyfire]

Great thread and posts guys! Love talking about the direwolves and animals in general in the series.

I often wonder who's the more powerful warg - Bran or Arya. This is what I come up with when I compare them: Bran's connection to Summer through his third-eye opening is more of a spiritual, intuitive bond, while Arya's connection with Nymeria is more emotional, raw if you like - mirroring their humans, of course. :)

So, what I'm saying is that they are perhaps equally strong as wargs, but their bonds are somewhat different. Summer/Bran is more mellow, zen and Nymeria/Arya is open, wild, unfiltered emotions.

The direwolves are perhaps animal spirit guides and reflections of their humans, but maybe we can take this motif to animal sigils of other houses in the series? (but I'm sure it's already been discussed to bits)

Love your post. And all the other posts, and the thread!

I'm not sure if this will be comprehensible but bear with me... I've always seen the direwolves (all 6) and the Stark kids (including cousin Jon) as sort of the opposite of a skinchanged being. I mean, when someone skinchanges into another being we have two 'spiritis' temporarily inhabiting one body. I think the direwolves and the Starks are one being occupying two bodies. Does that make any sense at all?

That's why, IMO, each pair's behaviour is so alike. It's not that Shaggy behaves like Rickon because he is his direwolf; Shaggy and Rickon are one being. Both Bran and Jon think about it; they already feel and know this on some level, I think.

I like what you said about the animal sigils too. I think these sigils may be connected to those FM lineages that were more directly involved in the Pact.

[kissdbyfire]

This I am bent on exploring. I just posted a thread on Arya and the Water in Braavos -http://asoiaf.wester...tif-in-braavos/

Bran is a force of nature in the heart trees.

Arya may be associated with a Water force, for I am adding up the marked references to her and Water, which, I know is trite, but often represents the amniotic fluid in a rebirth analysis. Arya strips naked and tosses all vestiges of her former self in the waters at the docks. She returns to the HoB&W naked, like a newborn babe, ready to become NO ONE and a servant of Him of Many Faces.

I truly think there is a connection with water - and even Howland Reed who keeps watch over the Grey Waters in his moving castle.

I think Arya, Bran, and Jon are following strikingly similar paths: Jon is or was the Watcher on the Walls; Arya watches her hits and studies them before she strikes; and Bran watches from the weirwoods through his 1000 eyes and one.

Then add Howland to the mix - who links with Arya and the waters of Braavos.

Arya is nearing Bran's power for she wargs a cat, a challenge according to V6S and Haggon, and then she visits Nymeria in dreams - maybe even wargs her - over land and water - there is that water reference again!

I'm on a mission to see where this leads. Yes, I think Arya is nearing Bran in powers, and once Jon wargs Ghost, he will begin to learn his powers as well.

This made me think of the vow the Reeds say at the harvest feast in Winterfell. I have a feeling that vow is ancient indeed, probably dating all the way back to the Pact. Now, what if there's a connection between the direwolves/Starks and the elements present in that vow?

ACoK, Bran:

As the newcomers walked the length of the hall, Bran saw that one was indeed a girl, though he would never have known it by her dress. She wore lambskin breeches soft with long use, and a sleeveless jerkin armored in bronze scales. Though near Robb’s age, she was slim as a boy, with long brown hair knotted behind her head and only the barest suggestion of breasts. A woven net hung from one slim hip, a long bronze knife from the other; under her arm she carried an old iron greathelm spotted with rust; a frog spear and round leathern shield were strapped to her back.

Her brother was several years younger and bore no weapons. All his garb was green, even to the leather of his boots, and when he came closer Bran saw that his eyes were the color of moss, though his teeth looked as white as anyone else’s. Both Reeds were slight of build, slender as swords and scarcely taller than Bran himself. They went to one knee before the dais.

“My lords of Stark,” the girl said. “The years have passed in their hundreds and their thousands since my folk first swore their fealty to the King in the North. My lord father has sent us here to say the words again, for all our people.”

