Rethinking Magic in ASOIAF Part I :Dragonbinders, Dragonbonding and Dragonlords. ADWD, AFFC and AGOT spoilers.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

This is a series of magical aspects in ASOIAF I will try and review, I may make some mistakes correct me if I am wrong :P, I am going to try and look at Red preists and Shadowbinders in my next part, but this focuses on the magic of dragon horns, dragon bonding and dragonlords, anyone is free to add anything they have seen in the texts.

This thread is inspired by a wonderful post by wolfmaid7 I saw a few weeks ago.

In a Feast for Crows we saw that Euron said he had a dragon horn from old Valyria and that it could bind dragons to his will.

I was always thinking of how that is possible since the person that blows the horn dies., from what we saw in AFFC.

This is the first time we see the dragon horn.

"That horn you heard I found amongst the smoking ruins that were Valyria, where no man has dared to walk but me. You heard its call, and felt its power. It is a dragon horn, bound with bands of red gold and Valyrian steel graven with enchantments. The dragonlords of old sounded such horns, before the Doom devoured them. With this horn, ironmen, I can bind dragons to my will."

It seems Euron got the horn from Old Valyria, we don't know if that is true, another theory I saw is that Euron got it from the warlocks in Qarth. It would make sense since they were waiting for the arrival of dragons.

Also Dany notes that the Dragonlords of old Valyria used dragon horns to control their dragons, Dany may be brainwashed by Viserys, but this account may be one of the true things he told her since it is coincidental with Euron's horn.

When the slave blew the horn he died but something else was heard by everyone else in the room and Morroqo and Vic's conversation hints about this.

“Much and more.” The black priest pointed to one golden band. “Here the horn is named. ‘I am

Dragonbinder,’ it says. Have you ever heard it sound?”

“Once.” One of his brother’s mongrels had sounded the hellhorn at the kingsmoot on Old Wyk.

A monster of a man he had been, huge and shaven-headed, with rings of gold and jet and jade around

arms thick with muscle, and a great hawk tattooed across his chest. “The sound it made … it burned,

somehow. As if my bones were on fire, searing my flesh from within. Those writings glowed red-hot,

then white-hot and painful to look upon. It seemed as if the sound would never end. It was like some

long scream. A thousand screams, all melted into one.”

I think in order to bind the dragon to you, you have to hear something, which is some sort of sound, song or dragonsong.

And I think the only things that can produce the song are the horn or a dragon hence "no mortal man shall sound me"

Now before I go into how the sound can bond you to a dragon, I am going to go into dragon bonding a bit before I come back.

GRRM recently had a reading at Bubicon, which I found very interesting as it gave us some highlights on the early Targaryens like Aenys I and Maegor I.

What I found interesting was that apparently Aenys I was a dragonlord/dragonrider, and he had a dragon known as Quicksilver. What I found more interesting was that Aenys the first was born as a rather sickly child maybe like Sweetrobin?

And when he finally bonded his dragon he became stronger.

This shows that there is something magical between a rider and his dragon, and that something passes between them since Aenys I had this magical occurrence.

Apparently the same thing happened to Dany in AGOT, I did not realize this until I saw the bubicon reading.

"At first it had not come easy. The khalasar had broken camp the morning after her wedding, moving east toward Vaes Dothrak, and by the third day Dany thought she was going to die. Saddle sores opened on her bottom, hideous and bloody. Her thighs were chafed raw, her hands blistered from the reins, the muscles of her legs and back so wracked with pain that she could scarcely sit. By the time dusk fell, her handmaids would need to help her down from her mount.

Even the nights brought no relief. Khal Drogo ignored her when they rode, even as he had ignored her during their wedding, and spent his evenings drinking with his warriors and bloodriders, racing his prize horses, watching women dance and men die. Dany had no place in these parts of his life. She was left to sup alone, or with Ser Jorah and her brother, and afterward to cry herself to sleep. Yet every night, some time before the dawn, Drogo would come to her tent and wake her in the dark, to ride her as relentlessly as he rode his stallion. He always took her from behind, Dothraki fashion, for which Dany was grateful; that way her lord husband could not see the tears that wet her face, and she could use her pillow to muffle her cries of pain. When he was done, he would close his eyes and begin to snore softly and Dany would lie beside him, her body bruised and sore, hurting too much for sleep. Day followed day, and night followed night, until Dany knew she could not endure a moment longer. She would kill herself rather than go on, she decided one night …

This part of AGOT was very emotional as a reader to see Dany go through so much to the extent that she was sick and was about to commit suicide, she was in an extremely traumatic state and yet the night she was about to commit suicide look what happened.

