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About Greymoon

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  1. Greymoon added a post in a topic Good matches for the Stark children *Spoilers Game of Thrones*   

    these "some ways" are not political, while all the arguments you've raised against the match were political, and the same basically, that I'd already mentioned in the first post. let's leave it at that though, I've no wish to quarrel because of a misunderstanding, and I understand a dismissal for what it is - that's sort of insulting by the way too, when I take pains to try and explain my intention to you.
  2. Greymoon added a post in a topic Good matches for the Stark children *Spoilers Game of Thrones*   

    I wrote in the very first post that from Ned's perspective, it wouldn't be a great match - meaning, politically speaking, it's not a good match. I don't know how to explain it otherwise. There is no disagreement.
  3. Greymoon added a post in a topic Good matches for the Stark children *Spoilers Game of Thrones*   

    you should probably re-read my post, we are not in disagreement...
    me: "It merits a mention even though it isn't a good match"
    you: "it is a good match?"
    me: "no, it isn't, I'm just mentioning it because it's mentioned in the books, and because in book context, it's a surprisingly good one, not to mention that it's a match the old Sansa might have agreed with."
  4. Greymoon added a post in a topic Good matches for the Stark children *Spoilers Game of Thrones*   

    Yes. That's why it's a good, yet a bad match. Ned would never entertain the thought of Robert Arryn's death. Still; it merits a mention, because it's a surprisingly good match for Alayne Stone, and a bit ironic, considering that the old Sansa might have been glad for it, while the new Sansa dreads it. Besides for having fathered a bastard, Harry fits the old Sansa's ideals, he's a knight of songs. 
  5. Greymoon added a post in a topic Good matches for the Stark children *Spoilers Game of Thrones*   

    Robb Stark - Wynafryd Manderly. The eldest daughter, discreeter, and more level headed than her sister. If Robb + Wynafryd, Wylla would become heir instead,  or, White Harbor and Winterfell would "merge". It's a good northern match, the Manderlys being rather rich.
    Robb Stark - Margaery Tyrell. Margaery is a perfect southron lady, and shows adaptability, quick wit, and has a good head on her shoulder. She's received the proper education to run a keep and can navigate troubled waters with ease. She did well in KL, and would have done well in the north, too.
    Jon Snow - Meera Reed. Howland Reed might accept the match without finding insult in it, and Meera is heir of Greywater Watch. Jon would take her name.
    Jon Snow - Wylla Manderly. She's a second daughter, she might be allowed to marry more "freely" than her sister. Jon is the Ned's only bastard son, he grew up in Winterfell, it's clear Ned Stark holds him in high regard - not a great match for a lord's daughter, but not terrible either. A keep would be given them to make the deal more attractive to Manderly.
    Jon Snow - a younger Mormont (Jorelle?). Because the Mormonts seems all around cool and laid back regarding marriages. We never hear of a Lord Mormont, Dacey was "an old maid". Maege's daughters were fathered by a bear. The father of Alysanne's children is equally a mystery.
    => on the why of these matches for Robb and Jon: Jon despises southerners and looks down on them, that much transpires from his POV at the wall. He admires independent, strong headed women (Ygritte, Alys, Val, Arya). He's also a "bastard," so he can't expect to make a great match - while at the same time, he's Ned's bastard, and well loved by his father, so it's not unfeasible that he could have married "above" his station. 
    Robb doesn't seem to have the same prejudice against southerners, and (that's how I see him anyway), has a more classical view of gender roles, due not only to his mother's influence but also, Theon Greyjoy's. You can't get more "classical" than Jeyne Westerling, a pretty, sweet, shy and naive girl.
    Sansa Stark - Domeric Bolton, in a hypothetical scenario where many didn't die. According to his aunt, Domeric was gentle, not at all like his father. He was also a knight, and loved to play the harp. A Stark/Bolton match might have eased the enmity between both houses.
    Sansa Stark - Harold Hardying. Harry the Heir is actually a pretty good match. He's handsome, boyish, a knight. The old Sansa Stark might have loved him. Politically speaking, he's heir of the the same time though, Robert Arryn stands in his way. From Ned's POV, Harry/Sansa would not be the best match.
    Sansa Stark (or Arya) - Edric Dayne. House Dayne is a minor, yet strangely important, house. Edric seems like a nice, serious boy, he's lord of Starfall. Whoever marries him would become the lady of the Keep. That role would probably fit Sansa better. Still, the match would be a good match for Arya as well. Any place that allows Arya some freedom would be good.
    Arya Stark - Trystane Martell. As a second son and third in line for his father's seat, Trystane, like Oberyn Martell, is quite free to do as he pleases. Arya would have flourished in dorne. Together, they could have traveled anywhere they wanted. It's a good match, since Dorne has been isolated for too long after Robert's Rebellion.
    Arya Stark - Mormont sisterhood
    Bran Stark - Lyanna Mormont. With a castle of their own.
    Rickon Stark - the daughter of a Flint, a Norrey, a Liddle, or a Skagosi.
  6. Greymoon added a post in a topic Further proof that Dany will arrive at the wall   