She is looking at me, Bran realized. He had to make some answer. “My brother Robb is fighting in the south,” he said, “but you can say your words to me, if you like.”

“To Winterfell we pledge the faith of Greywater,” they said together. “Hearth and heart and harvest we yield up to you, my lord. Our swords and spears and arrows are yours to command. Grant mercy to our weak, help to our helpless, and justice to all, and we shall never fail you.”

“I swear it by earth and water,” said the boy in green.

“I swear it by bronze and iron,” his sister said.

“We swear it by ice and fire,” they finished together.

Bran groped for words. Was he supposed to swear something back to them? Their oath was not one he had been taught. “May your winters be short and your summers bountiful,” he said. That was usually a good thing to say. “Rise. I’m Brandon Stark.”

The girl, Meera, got to her feet and helped her brother up. The boy stared at Bran all the while. “We bring you gifts of fish and frog and fowl,” he said.

“I thank you.” Bran wondered if he would have to eat a frog to be polite. “I offer you the meat and mead of Winterfell.” He tried to recall all he had been taught of the crannogmen, who dwelt amongst the bogs of the Neck and seldom left their wetlands. They were a poor folk, fishers and frog-hunters who lived in houses of thatch and woven reeds on floating islands hidden in the deeps of the swamp. It was said that they were a cowardly people who fought with poisoned weapons and preferred to hide from foes rather than face them in open battle. And yet Howland Reed had been one of Father’s staunchest companions during the war for King Robert’s crown, before Bran was born.

The boy, Jojen, looked about the hall curiously as he took his seat. “Where are the direwolves?”

“In the godswood,” Rickon answered. “Shaggy was bad.”

“My brother would like to see them,” the girl said.

Note also that immediately upon meeting Bran, Jojen asks to see the direwolves.

ETA:

by earth and water - Arya/Nymeria

by bronze and iron - Bran/Summer? Rickon/Shaggy? - doesn't work quite so well here.

by ice and fire - Jon/Ghost

[Little Wing]

Love your post. And all the other posts, and the thread!

I'm not sure if this will be comprehensible but bear with me... I've always seen the direwolves (all 6) and the Stark kids (including cousin Jon) as sort of the opposite of a skinchanged being. I mean, when someone skinchanges into another being we have two 'spiritis' temporarily inhabiting one body. I think the direwolves and the Starks are one being occupying two bodies. Does that make any sense at all?

That's why, IMO, each pair's behaviour is so alike. It's not that Shaggy behaves like Rickon because he is his direwolf; Shaggy and Rickon are one being. Both Bran and Jon think about it; they already feel and know this on some level, I think.

I like what you said about the animal sigils too. I think these sigils may be connected to those FM lineages that were more directly involved in the Pact.

Thanks, love your post too!

Yes! Completely agree. They are one. They belong. They are the children's spirit manifested.

The direwolves are there to help the Stark children in a time of need. Whoever sent them had a glimpse into the future perhaps and saw in what trouble the Starks are in, or how important these kids will be in the big picture of things. The direwolves may also serve as an ancient reminder that Starks are of the Winter, that the warging abilities they possess and prophetic dreams they have are there to remind them of their history and their roots, which have been forgotten. Having the direwolves at their side shows they are the players of the Game of Ice and Fire.

[evita mgfs]

Love your post. And all the other posts, and the thread!

I'm not sure if this will be comprehensible but bear with me... I've always seen the direwolves (all 6) and the Stark kids (including cousin Jon) as sort of the opposite of a skinchanged being. I mean, when someone skinchanges into another being we have two 'spiritis' temporarily inhabiting one body. I think the direwolves and the Starks are one being occupying two bodies. Does that make any sense at all?

That's why, IMO, each pair's behaviour is so alike. It's not that Shaggy behaves like Rickon because he is his direwolf; Shaggy and Rickon are one being. Both Bran and Jon think about it; they already feel and know this on some level, I think.

