Greymoon

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  1. What role will House Dayne play?

    The Daynes, with Darkstar in the lead, will destabilize Dorne by leading the pro-Dany and anti-Martell faction of the war. Dorne is notorious for being difficult to rule, the lords easily bicker among themselves and Doran has made himself appear weak. Even Arianna started doubting him. Darkstar is to be brought to justice..but will the Daynes stay put while one of their own is threatened? What about the Yronwoods? Chances are that the death of Quentyn and Cletus will ruin the relationship between House Martell and House Yronwood. Archibald might not ever return from the mission, either. Doran getting involved in the greater war might well be viewed as the perfect opportunity for many dornish to declare their own discontent with Sunspear.
  2. What was Rhaegar Targaryen thinking?

    The thing with the crown is somewhat covered in this theory.  Basically, Lyanna was the KotLT, Aerys was paranoid about the identity of the KotLT, so she couldn't reveal herself...but Rhaegar did in fact know who the knight of the laughing tree was and crowned Lyanna because he admired her courage and high moral standards. The theory implies that Rhaegar did not set out to humiliate Elia, or to cheat on her. Rather it looks at R+L as the result of circumstances.
  3. What was Rhaegar Targaryen thinking?

    I addressed that issue earlier, I believe. I'd add also that in spite of the surprising frequency of ravens arriving at destination, we are talking about a fictional realm that has no modern, reliable, postal service.
  4. What was Rhaegar Targaryen thinking?

    It was really not done to run away from an arrange marriage. If you wish to understand GRRM's point to be mostly about the status of the husband, fine. But I beg to differ, it is not "safe to say that Lyanna was mad in love with Rhaegar" or "Rhaegar is very focused in prophecy". The bit about the prophecy comes to us through Maester Aemon and Dany's vision in the HotU. Maester Aemon does not say that Rhaegar was obsessed with the prophecy. He says that Rhaegar believed in it. There is a difference. He also says that Rhaegar believed Aegon to be the PtwP. Sure, Rhaegar read something when he was a boy, that made him turn toward swords. But where does it ever say that the boy and the man must believe in the same things? The vision of the HotU shows us a plausible interaction that Rhaegar had with Elia. I say plausible, because we are talking about the HotU. The visions are not 100% accurate. Some are right out false, others are metaphors and open to interpretation. Why should this one be 100% true? Anyway. In the vision, Rhaegar confirms that Aegon is the PtwP and says "there must be one more". He does not say "with Lyanna Stark" or "Lyanna is the girl that will help fulfill the prophecy". In fact, this line of thinking is entirely made up by fans. We do not know what motivated Rhaegar to pay attention to Lyanna in the first place - it's all based upon speculation. We can't even be a 100% certain that Rhaegar wanted three children and that's it. Kevan Lannister speaks of "sons". When we look at the war of the 5K we have a multitude of players with multiple interests and a multitude of events finally culminating in open war. GRRM has shown us how complex war can be, how complex the motivations of people can be. Why should Robert's rebellion have started in a different manner? Why reduce Rhaegar to a man with a single intend? and a foolish one atop of that?
  5. What was Rhaegar Targaryen thinking?

    1) read the rescue theory. There is evidence, hinted at by Martin himself, that all is not as it seems. There's a SSM stating that eloping or running away from an arranged marriage was absolutely not done in the middle ages. Why is it so easy for some people to accept that Rhaegar was a fool, when, by all means, no one besides Robert thinks badly of him? Not even Ned. Why do people easily state that he was obsessed with the prophecy and acted to fulfill it, when there is evidence he believed Aegon to be the PtwP and little evidence that he changed his mind or thought he must have a child with Lyanna?  Why accept that he was so politically inapt that he believed it a great idea to hide away in a remote tower with an underage girl, without ever anticipating any consequences, at a time when Aerys's rule was becoming increasingly erratic? We have evidence he meant to act against his father (through Jaime, through Yandel). So why do people insist on putting all of this aside, in favor of casting Rhaegar as a lovesick, prophecy obsessed, fool?  2) how many Kingsguard have squires? Jaime is the only one that comes to mind. And why haven't we heard of these two? If one of these if Gerold Dayne, ok, why not. Already introduced. But I don't see why we should go with two characters we can only assume existed, when there are other characters linked to Rhaegar in the books, that can have been involved.
  6. What was Rhaegar Targaryen thinking?

    it's written in the app because that's the information we have been given in the books. What we don't know is not yet in the app, else the app would be spoilery. It's not. So most information in the app is information already found in the books. Nothing new. We however do know that Rhaegar left with more than two companions. Lewyn is a suggestion, to me, he seems a strong possibility for the reasons I mentioned above, and because he does not require us to invent another character who could possibly be loyal to Rhaegar in a political move against Aerys.
  7. What was Rhaegar Targaryen thinking?

    Two unknown characters. Like I said, we can make them up or we can look at characters we already know.
  8. What was Rhaegar Targaryen thinking?