    "That night she dreamt that she was Rhaegar, riding to the Trident. But she was mounted on a dragon, not a horse. When she saw the Usurper's rebel host across the river they were armored all in ice, but she bathed them in dragonfire and they melted away like dew and turned the Trident into a torrent. Some small part of her knew that she was dreaming, but another part exulted. This is how it was meant to be. The other was a nightmare, and I have only now awakened."
    Dany believes she sees the usurper's army, on the trident, and the usurper's army is armored in ice. The Usurper is dead, though. His legacy, in Dany's eyes, would be carried out by anyone who refused to bend the knee to her, and most certainly by anyone of Baratheon or Stark stock.
    Jon has a dream where he is armored in black ice. All hints point toward the north taking a more active role in the future again, toward a new leader rising to glue the north back together. Jojen tells Bran that the wolves will come again; whether or not you believe in the northern conspiracy, it's quite clear that the Bolton/Frey rule is meeting resistance. The same is true for the riverlands, and even in KL, the Lannisters have lost power due to the conflict with house Tyrell. The "Lannister Peace" in the 7k is about to shatter.
    Dany won't land in westeros anytime soon, the end of Dance makes that prospect unlikely. Meanwhile, Aegon is already there, Stannis is already there... the war keeps on going, no one in westeros is waiting for Dany and that's the truth she'll face. Alliances will be made without her, battles will be won without her, a new king will be chosen and celebrated, without her. No one will have any reason to bend the knee to her.
    so, imo, Dany will use her dragon fire against human foes, and these human foes will come from the north, be "clad in ice" > drunk on vengeance, destruction, harsh, desperate and deadly - words, I expect, that will describe Jon's mind-set post Ides or Marsh. The boy is dead.
  7. Greymoon added a post in a topic Jaime the Kingmaker   

    I wasn't suggesting both of them...Only Loras, who seems the stronger candidate for Kingmaker.
    When Tommen dies, or if the Tyrell and Lannister alliance ends (Margaery's trial probably provides a legitimate ground for divorce), then I doubt the Tyrells will have much choice in matters of allies. If Tommen dies, Margaery will be considered as "cursed"....and if the Tyrells back out of the alliance or Margaery's innocence is questioned, the entire house will be disgraced.
    only a starving man would ask a beggar for food...only the most desperate would ally with House Tyrell after that....and the most desperate could well be what remains of House Stark. Others might use the Tyrells, take advantage of their poor standing, while a Stark might sympathize - and the north might be starved enough that allying with former Lannister loyalists becomes alright...
    Sansa liked Margaery and Sansa would understand Margaery's plight, having gone through similar experiences (being offered up for marriage)...she is also learning to play the game... Loras's own sigil is three roses (=> three headed dragon)...roses,  winters roses, are associated to Lyanna Stark and by association, to Jon... leaving us with a possible, future Jon/Margaery match... 
    So that's why I suggested Loras instead of Jaime for Kingmaker. That and the fact that Loras is the other protagonist of that little scene were Jaime reflects on Criston Cole... While Jaime thinks that he and Loras are the same and that Loras is merely a mirror image of Jaime's younger self, they are also, quite different. In fact, the only things they have in common is arrogance, good looks and talent.
    Loras has experienced the loss of his first love early on, his relationship to his sister is healthy, his family, while ambitious is none the less, a loving family..he is a third son, not a first born son, never was heir to anything, never did disappoint his father... Young Jaime and Loras may appear like mirror images of each other, but they are not.
    This difference is what will make Loras the Kingmaker instead of the Kingslayer.
  8. Greymoon added a post in a topic Lyanna and the 3 KG   