I like what you said about the animal sigils too. I think these sigils may be connected to those FM lineages that were more directly involved in the Pact.

:agree: Spot on, Kiss'd. love this as well. Arya exemplifies this when she is blind holding the cat who allows her to use his eyes. The upshot of this is that Arya can see in the dark - both literally and figuratively for she is blind when she takes the cat, but she remains sentient and not comatose. The same when she sees through the cat that the kindly man is the one who is hitting her with the stick, yes?

[Little Wing]

<snip>

by earth and water - Arya/Nymeria

by bronze and iron - Bran/Summer? Rickon/Shaggy? - doesn't work quite so well here.

by ice and fire - Jon/Ghost

Why not? I like this - Rickon and Shaggy are like iron! Wonder where Lady and Grey Wind could belong? Or maybe like this:

-by earth and water: Lady/Sansa - Nymeria/Arya

-by bronze and iron: Grey Wind/Robb - Shaggy/Rickon

-by ice and fire: Ghost/Jon - Summer/Bran

[Dark Heart]

Thanks, love your post too!

Yes! Completely agree. They are one. They belong. They are the children's spirit manifested.

The direwolves are there to help the Stark children in a time of need. Whoever sent them had a glimpse into the future perhaps and saw in what trouble the Starks are in, or how important these kids will be in the big picture of things. The direwolves may also serve as an ancient reminder that Starks are of the Winter, that the warging abilities they possess and prophetic dreams they have are there to remind them of their history and their roots, which have been forgotten. Having the direwolves at their side shows they are the players of the Game of Ice and Fire.

It makes a lot of sense.

V6S remembers his teacher telling him that taking a wolf is like being married.

And that's commitment for life.

Hm, you know that "The Land and the King are One." belief?

Maybe it's, in a way, true here.

The Stark kids are all descendant from Winter Kings (If R+L=J Jon is from Targ kings too).

They are connected to land (North) and gods (Old Gods) from their birth.

So, to make the connection stronger OG send them pups - symbol of Starks and of old gods (CotF say they are connected and will outlive the other OG connected things).

[Little Wing]

It makes a lot of sense.

V6S remembers his teacher telling him that taking a wolf is like being married.

And that's commitment for life.

Hm, you know that "The Land and the King are One." belief?

Maybe it's, in a way, true here.

The Stark kids are all descendant from Winter Kings (If R+L=J Jon is from Targ kings too).

They are connected to land (North) and gods (Old Gods) from their birth.

So, to make the connection stronger OG send them pups - symbol of Starks and of old gods (CotF say they are connected and will outlive the other OG connected things).

I think the Stark kids would make wonderful kings and queens, with the exception of Rickon mayhaps, but Starks need a bit of wild rage if you ask me :cool4:

[Alia of the knife]

Theres a lot of dog/wolf symbolism in this series that makes me think GRRM is actually a dog person. While theres people who really like kitties in the series, the canids seem to have more power in the story.

Direwolves link with the Starks. The Starks are a "pack" just as much as they are a family. The direwolves symbolize (in my eyes) the pack mentality, the fortitude against winter, loyalty, etc. When one member of the pack falls, they all feel it despite the great distances between them. That goes for the human members too. At the start of the series, all the direwolves tend to howl in unison along with the human members. Now they all howl in lament. Its a sad story....

Ill try my best to put down what i feel the direwolves symbolize for each Stark:

Grey Wind: Robb's wolf. Grey Wind is a leader. Hes among the biggest of the wolves and seems to be more alpha orientated. He senses danger many times in Robb's company. Robb is a leader as well. He was thrusted into being the lord of Winterfell and the leader of an army. Later, he becomes King in the North. They both die together.