"Yet when she slept that night, she dreamt the dragon dream again. Viserys was not in it this time. There was only her and the dragon. Its scales were black as night, wet and slick with blood. Her blood, Dany sensed. Its eyes were pools of molten magma, and when it opened its mouth, the flame came roaring out in a hot jet. She could hear it singing to her. She opened her arms to the fire, embraced it, let it swallow her whole, let it cleanse her and temper her and scour her clean. She could feel her flesh sear and blacken and slough away, could feel her blood boil and turn to steam, and yet there was no pain. She felt strong and new and fierce."

And then the following morning....

"And the next day, strangely, she did not seem to hurt quite so much. It was as if the gods had heard her and taken pity. Even her handmaids noticed the change. “Khaleesi,” Jhiqui said, “what is wrong? Are you sick?” “I was,” she answered, standing over the dragon’s eggs that Illyrio had given her when she wed. She touched one, the largest of the three, running her hand lightly over the shell. Black-and-scarlet, she thought, like the dragon in my dream. The stone felt strangely warm beneath her fingers … or was she still dreaming? She pulled her hand back nervously. From that hour onward, each day was easier than the one before it. Her legs grew stronger; her blisters burst and her hands grew callused; her soft thighs toughened, supple as leather."

This is similar to what happened to Aenys I, he was a sickly boy and when he bonded Quicksilver he became stronger, just like Dany she was extremely in bad shape and on the verge of commiting suicide and when she bonded Drogon she became stronger and fiercer and wasnt weak anyomore, so Dany and Drogon's bond is not a maternal bond it is a bond of a rider and dragon.

How the bond works.

In Dany's dream Drogon was singing to her and look at the effects.

"She could hear it singing to her. She opened her arms to the fire, embraced it, let it swallow her whole, let it cleanse her and temper her and scour her clean. She could feel her flesh sear and blacken and slough away, could feel her blood boil and turn to steam, and yet there was no pain. She felt strong and new and fierce."

As I stated earlier I think this is the Dragonsong/sound that needs to be heard in order to be bonded to a dragon, and also the rider must embrace, now compare that to the sound the dragonhorn makes.

“The sound it made … it burned,

somehow. As if my bones were on fire, searing my flesh from within. Those writings glowed red-hot,

then white-hot and painful to look upon. It seemed as if the sound would never end. It was like some

long scream. A thousand screams, all melted into one.”

Comparing the difference to Dany's experience, it seems like the dragonhorn is meant to create an artificial sound to bond someone to a dragon, whereas the sound Dany heard was a natural call from Drogon, which means Drogon choose Dany as his dragonlord.

Now Dany not feeling pain in her dream doesn't mean she is fireproof, it would mean she successfully bonded with drogon hence after the dream she felt his egg was hot.

This also leads into the reason why targs gave every baby a dragon egg when they were small to increase the chances of them bonding to a dragon, probably some of them bonded but they didn't know how to hatch the eggs.

From maester Aemon

"I see them in my dreams, Sam. I see a red star bleeding in the sky. I still remember red. I see their shadows on the snow, hear the crack of leathern wings, feel their hot breath. My brothers dreamed of dragons too, and their dreams killed them, every one."

Just like Dany it seems Aemon might have had a similar dream and also his brothers aswell, and I think thats what led to targs getting obsessed with bringing dragons back, they had dreams that showed they bonded and probably tried to hatch the eggs.

Back to the dragon horns the conversation with Moroqqo

“And the man who blew the horn, what of him?”

“He died. There were blisters on his lips, after. His bird was bleeding too.” The captain thumped

his chest. “The hawk, just here. Every feather dripping blood. I heard the man was all burned up inside,

but that might just have been some tale.”

“A true tale.” Moqorro turned the hellhorn, examining the queer letters that crawled across a

second of the golden bands. “Here it says, ‘No mortal man shall sound me and live.’ ”

Bitterly Victarion brooded on the treachery of brothers. Euron’s gifts are always poisoned. “The

Crow’s Eye swore this horn would bind dragons to my will. But how will that serve me if the price is

death?”

“Your brother did not sound the horn himself. Nor must you.” Moqorro pointed to the band of

steel. “Here. ‘Blood for fire, fire for blood.’ Who blows the hellhorn matters not. The dragons will come

to the horn’s master. You must claim the horn. With blood.”

