The Latest News
Connect with Us

Notable Releases
From the Store
Game of Thrones Night's Watch Weirwood T-Shirt
Men’s T-Shirt Weirwood
HBO US
Featured Sites
License Holders

Jump to content


Photo

Any theories regarding Jon's direwolf?


  • Please log in to reply
56 replies to this topic

#1 Roadside Rose

Roadside Rose

    The Roadside Rose

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,247 posts

Posted 22 May 2013 - 05:31 AM

I have always felt there is something symbolic to Jon Snow's direwolf Ghost being albino. It could have been a regular direwolf but it's not.
Is it symbolic of the Weirwood trees?
Or is there some symbolism here related to Bloodraven?

Are there any theories out there?

#2 Nictarion

Nictarion

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,388 posts

Posted 22 May 2013 - 05:33 AM

Ghost was the outcast of the litter, the one that didn't fit with the rest of the group, so is Jon.

#3 Mladen

Mladen

    Lady's Ghost

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,393 posts

Posted 22 May 2013 - 05:41 AM

I have always felt there is something symbolic to Jon Snow's direwolf Ghost being albino. It could have been a regular direwolf but it's not.


In nature, there is no such thing as albino wolf, which makes him unique. That could symbolize Jon not being Stark, but Targaryen.

I have explored the theme in my Ice and fire animal project, so if you are interested you can look there.

#4 Roadside Rose

Roadside Rose

    The Roadside Rose

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,247 posts

Posted 22 May 2013 - 05:44 AM

In nature, there is no such thing as albino wolf, which makes him unique. That could symbolize Jon not being Stark, but Targaryen.

I have explored the theme in my Ice and fire animal project, so if you are interested you can look there.


Thanks, Mladen!

#5 Morienthar

Morienthar

    The Blue Wizard

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,982 posts

Posted 22 May 2013 - 05:52 AM

In nature, there is no such thing as albino wolf, which makes him unique. That could symbolize Jon not being Stark, but Targaryen.

I have explored the theme in my Ice and fire animal project, so if you are interested you can look there.

The gene doesn't exist anymore because it died out,They used to born blind or something similar.
But I don't see the Targaryen connection though.

#6 Mladen

Mladen

    Lady's Ghost

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,393 posts

Posted 22 May 2013 - 05:57 AM

The gene doesn't exist anymore because it died out,They used to born blind or something similar.
But I don't see the Targaryen connection though.


As I know, there were never registred case of albinism in wolves.

As for Targaryen connection, it`s quite nice symbolism. Everyone else gets `normal` wolves, but Jon who got albino, which doesn`t exist. That makes Ghost unique and something more than just a wolf. It`s great foreshadowing of Jon not being wolf aka Stark but something more than that.

#7 therealbando

therealbando

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,458 posts

Posted 22 May 2013 - 05:57 AM

Wasn`t there a theory that said Lyanna was tKotLT, who`s sigil was a smiling heart tree? And that the heart tree`s color are the same as Ghost`s white and red leaves (eyes in Ghost`s case) and that this further proves that Lyana is Jon`s mother? I don`t kn ow if I read this here or somewhere else but I really liked that theory.

#8 Morienthar

Morienthar

    The Blue Wizard

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,982 posts

Posted 22 May 2013 - 06:07 AM

As I know, there were never registred case of albinism in wolves.

As for Targaryen connection, it`s quite nice symbolism. Everyone else gets `normal` wolves, but Jon who got albino, which doesn`t exist. That makes Ghost unique and something more than just a wolf. It`s great foreshadowing of Jon not being wolf aka Stark but something more than that.

I remember reading that the Albinism gene died out with the Honshu and Florida Black Wolf species....

As for the Targ connection,I see it now the bit of both thing is pretty evident if look into it...Good catch Mladen.

#9 Manderlay

Manderlay

    Quiet Wolf

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 833 posts

Posted 22 May 2013 - 06:11 AM

Ghost - Albino with red eyes, colours of the weirwood
BR - Albino with one red eye, colours of the weirwood
other than that I /dunno.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':dunno:' /> what to make of it, except Targaryen connection

#10 Mladen

Mladen

    Lady's Ghost

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,393 posts

Posted 22 May 2013 - 06:14 AM

I remember reading that the Albinism gene died out with the Honshu and Florida Black Wolf species....

As for the Targ connection,I see it now the bit of both thing is pretty evident if look into it...Good catch Mladen.


Perhaps. The literature I found said that albinism were never in wolf`s genetic pool and that nature took the care of it, because the wolf pups would be blind and die soon enough. We have white wolves, but we don`t have albino wolves.

#11 mindchap

mindchap

    Plumm Crazy

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,652 posts

Posted 22 May 2013 - 06:15 AM

The lone wolf dies while the pack survives. No idea of the implications, but ghost seems to be the opposite of runt of the litter. There is one chapter where Ghost is thinking about the others being weak and helpless. I don't have my pdfs right now but when I get home I'll find the quote.

