Did Brienne unintentionally sacrifice to the Old Gods/Weirwood

[Dornish Whine]

Did Brienne unintentionally make a sacrifice to the old gods when she buried Nimble Dick under the Weirwood at the whispers? Did the tree also drink the blood of the bloody mummers? What implications could this have to her and Jaime's fate?

[The Great and Mighty Poo]

Probably no impact to their fate. But very interesting though. I'd like for something to come out of this.

[Jaime4Brienne]

Wow...I was amazed by this idea...I wonder if it will effect the outcome....kudos Dornish Whine.

[Dornish Whine]

Wow...I was amazed by this idea...I wonder if it will effect the outcome....kudos Dornish Whine.

Thanks! Just one of those details that stuck out on (another) re-read. Perhaps this will become an instance of death paying for life.

[Castellan]

HHmm very interesting. Where is the information that blood sacrifice was practised in weirwood groves? One of the many things I missed skipping through chapters, I suppose.

[aaron711]

When Bran has his visions of the past, he sees Starks making blood sacrafices

HHmm very interesting. Where is the information that blood sacrifice was practised in weirwood groves? One of the many things I missed skipping through chapters, I suppose.

When Bran has his visions after eating the weirwood paste he sees Starks make blood sacrafices.

[Dornish Whine]

HHmm very interesting. Where is the information that blood sacrifice was practised in weirwood groves? One of the many things I missed skipping through chapters, I suppose.

I think it is mentioned a couple times. Once, at least, came from Bran's visions when he first connected to the Weirnet in the cave;

Then, as he watched, a bearded man forced a captive down onto his knees before the heart tree. A white-haired woman stepped toward them through a drift of dark red leaved, a bronze sickle in her hand.

"No," said Bran, "no, don't," but they could not hear him, no more than his father had. The woman grabbed the captive by the hair, hooked the sickle around his throat, and slashed. And through the mist of centuries the broken boy could only watch as the man's feet drummed against the earth...but as his life flowed out of him in a red tide, Brandon Stark could taste the blood.

ETA:

Also there is some mention of it in a TWOW Gift Chapter;

Give him to Lord Eddard's gods. The old gods of the north. Give him to the tree

[uptowngbv]

HHmm very interesting. Where is the information that blood sacrifice was practised in weirwood groves? One of the many things I missed skipping through chapters, I suppose.

Bran's vision through the weirwood in ADWD.

[Castellan]

Thanks

[serkneeler]

The jailor in the wolfs den mentions it to Davos as well when he is imprisoned there at white harbor.

[Castellan]

Actually I think it is mentioned in one of TWOW preview chapters too.

[Jon of the Dead]

The jailor in the wolfs den mentions it to Davos as well when he is imprisoned there at white harbor.

Yep:

“Then a long cruel winter fell,” said Ser Bartimus. “The White Knife froze hard, and even the firth was icing up. The winds came howling from the north and drove them slavers inside to huddle round their fires, and whilst they warmed themselves the new king come down on them. Brandon Stark this was, Edrick Snowbeard’s great-grandson, him that men called Ice Eyes. He took the Wolf’s Den back, stripped the slavers naked, and gave them to the slaves he’d found chained up in the dungeons. It’s said they hung their entrails in the branches of the heart tree, as an offering to the gods. The old gods, not these new ones from the south. Your Seven don’t know winter, and winter don’t know them.”

Davos could not argue with the truth of that. From what he had seen at Eastwatch-by-the-Sea, he did not care to know winter either. “What gods do you keep?” he asked the one-legged knight.

“The old ones.” When Ser Bartimus grinned, he looked just like a skull. “Me and mine were here before the Manderlys. Like as not, my own forebears strung those entrails through the tree.”

“I never knew that northmen made blood sacrifice to their heart trees.”

“There’s much and more you southrons do not know about the north,” Ser Bartimus replied

[Little Red Riding Hood]

Very Interesting idea,Dornish Whine... And something new :bowdown: ...!

This chapter of Brienne is one of the best finished in AFFC. I love the paragraph in the end:

““About the girl, I meant. The Lady Sansa.”

Brienne thought a moment. “She was making for Riverrun, if Timeon told it true. Somewhere along the way she was taken by the Hound. If I find him...”

“... he’ll kill you.”

“Or I’ll kill him,” she said stubbornly. “Will you help me cover up poor Crabb, ser?”

“No true knight could refuse such beauty.” Ser Hyle climbed down from the wall. Together, they shoved the dirt on top of Nimble Dick as the moon rose higher in the sky, and down below the ground the heads of forgotten kings whispered secrets.”

Also, I remember about Roman mythology, the custom of giving two coins of gold to the dead (in the books, Brienne gives two dragons, and I don´t think this is accidental ) as payment to Charon for cross the river of the Hell. I think GRRM plays before with this idea, and here he is doing the same thing again.

[Fire Eater]

HHmm very interesting. Where is the information that blood sacrifice was practised in weirwood groves? One of the many things I missed skipping through chapters, I suppose.