How I think the horn works is that you must hear the sound/dragonsong and then you must be the master of the horn to control the dragon.

How to become the master? I think in order to become the master you must "clam" it with blood as Moroqqo said, I think by blood it means Valyrian blood, which may mean people with Valyrian blood can use the horn to control a dragon, which gives alot of people a chance of controlling the dragons such as Brown Ben Plumm or even Stannis.

However at this point only Viserion and Rhaegal can be taken with the horn since Drogon is already bonded to Dany.

Aegon never rode his sisters dragons, nor did his sisters ride his.

This also gives a good theory as to why the northerners didn't skinchange Aegon and his sister's dragons, maybe they tried to but the dragonbond prevented it from working, however an unbonded dragon may be possible to skinchange.

So to conclude, I believe a dragonlord is a human that has been able to bond with his/her dragon either naturally like Dany and possibly other Targaryens or by using a horn.

Also it is always noted Valyrians used sorcery to bind their dragons, perhaps the dream of Drogon calling Dany was a form of sorcery.

[TheMysteriousOne]

Great theory. I think the majority of it is sound and plausible, and I completely agree about Dany being bonded to Drogon, but the point that I'm not too sure about is how you state that only those with Valyrian blood can effectively sound the horn and control the dragon.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Great theory. I think the majority of it is sound and plausible, and I completely agree about Dany being bonded to Drogon, but the point that I'm not too sure about is how you state that only those with Valyrian blood can effectively sound the horn and control the dragon.

Thats still a bit crackpot to me on whether only Valyrian blood can use the horn, the reason I was thinking that is because Dany had a different experience than Vicafer hearing the sound.

[SanderOfTheFaith]

Great theory, as for the horn blowing, I think it requires magic. Like when Mellisandre doesn't die from drinking potion. This might also explain why some Targaryans tried things like drinking wildfire etc. Perhaps it was a common misconception within their family as well that they are immune to fire (as a lot of people think). Perhaps the once that were capable of magic and could resist being burned etc., did it with a trick of magic and kept that knowledge to themselves (with a lot of rivalry, you wouldn't want possible opponents to know how to bond a dragon). Just a thought about that.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Great theory, as for the horn blowing, I think it requires magic. Like when Mellisandre doesn't die from drinking potion. This might also explain why some Targaryans tried things like drinking wildfire etc. Perhaps it was a common misconception within their family as well that they are immune to fire (as a lot of people think). Perhaps the once that were capable of magic and could resist being burned etc., did it with a trick of magic and kept that knowledge to themselves (with a lot of rivalry, you wouldn't want possible opponents to know how to bond a dragon). Just a thought about that.

I think another reason the Targaryens did crazy things to hatch eggs was that they bonded their dragoneggs and and couldn't find a way to hatch them so it got frustrating more and more over time until they started doing things over the top to try and hatch them.

[The Mother of The Others]

It's a nice read. A stray thought: both Targ examples you gave for "natural" dragonbonding were near the end of their rope when it happened. Mayhaps one has to be near death before the Songs from the great beyond can filter through to reach our ears? Mayhaps that's about to be good news for Jon fans, only with Ice instead?

Dragonbinding Rant 2013:

It doesn't seem entirely natural that a dragon would seek out a rider bond. It seems like a natural impulse has been diverted in order to craft this response. A dragon would look for a mate within its own species, not cast its eye humanward, which seems a poor substitute. Are we supposed to believe that dragons have a fetish for world-beating, so when they see a human with the same passion (conquerers) they recognize a kindred soul and that's the common link that makes these rare humans worthy in the dragons' eyes? Still, isn't the relationship more beneficial to the rider than the dragon, as the dragon becomes almost servile??? Not natural for a dragon, right? I mean, it's lowering itself to preside over human affairs when really it already was master of all even beforehand, so why condescend itself to human politics? It wouldn't. At least, not if all its factory settings were still intact.

So I'm of the opinion that dragons have been tampered with by the dragon lords of old, and that's what started this trend of Valyrians just happening to always be the ones chosen as riders, the ones who are receptive to the Song of Fire. As for how they accomplished this feat, I'm a believer in the Blood of the Dragon refrain being based in fact, not just a catchphrase. I think they gave themselves transfusions of dragon blood and then passed that legacy on to their heirs, so that their blood actually does call out to the dragon, prompting the dragon to bestow its Song bond upon them and not upon Ralph from the Quick-E Mart. Their blood is like a pheremone the dragon picks up on. THIS is the diversion of the dragon's natural impulse to find a mate. That urge is now sublimated, turned toward the human, the future rider whose blood strangely qualifies him/her for Song-bonding, or at least fools the dragon's senses into thinking so. This is why the dragon bonds with that human for life, as a dove might with its mate. And it may also be (in part) why the Targs' line of dragons failed---if the dragons considered themselves already bonded, it would have been more difficult to get them to mate with their own to produce more dragons. The dragon lords would be like China's zookeepers trying but largely failing to get the Pandas to reproduce.

Safeguarding this valuable alien plasma in their veins would also explain the Targs' incestual nature----they wouldn't want to give away the keys to the kingdom by intermarrying with other power-hungry families. And it'd also account for their firy dreams and their trend toward nuttiness when they can't handle the monster within. The best of the Targs, those described as True Dragons, are the ones who do manage to harmonize their minds with the dragonblood impulses, not necessarily by beating their inner dragon into submission but just by owning it and incorporating it successfully as part of their identity so a harmonious union of man & beast is made in them. And as a result, it brings out the best qualities of man & beast, making these rare souls highly functional in the human world, whereas those who never bring themselves into alignment with the dragon residue in their souls get torn apart mentally by their dragon-bonding heritage pulling them one way and their human wants and thoughts leading them in another direction, and those are the Targs who lose it and become an embarrassment for the family.

Now this is just me spinning yarns, mind you. None of it is based on any kind of specific evidence other than me looking at the entire series as a whole and applying the answer that'd make the most sense of dragon history as I see it.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

It's a nice read. A stray thought: both Targ examples you gave for "natural" dragonbonding were near the end of their rope when it happened. Mayhaps one has to be near death before the Songs from the great beyond can filter through to reach our ears?

It doesn't seem entirely natural that a dragon would seek out a rider bond. It seems like a natural impulse has been diverted to craft this phenomenon. A dragon would look for a mate within its own species, not cast its eye humanward, which seems a poor substitute. World-beater humans share the same firy spirit with dragonkind, and that's the common link that makes these rare humans worthy in the dragons' eyes? Still, isn't the relationship more beneficial to the rider than the dragon, which becomes almost servile??? Not natural for a dragon, right? I mean, it's lowering itself to preside over human affairs when really it already was master of all even beforehand, so why condescend itself to human politics? It wouldn't. At least, not if all its factory settings were still in intact. So I'm of the opinion that dragons have been tampered with by the dragon lords of old, and that's what started this trend of Valyrians just happening to always be the ones chosen as riders, the ones who are receptive to the Song of Fire. As for how they accomplished this feat, I'm a believer in the Blood of the Dragon refrain being based in fact, not just a catchphrase. I think they gave themselves transfusions of dragon blood and then passed that legacy on to their heirs, so that their blood actually does call out to the dragon, prompting the dragon to bestow its Song bond upon them and not Ralph from the Quick-E Mart. Their blood is like a pheremone the dragon picks up on. THIS is the diversion of the dragon's natural impulse to find a mate. That urge is now sublimated, turned toward the human, the future rider whose blood strangely qualifies him/her for Song-bonding, or at least fools the dragons senses into thinking so. This is why the dragon bonds with that human for life, as a dove might with its mate. Safeguarding this valuable alien plasma in their veins would also explain the Targs' incestual nature, and account for their firy dreams and their trend toward nuttiness when they can't handle the monster within. The best of the Targs, those described as True Dragons, are the ones who do manage to harmonize their minds with the dragonblood impulses, not necessarily by beating their inner dragon into submission but just by owning it and incorporating it successfully as part of their identity so a harmonious union of man & beast is made in them. And as a result, it brings out the best qualities of man & beast, making these rare souls highly functional in the human world, whereas those who never bring themselves into alignment with the dragon residue in their souls get torn apart mentally by their dragon-bonding heritage pulling them one way and their human wants and thoughts leading them in another direction, and those are the Targs who lose it and become an embarrassment for the family. Now this is just me spinning yarns, mind you. None of it is based on any kind of specific evidence other than me looking at the entire series as a whole and applying the answer that'd make the most sense of dragon history as I see it.

I agree I think near death in ASOIAF is a way of magic being unlocked in some way.

Just like Bran unlocking his gifts.

And I also agree that just like the First men may have dabbled in sorcery with the children of the forest to become wargs and greenseers., the Valyrians may have dabbled in sorcery with dragons and hence making "the blood of the dragon"

That could be a good reason as to why a dragon would call out one similar to its kind, which=Valyrians.

[Mrs.Grumpy]

Hmmm... I agree with Dany-Drogon bond, it was natural, and the hellhorn is meant to create an artificial sound. Good job.

I'm still doubtful about the hellhorn part :<

[TheMysteriousOne]

<snip>

This.

[juanml82]

Maybe there is a bit of crackpottery here and there, but The Mother of the Others and Queen Alysanne might be onto something. And it also means Danny's magical dragon dream which changed her character overnight wasn't cheap storytelling nor requires suspension of disbelief, which is certainly a good thing.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Maybe there is a bit of crackpottery here and there, but The Mother of the Others and Queen Alysanne might be onto something. And it also means Danny's magical dragon dream which changed her character overnight wasn't cheap storytelling nor requires suspension of disbelief, which is certainly a good thing.

Yea at first I didn't take that dream that seriously, I thought it was just foreshadowing of her hatching the dragon eggs, but after the bubicon reading of Aenys I I saw that there was something more going on here.

[Lord of Dragonstone]

By "You must claim the horn. With blood." it makes me think of a system sort of like the Elder Wand from the Harry Potter series, where you have to kill the previous owner to make it yours. Or in other words, pay the iron price.

A hint maybe that Victarion might end up trying to kill Euron to take true possession of the horn.

[Robin the Mighty]

Great, but only one problem, Dany can't really control drogo, so bonding is not controlling, you probably need a horn for that, so after you bond with a dragon, you also need to use the sorcery of the horn to control it, I thin this way makes more sense.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Great, but only one problem, Dany can't really control drogo, so bonding is not controlling, you probably need a horn for that, so after you bond with a dragon, you also need to use the sorcery of the horn to control it, I thin this way makes more sense.

Dany can actually control Drogon, I think he wasn't listening to her during the first flight cause she was using a whip and he didnt like it but when she didnt use the whip he seemed to obey her, also he seemed to read her mind cause Drogon had already eaten for days but Dany was hungry and he stopped to catch a horse.

I don't think sorcery is needed if there is a dragonbond, I don't think the targaryens used sorcery.

[King of Winters]

Dany can actually control Drogon, I think he wasn't listening to her during the first flight cause she was using a whip and he didnt like it but when she didnt use the whip he seemed to obey her.

If they were bonded then he wouldn't breath fire at her in the Pits in ADWD.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

If they were bonded then he wouldn't breath fire at her in the Pits in ADWD.

My assumption is that he was angry at her for staying in Meereen.

When Dany got angry when the pits opened thats when he came.

There is a bond I believe, if you read the OP there is alot of evidence.

Another point is that Dany was afraid of the other 2 dragons but she wasnt afraid of Drogon.

[King of Winters]

My assumption is that he was angry at her for staying in Meereen.

When Dany got angry when the pits opened thats when he came.

There is a bond I believe, if you read the OP there is alot of evidence.

Another point is that Dany was afraid of the other 2 dragons but she wasnt afraid of Drogon.

Yes, but if Ghost or Summer were mad at Jon or Bran they wouldn't attack them or try to because they have a bond.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Yes, but if Ghost or Summer were mad at Jon or Bran they wouldn't attack them or try to because they have a bond.

There is evidence that there is a bond.

I dont think it is the same as a warg bond.

Dragons are on a completely different scale of aggressiveness than direwolves.

Nymeria sometimes didn't listen to Arya in AGOT, if you want to compare the 2.

[King of Winters]

There is evidence that there is a bond.

I dont think it is the same as a warg bond.

Dragons are on a completely different scale of aggressiveness than direwolves.

Nymeria sometimes didn't listen to Arya in AGOT, if you want to compare the 2.

Well Direwolves are smarter than dragons so it could be that, but I think if Drogon was angry at Dany he wouldn't try and fry her. If he was just trying to scare her than he could have just roared at her, because of she hadn't have ducked, she'd have been fried.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Well Direwolves are smarter than dragons so it could be that, but I think if Drogon was angry at Dany he wouldn't try and fry her. If he was just trying to scare her than he could have just roared at her, because of she hadn't have ducked, she'd have been fried.

:dunno: Explain why he didn't attack her afterwards then.

I don't think you read the OP, if you did the comparisons between Aenys I bonding and Dany and Drogon bonding is enough evidence.