#12 Morienthar

Morienthar

    The Blue Wizard

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,982 posts

Posted 22 May 2013 - 06:16 AM

Perhaps. The literature I found said that albinism were never in wolf`s genetic pool and that nature took the care of it, because the wolf pups would be blind and die soon enough. We have white wolves, but we don`t have albino wolves.

Yes they didn't survive long but it was supposed to be prevalent in those two species might even have pushed them to extinction.

#13 Mladen

Mladen

    Lady's Ghost

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,393 posts

Posted 22 May 2013 - 06:24 AM

Yes they didn't survive long but it was supposed to be prevalent in those two species might even have pushed them to extinction.


But, albinism is inherited by recessive genes, which would make the wolves carriors of the gene, so the wolf could have had a albino gene but didn`t expressed it. And although albino wolves would die out, the gene pool would still have albino gene. I don`t know, I am not specialist, but I would like to read that piece you mentioned.

#14 mindchap

mindchap

    Plumm Crazy

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,652 posts

Posted 22 May 2013 - 07:57 AM

The lone wolf dies while the pack survives. No idea of the implications, but ghost seems to be the opposite of runt of the litter. There is one chapter where Ghost is thinking about the others being weak and helpless. I don't have my pdfs right now but when I get home I'll find the quote.

He seems the strongest to me.

“Snow,” the moon called down again, cackling. The white wolf padded along the man trail
beneath the icy cliff. The taste of blood was on his tongue, and his ears rang to the song of the hundred
cousins. Once they had been six, five whimpering blind in the snow beside their dead mother, sucking
cool milk from her hard dead nipples whilst he crawled off alone. Four remained … and one the white
wolf could no longer sense.



#15 Groat

Groat

    Golden Hand the Good

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,661 posts

Posted 22 May 2013 - 08:02 AM

I always thought Ghost was not born from the dead direwolf when they find the puppies. Ghost was seperated from the rest of puppies, had already opened his eyes, and has different coloring. My theory, Ghost is a completely magical being similar to the dragons who was born from the weirwoods.

Edited by Groat, 22 May 2013 - 08:02 AM.


#16 mindchap

mindchap

    Plumm Crazy

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,652 posts

Posted 22 May 2013 - 08:16 AM

I always thought Ghost was not born from the dead direwolf when they find the puppies. Ghost was seperated from the rest of puppies, had already opened his eyes, and has different coloring. My theory, Ghost is a completely magical being similar to the dragons who was born from the weirwoods.

He crawled away from the others, and his eyes may indicate not just albinism, but that he is something like a seer as well. Bloodraven mentions that is sometimes a mark of them. Also that there time in this world is short. Again alluding to the lone wolf dies thing.

#17 Twilight Dragon

Twilight Dragon

    Sellsword

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 85 posts

Posted 22 May 2013 - 08:23 AM

That could symbolize Jon not being Stark, but Targaryen.

I like it, beacause I'm a followe of "R+L=you know who" theory.
But "to show him as an outcast" is most possible symbolism in my opinion.

Btw is Ghost the biggest of the dire wolves? Or summer is?

#18 mindchap

mindchap

    Plumm Crazy

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,652 posts

Posted 22 May 2013 - 08:28 AM

I like it, beacause I'm a followe of "R+L=you know who" theory.
But "to show him as an outcast" is most possible symbolism in my opinion.

Btw is Ghost the biggest of the dire wolves? Or summer is?

I wonder this too, because I could swear I read that Ghost is the biggest, but I have not found that passage yet. Something like him scaring the horses because he's nearly the same size.

#19 Morienthar

Morienthar

    The Blue Wizard

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,982 posts

Posted 22 May 2013 - 08:47 AM

But, albinism is inherited by recessive genes, which would make the wolves carriors of the gene, so the wolf could have had a albino gene but didn`t expressed it. And although albino wolves would die out, the gene pool would still have albino gene. I don`t know, I am not specialist, but I would like to read that piece you mentioned.

I'll tell you as soon as I find the book,I don't have a digital copy of it.
Edit:
I found it..
It's an old book Biometrika,volume 21 december 1929 Karl Pearson and C.H Usher
Albinism in Canines.
Excerpt
"The now extinct Canis lupus hattai and Canis lupus floridanus were known carrier's of the trait and were often known to display Albinism,The pups were born blind(Generally) and survived less than 2 weeks."

Edited by Morienthar, 22 May 2013 - 09:10 AM.


#20 Northbound

Northbound

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,193 posts

Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:06 AM

I was under the the impression that Ghost grew in to the biggest of them all, which is ironic in a way. There is no doubt that Ghost is different, just as Jon is. I have had plenty of thoughts and ideas on the future and importance of him. The first has to do, with him being silent. What if Ghost is the real Horn of Winter and is able to bring down the wall with a howl. Or, prehaps his howl could end up being like a Dragon Horn and able to subdue or calm a dragon? I have also thought that Ghost may not live through the series. Perhaps, he could be Jon's Nissa Nissa? If Ghost were to die and Jon live through the end, he would be absent a direwolf. But perhaps not...I do not think Arya will live either. Perhaps she wargs into Nymeria at her death and lives out her second life, beside Jon.