From WoIAF:

Yet the First Men were less learned than we are now, and credited things that their descendants today do not believe; consider Maester Yorrick's Wed to the Sea, Being an Account of the History of White Harbor from the Earliest Days, which recounts the practice of blood sacrifice to the old gods. Such sacrifices persisted as recently as five centuries ago, according to accounts from Maester Yorrick's predecessors at White Harbor.

[Dornish Whine]

Very Interesting idea,Dornish Whine... And something new :bowdown: ...!

This is perhaps the highest praise possible on these boards. Thanks! :thumbsup:

[Little Red Riding Hood]

You are welcome, :D your thread is a breath of fresh air.

[Winter's Knight]

So what does it mean? Does Brienne get special protection or a wish?

(I need to brush up on Weirwood Sacrifices 101)

[VaramyrSixchins]

I dunno, does a burial count as such? Tytos Blackwood mentions to Jamie that he asked for son's bones to be returned to him so that he may bury them under the tree, so there is apparently a precedent for burial under a heart tree. Then again, the Blackwood tree is petrified, so who knows?

It's an interesting question, but I don't think we know enough about it to determine if a heart tree sacrifice requires intent, or if a simple burial suffices.

[Dornish Whine]

So what does it mean? Does Brienne get special protection or a wish?

(I need to brush up on Weirwood Sacrifices 101)

I do not know, of course, which is why I posed the question. My current thinking is (if this is significant at all) - Brienne took 3 lives under the weirwood and a 4th was taken when Shags killed Nimble Dick. So 4 lives have been paid to the old gods, whether intentionally or not.

When 3 lives were saved by Arya, Jaqen paid for them with 3 deaths. When 4 lives are paid to the weirwood, perhaps they will save 4 lives in the future... 3 of those lives may have already been saved - Brienne, Pod, and Hyle. The fourth life might be Jaime's. Though I don't know how the old gods may have influenced the hanging scene where Brienne apparently yells "Sword". This is only a fledgling notion after all ;)

ETA:

I dunno, does a burial count as such? Tytos Blackwood mentions to Jamie that he asked for son's bones to be returned to him so that he may bury them under the tree, so there is apparently a precedent for burial under a heart tree. Then again, the Blackwood tree is petrified, so who knows?

It's an interesting question, but I don't think we know enough about it to determine if a heart tree sacrifice requires intent, or if a simple burial suffices.

Burying bones is not quite the same. In the case of the Whispers the roots of the tree would have drank in the blood of the 4 people slain.

(Oh and your username is awesome :D )

[Dornish Whine]

Apologies for double post/bump, but another thought occurred to me when thinking about what Asha says to Stannis in the TWOW gift chapter. Here is a more complete quote;

TWOW spoiler

The chill in Asha's voice made Theon shiver in his chains. "Take him out across the lake to the islet where the weirwood grows, and strike his head off with that sorcerous sword you bear. That is how Eddard Stark would have done it. Theon slew Lord Eddard's sons. Give him to Lord Eddard's gods. The old gods of the north. Give him to the tree." And suddenly there came a wild thumping, as the maester's ravens hopped and flapped inside their cages, their black feathers flying as they beat against the bars with loud and raucous caws. "The tree," one squawked, "the tree, the tree," whilst the second screamed only, "Theon, Theon, Theon."
Theon Greyjoy smiled. They know my name, he thought

From ASOS when Brienne recieves Oathkeeper;

... He gave Ser Ilyn a new sword, and had Ice melted down and reforged. There was enough metal for two new blades. You're holding one. So you'll be defending Ned Stark's daughter with Ned Stark's own steel, if that makes any difference to you.

To recap;

Give him to the tree...That is how Eddard Stark would have done it. ... Give him to Lord Eddard's gods. The old gods of the north. ... Ned Stark's own steel.

Does it make any difference? I think it just might.

A bit up thread I suggested that the blood of the 4 men who died under the weirwood at the Whisper could be paying for 4 lives - in an inverse to the Arya/Jaqen scenario where lives were saved and had to be paid for. These 4 lives would be Brienne, Pod, Hyle, and Jaime.

"The tree," one squawked.

The last place we saw Jaime/Brienne was at Pennytree, very near to the Bloodraven's home of Raventree, and in the shadows of Missy's Teats - a pair of hills that are (re)named after BR's mother's ... features. This location still falls under House Blackwood's rule after Jaime's negotiations - the Blackwood sigil is a weirwood full of ravens. This area is possibly under the watchful eye of BR, being his childhood home.

And suddenly there came a wild thumping, as the maester's ravens hopped and flapped...

If there is one image of raven/crows that we see repeatedly, especially in the Riverlands, its is of them feasting on corpses, plucking dead eyes, tearing strips of flesh. Don't hate, that's just how they roll. Now if only I could find a corpse that features heavily in Brienne's story, that has persisted long past its time, that the Blackwood ravens could peck to bits... any suggestions ;)

eta:spoiler tags