    The theory assumes that Lyanna died because of childbirth complication days after giving birth.  Lyanna probably did receive all the help the KG could offer her...I wouldn't be surprised if they did look for a midwife and found Wylla instead. Wylla would have had some experience in delivering a child/children, since she's supposedly a wetnurse.
  9. Greymoon added a post in a topic Why are Jon and Robb so similar?   

    And how can you not see that it's the same for Arya, Dany, Tyrion, Sansa, Bran etc.? That's not having "plot armor", it's simply there being a plot, that GRRM writes. If no character had "plot armor" there would be no story. Jon doesn't have more plot armor than other characters in the books. He certainly doesn't have as much "plot armor" as Dany and Tyrion do...

    ...Bran should certainly be dead with that fall, but he survived and gained magical powers in exchange, then some weird green-seeing kid and his spear-wielding sister came to him to guide him and bring him to the far north where he got a mentor... If Jon's only hinted at potential ressurection is plot armor, what do you call what happened to Bran?

    I'm writing potential, because "you think he's dead, do you?" I for one, do not. Not dead = no resurrection. It's as simple as that. How many characters were thought "dead" for a time but weren't, really? Asha, Arya, Davos...
  10. Greymoon added a post in a topic Jaime the Kingmaker   

    Because Aegon will declare himself King with or without Jaime's help....

    Here's how Jaime could become Kingmaker for Jon:

    1) Stannis has to die
    2) Jon needs to become a leading figure in the north and rally northerners behind Aegon.
    3) Aegon needs to recognize Jon officially as his half-brother
    4) Aegon needs to become popular and gain the support of the Riverlands and Vale.
    5) Dany needs to land and take Kingslanding before Aegon has time to march on the capital
    6) Dany must execute or be responsible directly or indirectly (collateral damage) for Cersei's and Tommen's death
    7) Aegon must die at Dany's hand, provoking the general outcry of the mass

    Jaime, if he survived all that, is then in a position where he can play "Kingmaker" and declare for the last surviving son of Rhaegar....

    But all that aside, imo, the more likely Kingmaker candidate is not Jaime but Loras Tyrell. iirc, in that chapter where Jaime reflects on the Kingmaker, it's Loras Tyrell that stands before the rose symbolism in Jon's story line and the fact that the Tyrells and Lannisters are already at odds...

    Also, the Tyrells might look for another husband for Margaery. JonCon will certainly not allow such a match and Aegon would do well to refuse, the girl is cursed, thrice married, twice widowed.... the Tyrells cannot have the King, but they could, maybe, have the half-brother of uncertain birth...and to a former bastard and starving northerners, the weakened, humbled House Tyrell might be a blessing.
  11. Greymoon added a post in a topic Why are Jon and Robb so similar?   

    People keep saying that about Jon and I honestly don't see it. Every character has so called "plot armor".

    Tyrion is a superhero who somehow survives two trials by combat and being thrown in the midst of battle even though his smaller than most soldiers in westeros. He never has difficult choices to make. He gets a beautiful, high born wife. He's saved out of Kingslanding because Jaime cared. Then he spends his time getting drunk and still manages to survive. He could have been dumped on the streets, he wouldn't have cared but instead of being dumped on the streets he becomes a guest to a rich merchant and drinks some more. Tyrion did not work at his own survival. Other people did that for him...(Jaime, Varys, Illyrio, JonCon)... he gets sold in a slave auction and lands outside the gates of Meereen, the very place he wanted to reach...he doesn't get greyscale. Doesn't get the bloody flux. And still, some readers want him to ride a dragon... talk about plot armor.

    Dany walked into a pyre and survived, then she got three dragons and conquered slavers bay. She survived the red waste, even though she'd had a miscarriage shortly before that. She sends out riders with no idea where she is and finds Qarth. She becomes a guest of honor in Qarth and remains a guest even when she refuses to marry her host. And she survives again the house of the undying where she got to hear prophecies and see glimpses of the future and past. And before that, she was a scared little girl who could have died, be captured, or raped a hundred times from the moment Drogo showed weakness.

    Arya was thrown from one situation to the other, always finding a sort protector or road companion, always surviving through all hardships thrown at her. Sansa did too. Robb had a spectacular rise to power, from 15 year old heir to King in the north. His lack of experience did not stop him from winning battles against the Lannisters! Jaime is an experienced knight, and Tywin Lannister an experienced master mind. Yet Robb Stark defeated them on the field? His strategic genius could be considered plot armor, too.

    All characters have "plot armor". It's not so much "plot armor" as simply, "plot" though. Talking about plot armor when speaking about Jon, is, imo, too much, too soon. Some see his "resurrection" as plot armor.... only, well... That hasn't happened yet! and may never happen in the way most of us imagine.
  12. Greymoon added a post in a topic What should be Jon's new Targaryen name?   

    It's Aemon.

    Aemon because he was meant to be brother to the future King, Aegon VI.
    Aemon the Dragonknight was brother to Aegon IV. Maester Aemon was brother to Aegon V. Aemon, son of Jaehaerys and Alysanne, was also the King's second son, brother to Aegon. And....

    Aemon after Aemon the Dragonknight > Lyanna's choice. We know Lyanna was a wild wolf, like Arya, and she liked swords, like Arya. But what if she was a little bit like Sansa, too? What if she was a dreamer and a romantic, with a very defined sense of honor? we do know from the little we have about her, that Lyanna did considered honor to be important. She defended Howland Reed, she questioned Robert's own... She would have loved Aemon the Dragonknight and the story of his forbidden love towards his sister, Naerys.
    Aemon after Maester Aemon > Rhaegar's choice. We know that they wrote each other. Rhaegar had only few people to look up to, and his father was not one of them. To him, Maester Aemon was probably a wealth of knowledge and of stories about the past Targaryens. Plus, was there a single Aemon in the history of his family, that turned out bad? No Aemon ever ruled, no Aemon ever did unmentionable things. Aemon is a good, clean, name for a Targaryen prince.
    Aemon like Aemon Steelsong, the wildling prince > GRRM's clue dropping. Like Aemon Steelsong, Jon Snow was born around the defeat of a red and black clad musician (Mance, the lute player; Rhaegar, the harp player), a defeat delt by a Baratheon (Stannis; Robert). Like Aemon Steelsong's mother, Jon's mother died in childbirth. Like Aemon Steelsong, Jon was raised as a bastard, to keep safe from a Baratheon King (Sam's, Ned's; Stannis, Robert) and like Aemon, Jon was named after a father figure/role model of his adoptive father (Aemon Targaryen, Jon Arryn).
  13. Greymoon added a post in a topic Jon and Mance swap Bodies? Jon goes to winterfell and Mance dies?   

    There's theories that he was drugged/poisoned or drunk. He has two meetings before the shield hall, one with Bowen Marsh and co. where he sends Satin out to fetch some cups for all of them and they have mulled wine together (though Bowen doesn't drink, iirc), and another meeting that lasts two hours and that we are not privy to, with Tormund Giantsbabe, Mead-King of Ruddy Hall.

    ....and we've seen Jon drunk twice before. Once at the feast in Winterfell, once after his meeting with Tycho Nestori from the Iron Bank.
  14. Greymoon added a post in a topic Littlefinger orchestrated Brandon Starks death   

    If Littelfinger had a part in it, it's more probable imo, that he didn't expect the result of his manipulations, didn't measure the consequences of his acts...and only understood later, how much power his words had had over the events that followed.

    Say, Littelfinger heard "Prince Rhagear took Lyanna away from the King's men" (see the rescue theory), but didn't explain the whole thing, and even exagerated the events (or insulted Lyanna), in order to anger Brandon - because Brandon had just defeated him and Petyr felt humiliated.

    Now, little Petyr didn't lie, but twisted the truth, with no idea what the consequences of his words would be... and when he heard that Brandon got arrested, revenge tasted sweet... little Petyr understood in that moment that a few well chosen words, words spoken in anger to a rival, were enough to start a war, to plunge the realm into chaos...

    And a vocation was born.
  15. Greymoon added a post in a topic From Death to Dawn: Jon Will Rise and The Sword of the Morning   

    The Sword of the Morning is a title given to a knight of House Dayne...but imo, it wasn't always the case.

    In the distant past, this Sword of the Morning was (probably) to House Dayne, what the Last Hero is to House Stark: one mythical/historical figure, that is, in a linguistic/thematic sense connected to the Long Night/The Battle for Dawn...

    This mythical/historical figure wielded a sword - whether that sword was the actual Dawn or not is irrelevant, whether Dawn is the original lightbringer, is too, imo...the more interesting question is: can one be the Sword of the Morning without wielding Dawn? I think, yes.

    The hints in the text that Jon will be the next “Sword of the Morning” are numerous, I won't deny that.

    But, like stated above, I think the Sword of the Morning is first and foremost a historical figure – not a title. And like others, I doubt Dawn will make a grand appearance. Jon already has a fancy sword, after all...

    Further, if you think about it, the “Sword of the Morning” is Dawn, metaphorically speaking...What is the dawn, if not the early morning? in a way, the Sword of the Morning = the Sword of Dawn = Dawn, the blade... GRRM is fond of metaphors. A sword is a warrior, a dragon is a Targaryen....

    More important than the literal sword itself, are imo Dawn's “supposed”, mythical qualities. Dawn was made from a fallen star...

    So, if we accept that the sword Dawn stands as a metaphor for the human warrior, then Dawn's qualities can be transposed to its human equivalent...And we have a prophetic warrior that is heralded by a bleeding star: the Prince that was Promised.

    And because the sword is the man and the man is the sword, Jon is the sword forged from a bleeding star. His Night's Watch vows do say "I am the sword in the darkness"...

    And he is also lightbringer, the bringer of dawn. Thematically speaking, I doubt anyone could deny that the Sword of the Morning, the warrior who wields dawn, is not related to lightbringer....especially when we turn to the Night's Watch vows again: "I am the light that brings the dawn"....and like Lightbringer, Jon was tested and broke and needs to be reforged, with the heart of Nissa Nissa.

    If the Sword of the Morning = Lightbringer = Jon, then Nissa Nissa = the bleeding Star.

    I won't expand on the theory here because Yolkboy developed it in length in another thread, but basically Red (bleeding) Star = Melisandre. Reforging the Sword becomes a metaphor for Jon's "rebirth".

    In this context Azor Ahai is the invisible hand of fate... or R'hllor if you follow the red faith... and Melisandre is his wife.

    [Or, Melisandre was not completely in the wrong and Stannis is indeed Azor Ahai - as in, his actions/circumstances precipitated Jon's "breaking".Stannis's presence at the wall made things complicated; Stannis supposed death factored in Jon's rash decision to ride to Winterfell]