    We are talking about the greatest tourney seen in along time, the event of the century. All of the realms who's who is meant to attend. Boycotting such an event is not only ostracizing yourself from the rest of the realm, its making a political statement, especially if Rhaegar was involved in the planning of the tourney. Sure, all of the Stark children were there. It's still an insult not to come personally, though.  
  9. What was Rhaegar Targaryen thinking?

    his plan was not to alienate them by giving Lyanna the crown. In this theory, crowning Lyanna and later, rescuing her are two somewhat independent actions. The first was his way of acknowledging the true champion of the tourney, and serves to recognize Lyanna's valor (as the KotLT); while the second is forced ahead because Aerys meddles. Keeping Lyanna (while having rescued her! and this can't be stated enough, because Lord Stark being in his depth is what Rhaegar would have counted on) would have pressured the Starks to chose a side, his side, because he saved her. Rhaegar's error is not anticipating that Rickard Stark would be murdered and that lords would rebel on their own terms - before he, Rhaegar, could reach his allies. There's plenty of reasons why bringing her to Winterfell was not an option.  Winterfell is quite far to travel to. When the realm is about to implode, it would seem a bad idea for the heir of said realm to travel north on a months long trip. The capital is south, and Rhaegar's potential allies, too, were all in the south. If Rhaegar planned a coup against his father and Lyanna's arrest was the opportunity to put this plan into motions, he was acting under time restraint. If the Martells were to be his allies in this coup, then it makes sense he would seek them out as quickly as possible - hence, the trip to dorne. It's not that foolish if he communicated his intention to Lord Stark - a possibility that is not yet refuted by the text, although many readers assume that Rhaegar failed to do that. The thing is that we don't know, because in all likelihood, if Rhaegar communicated his plans to anyone it would have been to Lord Stark himself, not to Brandon, Ned or Jon Arryn. Rickard Stark died in KL though, so whatever he knew or didn't know probably died with him... and the war started soon after.
  10. What was Rhaegar Targaryen thinking?

    by deduction, Lewyn is a strong candidate.Who could Rhaegar's companions possibly be? we can add completely unknown characters to the story, or we can look at characters we know had ties to Rhaegar. We know Arthur Dayne and Oswell Whent were part of it and that Jaime and Barristan weren't. Rhaegar had two squires: Myles Mooton and Richard Lonmouth. The later is mentioned in the tale of the KotLT, as told by Meera Reed, so he seems like a character we should pay attention to. that's four companions counting two white cloaks and two squires. Who else? Jon Connington views himself as a good friend of Rhaegar's, he also happens to be mentioned in the tale of the KotLT. Sure, he doesn't appear to have been involved in the plot later on, but that does not eliminate him as a potential ally for the first part of it. The same goes for Lewyn Martell. Among the remaining Kingsguard he would seem like the most likely candidate to chose loyalty to Rhaegar over loyalty to Aerys, just because of Elia. (Gerold Hightower was LC and Jonothor Darry showed his loyalty to Aerys when he failed to protect Rhaella from her husband.) And before you argue against that, this only works if Rhaegar's motivations were not love and his goal was not to elope with Lyanna. And that's the theory I adhere too. You are free to adhere to your own theory and attribute other motivations to the characters, but keep in mind that I argue from a different stand point and do not believe that love and prophecy were Rhaegar's motivations. Though I do believe in R+L = J      
  11. What was Rhaegar Targaryen thinking?

    There's other explanations that work just as well and are also supported by the text: it's been rumored Harrenhal was a political ploy (cf. world book) Rhaegar went off with six trusted companions (cf. world book), only two stayed with him: Arthur and Oswell. There's a strong possibility one of these other companions was Lewyn Martell. Would Martell help Rhaegar if he thought Rhaenar intended adultery? Rhaegar, Oswell, Arthur and Lyanna ended up in a ruined tower overlooking the prince's pass (cf, map of westeros). The prince's pass is the main road to get into Dorne (the other road is the bone way). Not only that, but there are warden of the pass, controlling the area (House Manwoody of Kingsgrave). It seems unlikely that Doran Martell was unaware of Rhaegar's presence there...similarly, it seems stupid to bring his lover so close to a region of westeros controlled by his wife's family. imo, at the time Rhaegar rode to the Prince's pass, Lyanna was not his lover. (not yet)... it's possible they stayed at the ToJ because Doran Martell could no longer host them in fear of reprisal (see below, about Elia Martell) Elia and her children were, the last we heard, at dragonstone. Aegon was born there (world book) and Elia was bedridden for a long time after that. There's no mention of Elia and her children being in KL when Rhaegar left to the riverlands. (world book). Later they are in KL being held as hostages against the dornish. How did Elia go from being bedridden on Dragonstone to being a hostage in King's landing? Jaime remembers Rhaegar saying that things would change in KL and he should have done something a long time ago. Hinting that Rhaegar did, at one point, intend to take matters into his own hands and supporting the idea that Harrenhal was more than just a tourney in honor of Lord Whent's daughter. Why ever would Rhaegar have abandoned the political plot? If ever there was a time to put it in motions, it was after the birth of his son and heir. Jon Connington has ill feelings toward Elia (DwD). The man was in love with Rhaegar, his opinion is probably influenced by jealousy. How come he has no opinion concerning Lyanna, Rhaegar's supposed love interest? (Jon Connington might know something that we don't, and this something allows him to view Rhaegar's actions as motivated by something other than love.) => this points at a failed political plot imo, yet people prefer to view Rhaegar as a prophecy oriented fool. it could well be that Rhaegar, with the help of his closest friends the Martells, meant to rise arms against his father. The plot failed because Elia was made a hostage in KL and Brandon and Rickard Stark were executed, starting the war on terms that were not Rhaegar's own - and robbing him of precious allies. (in one strike Tully, Arryn, Stark and Baratheon are lost to him) imo, Rhaegar did both kidnap and rescue Lyanna. He rescued her from Aerys but kidnapped her as well, in order to gain leverage over house Stark and force Rickard Stark, who was absent at Harrenhal, to fight for him. (...If we go with the idea that Rhaegar financed the tourney of Harrenhal to gather the lords of the realm around him and get a measure of their loyalty, the fact that the warden of the north was absent is telling.) This supposes that there was an attempt of communication, a message (or more) informing the lord in question of what was going on. We have not heard of such - but that doesn't mean it didn't exist. We are lacking quite a bit of information concerning the events leading up to the war...  
  12. What was Rhaegar Targaryen thinking?