Lady: Sansa's wolf. She is demure and calm. She obeys commands without a second thought. However, she is not without intuition and pride. There was one moment in AGoT where Lady just sort of trots up to (i think its Joff and Sandor) some people and goes "merrrrrrr........D:<" This reflects on Sansa quite a bit. Sansa is rather quiet, calm, and obedient. But when she is wronged, she harbors that wrong and it sort of festers... Lady is the first wolf to die. This is in parallel with Sansa's decisions at that point in the story. (leaning toward another "pack")

Nymeria: Arya's wolf. Hooo boy. Nymeria follows Arya without abandon and while Arya can get her to do things, she doesnt always obey. *cue adorable Nymeria gif from the show with cocked head* But she is loyal and was very reluctant to flee when Arya pushed her away. She is also fiercely protective and fights when Joff attacks Arya. Nymeria later goes on to form a new pack that seems to grow with each day. Arya herself splits off from the pack via force. (Yoren and Ned's death) She is on her own for a good while, but later on she forms a "pack" of her own. In fact, Arya does this nearly everywhere she ends up. Arya is also very fierce and loyal to her "pack" and will not hesitate to put the hurt on people threatening her and hers.

Summer: Bran's wolf. Hes a more mellow guy, that Summer. But he is strong and willing to defend his pack. (Laying the smack down on that assassin protecting Bran AND Cat!) He is the first wolf to be warged which shows that Summer is more open and intuitive. He also is close to Shaggydog, his brother. But Summer cant quite seem to grasp Shaggy's feral nature and neurosis. Summer's favorite thing appears to be running. Bran WANTS to be able to protect his pack but the loss of his legs make that very difficult to nigh impossible at times. Bran's favorite thing was climbing. Bran feels stronger with Summer around. I cant see those two parting anytime soon. Summer runs with a new pack he took while Bran learns about how to greensee with a new "pack".

Shaggydog: Rickon's wolf. Shaggy is very aggressive, feral, neurotic, and confused. These traits dont become apparent until after Ned and Cat leave Winterfell. Hes left to his own devices and often looks to Summer for some guidance, but Summer cannot offer much. This reflects Rickon quite loudly. Hes so young, hes confused by everything thats going on around him. He doesnt know or understand why his parents are gone and why Winterfell is in a bit of upheaval. So Rickon hides in the crypts and acts rather savage. Lack of discipline reflects on how Rickon becomes more aggressive and imbalanced.

Ghost: Jon's wolf. Hes an interesting guy, that Ghost. He is separate from the pack in a way. Set aside it seems. Hes also albino, but his eyes are open before the others'. He also silent. Interacting only with motion and touch. Ghost seems to go off on his own more often than the other wolves. It seems Ghost works more or less alone and a bit less conventionally than the others. Jon is a bastard of Ned's (or so we are told...) and is, in essence, "outside" the pack. But near it. He loves his siblings but feels he cant really be one of them. While Jon makes a little noise about it, he mostly keeps it bottled up. Later on after he joins the Night's Watch, Jon keeps more of his feelings to himself. While he finds a "pack" with the Watch and Sam, Pyp and Grenn (and later Edd), he still feels a bit alone. Even amongst the wildlings and Ygritte, he feels alone often. When he becomes Lord Commander (an "alpha"), that loneliness increases and he speaks little about it. He thinks outside the box though and works in a less conventional manner than other Lord Commanders.

Ill get to dogs a bit later on.

Great post Florina, and actually the one that stood out to me was Shaggy Dog, because you pinned him spot on, so thats why my concerns lay more with the likes of Rickon and Sansa as darker forces within the family.

Rickon may resemble as an adult some of the earlier Starks that the family doesn't like to talk about, kind of paralleling the Targaryens.

For all the "dark-path" hype Arya is on, she seems to adapt pretty well, especially in creating her own pack.

Currently, Nymeria is killing all the males that try and mate with her, so whichever wolf that is chosen by Nymeria might be an indicator to Aryas mate.

On kitties.

I have the best of both worlds, I have a twenty-five pound Maine Coon that thinks he's a dog- he even travels in a dog carrier because it's the only thing that will hold him. He also plays with a tennis ball. :laugh: