What was Robert thinking?

[Lord Bronn Stokeworth]

Dragonstone is the typical domain of the King's heir, thus Robert thought that by giving it to Stannis he was honoring him not realizing that Stannis is a little crybaby. Especially, seeing how Robert didn't have to give Stannis shit if he didn't want too.

I REALLY don't see why people think that Robert committed some great evil by continuing the Targaryen tradition of giving Dragonstone to the heir to the throne.

Except he never gave it to Joffery. As nara pointed out, he did it to piss Stannis off. A neat way to screw over Stannis while not looking like a petty prick.

And I say that as someone who doesn't hate Robert. He's not a Gary Stu. As he did a lot of good stuff, he could be a giant prick as well.

Actually, I think that last sentence could apply to all the Baratheon brothers.

[Minsc]

So why did Renly deserve a reward likely 10x as valuable for doing absolutely nothing? Stannis was higher up in succession and had proved his devotion to Robert while playing a key part in his rebellion.

He is Robert's brother.

So make sure Renly's castellan was up to the task. I don't see why it had to be Stannis. Just because the Targaryens had the custom of giving it to their heir doesn't mean Stannis should lose the Stormlands. For the Targaryens giving the heir apparent Dragonstone was very different, given that the holder actually expected to rule the IT.

Stannis never lost the Stormlands, as they were never his. Simply, if you are going to go with the idea that Robert should just appoint strong castellans then he could have done that with both Dragonstone and Storm's End thus granting both Joffrey and Tommen a region of their own.

[Minsc]

Except he never gave it to Joffery. As nara pointed out, he did it to piss Stannis off. A neat way to screw over Stannis while not looking like a petty prick.

And I say that as someone who doesn't hate Robert. He's not a Gary Stu. As he did a lot of good stuff, he could be a giant prick as well.

Actually, I think that last sentence could apply to all the Baratheon brothers.

Because, he had already given it to his previous heir and Stannis would have cried if he took it way from him. Simply, I don't see how that would make him a Gary Stu(we already have Rhaegar for that :P ). Instead, it just more his weakness in reading that his brother would somehow see that as some slight and instead of a honor like he expected.

[Rhymes with Weak]

He did almost starve to death within Storm's End, you would think that Robert would find it fitting to gift him with it. But I guess he never really liked Stannis much.

[Lord of Dragonstone]

He is Robert's brother.

So does doing actively helping one's brother make Stannis deserve a lesser reward for being his brother as well?

Stannis never lost the Stormlands, as they were never his. Simply, if you are going to go with the idea that Robert should just appoint strong castellans then he could have done that with both Dragonstone and Storm's End thus granting both Joffrey and Tommen a region of their own.

Maybe he would have done that, except of course that Joffrey and Tommen didn't exist at the time...

[Lord Bronn Stokeworth]

Because, he had already given it to his previous heir and Stannis would have cried if he took it way from him. Simply, I don't see how that would make him a Gary Stu(we already have Rhaegar for that :P ). Instead, it just more his weakness in reading that his brother would somehow see that as some slight and instead of a honor like he expected.

I think you're seriously underestimating Robert's intelligence. It's not exactly hard to see why someone would prefer the Stormlands over Dragonstone. But if his intention was to follow Targ traditions, then yes, he should have taken Dragonstone from Stannis and give it to Joffery. The fact that he does not shows he is not following Targ tradition. So, it kinda makes the argument kinda moot.

The Gary Stu comment was included because someone else posted a comment that seem to imply the people bashing Robert were all just haters. I do not know if that was the intention. But I figured if I was going to call Robert a prick, I should point out I don't hate him.

[Lord of Dragonstone]

Stormlands can muster 30 000 men? I always thought it is somewhere between 20-25 000... But, it doesn't matter... It was Targaryen tradition that Dragonstone is given to Heir Apparents, and Robert honored that. Plus, Dragonstone is strategically important if any of Targaryens would raise an army and try to cross Narrow Sea... Stannis' POV regarding this matter is completely wrong.

Is Stannis the only person capable of ruling Dragonstone? He was around 20 years old at the time, and Storm's End was the only battle he had been a part of. Surely there must have been similarly capable people who could have been appointed to over Dragonstone for Renly while Stannis ruled the Stormlands?

[Minsc]

So does doing actively helping one's brother make Stannis deserve a lesser reward for being his brother as well?

Maybe he would have done that, except of course that Joffrey and Tommen didn't exist at the time...

Stannis wasn't given the lesser reward, instead he was gifted the seat of the royal heir as according to custom. That is no different then the complaint that Dragonstone isn't a reward as he would later have sons both resort to him preparing for the future.

[Lord of Dragonstone]

Stannis wasn't given the lesser reward, instead he was gifted the seat of the royal heir as according to custom. That is no different then the complaint that Dragonstone isn't a reward as he would later have sons both resort to him preparing for the future.

The traditional seat of the royal heir does not make you one's heir.

[Minsc]

I think you're seriously underestimating Robert's intelligence. It's not exactly hard to see why someone would prefer the Stormlands over Dragonstone. But if his intention was to follow Targ traditions, then yes, he should have taken Dragonstone from Stannis and give it to Joffery. The fact that he does not shows he is not following Targ tradition. So, it kinda makes the argument kinda moot.

Robert didn't have to give Stannis shit, thus him giving anything was a reward. Simply, Robert wanted to reward both his brothers and it makes both better political and strategic sense to give Stannis Dragonstone while Renly gets Storm's End.

[Minsc]

The traditional seat of the royal heir does not make you one's heir.

Yes, Stannis' position as Robert's brother is what made him that. Thus, Robert gave him the heir's seat to hold.

[Mladen]

Is Stannis the only person capable of ruling Dragonstone? He was around 20 years old at the time, and Storm's End was the only battle he had been a part of. Surely there must have been similarly capable people who could have been appointed to over Dragonstone for Renly while Stannis ruled the Stormlands?

Again, Heirs Apparent were given Dragonstone... Robert was a King, and Stannis was Heir Apparant until Joffrey was born... I think this ois overcomplication of extremely simple situation...

The traditional seat of the royal heir does not make you one's heir.

Actually it does. As I recall, each Targaryen Prince has been given Dragonstone before ascending to the Throne...

ETA: Here's wiki entry of all Princes of Dragonstone

[Lord Bronn Stokeworth]

Robert didn't have to give Stannis shit, thus him giving anything was a reward. Simply, Robert wanted to reward both his brothers and it makes both better political and strategic sense to give Stannis Dragonstone while Renly gets Storm's End.

Officially no. Politically, it would draw questions of why he screwed his loyal brother out of everything. But this is entirely besides my point.

Please explain how Robert is following Targ traditions by giving it to Stannis and not giving it to Joffery. You keep saying that Robert gave Stannis Dragonstone because he was his heir. But why didn't he give it to Joffery when Joffery was heir if he was following the Targ traditions? Dragonstone is not a for life deal. So, it would make sense if he took it from Stannis and gave it to Joffery. But there was no indication that he ever planned to.

Anyone other "Robert gave it to him because he was his heir" people, feel free to enlighten me. I just don't see how he his following a tradition that he doesn't actually follow (ie giving it to Joffery).

[grand old duke of stark]

Even if Dragonstone was for heir apparents, I'll bet Robert knew Stannis would resent the gift. Siblings who don't get along always know exactly which buttons to press.

[Lord of Dragonstone]

Again, Heirs Apparent were given Dragonstone... Robert was a King, and Stannis was Heir Apparant until Joffrey was born... I think this ois overcomplication of extremely simple situation...

Actually it does. As I recall, each Targaryen Prince has been given Dragonstone before ascending to the Throne...

ETA: Here's wiki entry of all Princes of Dragonstone

Each prince of Dragonstone was also a son of the king, not brother. It was fairly obvious at the time that Stannis was not expected to inherit the IT.

Although looking at that link, it seems that Jaeherys did not inherit Aenys I despite being Prince of Dragonstone.

i.e., a precedent of a brother of the king inheriting without being Prince of Dragonstone

[Minsc]

Officially no. Politically, it would draw questions of why he screwed his loyal brother out of everything. But this is entirely besides my point.

Please explain how Robert is following Targ traditions by giving it to Stannis and not giving it to Joffery. You keep saying that Robert gave Stannis Dragonstone because he was his heir. But why didn't he give it to Joffery when Joffery was heir if he was following the Targ traditions? Dragonstone is not a for life deal. So, it would make sense if he took it from Stannis and gave it to Joffery. But there was no indication that he ever planned to.

Anyone other "Robert gave it to him because he was his heir" people, feel free to enlighten me. I just don't see how he his following a tradition that he doesn't actually follow (ie giving it to Joffery).

Probably, because he didn't want to take it away from Stannis. It seems to be a general for life status thing until the holder of Dragonstone passes onto their heir, as how typically the holder becomes King and thus are busy ruling the entire Seven Kingdoms thus no longer needing it or are to busy to properly rule it.

[Lord Bronn Stokeworth]

Probably, because he didn't want to take it away from Stannis. It seems to be a general for life status thing until the holder of Dragonstone passes onto their heir, as how typically the holder becomes King and thus are busy ruling the entire Seven Kingdoms thus no longer needing it or are to busy to properly rule it.

Then why give it to Stannis in the first place? If he was following Targ tradition, shouldn't he have just sent Stannis there to hold down the fort until his real heir was born. It's not a stretch to say that Robert was planning on having trueborn children.

Because the scenario you say makes no sense. If he wasn't willing to take it away, why give it in the first place? The list Mladen provided shows that every Prince of Dragonstone was the intended heir of the Throne. Stannis may have been Robert's heir, but he was never his intended heir.

[Minsc]

Then why give it to Stannis in the first place? If he was following Targ tradition, shouldn't he have just sent Stannis there to hold down the fort until his real heir was born. It's not a stretch to say that Robert was planning on having trueborn children.

Because the scenario you say makes no sense. If he wasn't willing to take it away, why give it in the first place? The list Mladen provided shows that every Prince of Dragonstone was the intended heir of the Throne. Stannis may have been Robert's heir, but he was never his intended heir.

Because, he wanted to reward both of his brothers and he has only two available prized territories to give them. And giving Stannis Dragonstone is both better political and strategic sense.

If he just wanted to be a dick, he could have equally told Stannis to go blow some dicks and not have given him anything. Or he could have taken DS away from after Joffrey's birth.

[Draco_Dracul]

Why on earth did he pass over Stannis and give the Stormlands to his kid brother Renly?

A mix of spite and stupidity, the spite being why he passed over Stannis (mainly for his failure to capture Viserys and Dany) stupidity being why he didn't just fold the Storm Lands into the Crownlands.

On the other hand by right the Stormlands were still Roberts and his to do with as he pleased.

[Drexyon7]

So for the "he didn't honor Targ tradition or he would've given Dragonstone to Joff" crowd...would you give Joff Dragonstone?

Didn't think so...