    it's the Rescue at the Crossroad theory that Lady Gwyn developed, based on similarities between asoiaf and arthurian legends. I think it's a pretty good theory. Basically, Aerys send his own men to arrest Lyanna who was somewhere in the riverlands, and Rhaegar upon hearing of the news, intervened and stole her away from his father's men. I'm not certain about the reason Aerys would have wanted Lyanna arrested, though. That he wanted her punished for riding in the tourney is my only reserve. It could be that Aerys was paranoid over lord Rickard Stark and his alliances with other great houses and that Aerys wanted to have leverage over him by holding his daughter prisoner. I mostly entertain this possibility because we know Aerys was paranoid and that no matter Rickard's intentions, Starks marrying Tullys and Baratheons would have raised eyebrows at court. We also know how eager the court can be to rip apart a potential rival, especially when said rival puts the status co at risk. The Starks were not common players on the political scene, their rise to power would have been perceived as a threat. In any case...Lady Dustin seems to think Lord Rickard was a bit too ambitious. So, I wonder, what did the King's small council think? Especially in view of the south's general prejudice towards the north? If these are the motivations, the question becomes: why arrest Lyanna and not Brandon? Maybe because Lyanna was an easier prey (far from Winterfell, apparently not at riverrun with her brother), or because taking Lyanna out of the game meant the end of the Stark and Baratheon alliance, and that may have been the one that bothered Aerys (+councilors) the most. By taking Lyanna, Aerys could also let Robert know that he did not agree with the match. Robert was Aerys's nephew (sort of), the King might have reserved himself the right to intervene in the match. Going with this other explanation, doesn't tell us why Rhaegar crowned Lyanna at the tourney, though. imo, he simply meant to acknowledge her valor. He might have, inadvertently, drawn Aerys' attention unto Lyanna as well. What seems revealing though, is the readiness with which Aerys executed Brandon's companions. It could be that Aerys expected treason before Brandon turned up - Brandon's arrival at KL, his demanding Rhaegar come out and fight, would only have confirmed the King's suspicion.
  13. Rhaella as Quaithe from Radio westeros

    Ashara Dayne as Quaithe, makes more sense imo. The Daynes are associated to stars and prophecy > plenty of hints linking AA to house Dayne, Edric Dayne is squire to the Beric Dondarrion, also heavily associated to the AA prophecy. Arthur Dayne and Ashara Dayne both played some sort of role during the rebellion. Daynes and Targaryens are kin through Dyanna Dayne, married to Maekar I... one of Aegon V's sister could have married into house Dayne again, making Arthur and Ashara not-so-distant cousins to Rhaegar, and his closest relatives after Baratheon and Blackwood. Anyway. imo, Ashara was not just Elia's lady in waiting, but actually Rhaegar's accomplice, the same as Arthur. Implying they both knew what Rhaegar was doing and (possibly) knew about the prophecy(ies?) as well. So...let's see if that works...When Rhaegar and Aegon died, it became obvious to Ashara that Rhaegar had erred - or, she lost hope because the "savior" Aegon was dead. Basically, she lost faith at that point...only to learn that Arthur died out of loyalty to Rhaegar, as well. The child she lost beforehand made her more vulnerable, too. Is that a good reason to throw yourself off a tower? She was reborn in the sea and went to Asshai to find some much needed answers....  
  14. Darkstar is the Bastard Prince

    And that is perhaps, precisely what makes Darkstar dangerous? Not the fact he was at the ToJ and knows about R+L, but the fact that he knows that Doran knew "something" and didn't act accordingly? and if Doran knew "something" and failed to act on it, might it be that he is partly responsible for how the war played out? That is if, we look at the political dimension of the rebellion? Is there something we are missing there and that involves the Dornish?
  15. Would Elia be okay with Rhaegar+Lyanna?

    Any medieval noble woman would have kept their silence over it. What power does the princess of dorne have to act against the crown prince of westeros? none. In westeros, women have little say and the dornish host alone cannot start a war.