Minuteman Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Curious about other theories beyond the obvious R+L=J for Jon's lineage. To me this only works if Lyanna is already pregnant at the Harrenhal tourney. In this version Rickkon Stark is pulling a Hoster Tully by forcing Lyanna to down some moon tea and a hastily arranged marriage to Robert. Rhaegar is therefore interceding to ensure the child is born (why? no idea - perhaps Varys spreading poison or something deeper). The only one I may offer is Brandon Stark who was also looking at an imminent (and hastily arranged?) marriage to Cat. Perhaps there is some consequence to a Stark purebred and would explain both Jon's appearance and Lyanna's concern as Jon would not merely be a bastard but also an "abomination" so would otherwise be killed even by the honorable Ned. I agree that Rhaegar seems the most obvious but wanted to poll for other theories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Ok, but Lyanna's father is Rickard. Rickon is her nephew. The Lyanna is pregnant by Harrenhal and Robert was a forced betrothal thing doesn't work with the text. Robert was the one who came up with the idea and went to Rickard about it. We don't really get any sense of what Lyanna thought but they were engaged before Harrenhal. Jon's not old enough for Lyanna to have been pregnant with him at that point. He was conceived approximately three months into her captivity. That tourney took place about a year before she disappeared. The betrothal between Cat and Brandon was done when Cat was 12 so no it wasn't hastily arranged. Also Brandon died before Jon would have been conceived. The best non-Rhaegar theories for who is Jon's father are, in order of probability: Aerys; Arthur Dayne; Oswell Whent; Howland Reed; Mance Rayder; peasant number 42. Really the only one worth discussing is Aerys. It's possible and has been theorized that Aerys was the one who ordered the kidnapping and Rhaegar actually saved Lyanna after she was raped by his father. That would mean she wasn't at the ToJ the full year that she was missing, but as no one seemed to know where she was it still works. It rules Jon out for The Prince that was Promised though. There's a possible case I suppose for Arthur or Oswell, but only if Lyanna was in love with one of them (doubtful) and Rhaegar was planning to allow KG to marry. Howland and Mance are good at sneaking around but it's almost impossible that either could have found Lyanna, slept with her, and gotten out of there before being found by Rheagar's men. For the sake of argument, let's say Lyanna wasn't a virgin. Not that she was pregnant, but that she'd been with someone and was terrified of Robert's and her father's reaction. She might have looked to someone honorable and noble for help--like Rhaegar. Who was going to go up against the crown prince, after all? This would explain Ned's comment about her wolf blood being part of what killed her without making her a home-wrecking slut. Then her lover would most likely have been a Northerner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 *double post* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHouseHB Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Patchface is Jons father. Patchface went crazy when Lyanna gave him an STD while conceiving Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazfemur Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Patchface is Jons father. Patchface went crazy when Lyanna gave him an STD while conceiving Jon. it's not patchface, for crying out loud thats just fan fiction. It's Moonboy, for all i know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaegal Targaryen Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Wyman Manderley is Jon's father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game Of Thrones Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 X+L=J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BastardlyRock Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 X+L=JOh no, this is beginning to look all too much like high school algebra all over again :P somebody else better take the reigns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlainJeyne Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 First of all... Ew.Don't we have enough incest? Is these any textual evidence that the Starks would be anything less than repulsed by the notion of brother/sister incest? Secondly, the timeline doesn't work unless Lyanna gestated as long as an elephant. Thirdly, if Any non-R person+L=J, then what would be the point of all of the foreshadowing? It would be weird story-wise. It seems extremely unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardtack Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Don't we have enough incest? Is these any textual evidence that the Starks would be anything less than repulsed by the notion of brother/sister incest? a - never b - Ned is filled with shame when thinking about Jon, and would could be more shameful than getting your sister pregnant? :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazfemur Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Without being too much of an evangelist, it doesnt matter to me anymore who Jon's parents are. He's half Stark, which means, he has first men blood. Which means, he can turn Other. It's not so much about where he came from thats a mystery any more, but rather where he's going. Oh, he'll ascend to royalty, and he'll even be king. But not the king you're thinking about :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.T.'s Sexual Healing Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 It's clearly WW+L=J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost's Shadow Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 It's a bit difficult for Brandon to have fathered Jon, as in vitro didn't exist yet and neither can sperm time-travel. Stark + Stark is abomination that should be killed? Well, there goes Brandon, Ned, Lyanna and Benjen. Then might as well take out Robb, Jon, Sansa, Arya, Bran and Rickon in the next generation, too. No more Starks. Happy? ;) Since you're new, please don't think that people haven't tried to come up with alternatives to R+L=J forever. But they just don't work. Everything's tried before, and everything's failed to hold. Though perhaps that's because people had never pushed forward Patchface and Moonboy before. :cool4: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.T.'s Sexual Healing Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 It's a bit difficult for Brandon to have fathered Jon, as in vitro didn't exist yet and neither can sperm time-travel. I don't believe sperm time travel has been debunked, so in my eyes, it's still a valid scientific theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minuteman Posted August 27, 2014 Author Share Posted August 27, 2014 It's a bit difficult for Brandon to have fathered Jon, as in vitro didn't exist yet and neither can sperm time-travel. Brandon the older brother of Lyanna not Brandon the nephew. Stark + Stark is abomination that should be killed? Well, there goes Brandon, Ned, Lyanna and Benjen. Then might as well take out Robb, Jon, Sansa, Arya, Bran and Rickon in the next generation, too. No more Starks. Happy? Other than the Targs there seems to be general revulsion for incest. I seem to recall Ned being down on it when he figured out Jaime was the father of Cersei's children. I'm not saying that there is any substance to my idea but was more interested in alternatives to the presumptive R+L=J. I don't think that Jon is Ned's because of a wolf dream where the wolf talked about his brothers and sisters and the other who stands apart and has no voice (Ghost) - so Ghost/Jon isn't a sibling. Probably it is Rhaegar (Ghost doesn't shy from Melissandre's touch and Targ=R'hllor) but not definitively proven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Brandon the older brother of Lyanna not Brandon the nephew. Other than the Targs there seems to be general revulsion for incest. I seem to recall Ned being down on it when he figured out Jaime was the father of Cersei's children. I'm not saying that there is any substance to my idea but was more interested in alternatives to the presumptive R+L=J. I don't think that Jon is Ned's because of a wolf dream where the wolf talked about his brothers and sisters and the other who stands apart and has no voice (Ghost) - so Ghost/Jon isn't a sibling. Probably it is Rhaegar (Ghost doesn't shy from Melissandre's touch and Targ=R'hllor) but not definitively proven. Yes, Brandon the older brother of Lyanna is the one Ghost's Shadow was talking about. He was dead months before Jon was conceived, thus for him to be Jon's father would require time-traveling sperm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNR Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Yes, Brandon the older brother of Lyanna is the one Ghost's Shadow was talking about. He was dead months before Jon was conceived, thus for him to be Jon's father would require time-traveling sperm. Not necessarily. Brandon could have had normal sperm, and Lyanna's egg could have traveled backward in time, then forward again once implanted. I don't know why people think Brandon was the only possible Stark with time-traveling gametes! It's so sexist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Not necessarily. Brandon could have had normal sperm, and Lyanna's egg could have traveled backward in time, then forward again once implanted. I don't know why people think Brandon was the only possible Stark with time-traveling gametes! It's so sexist. I don't think it's a sexism issue so much as the fact that sperm are way more hardy than eggs are. Eggs need just the right environment. Time travel could easily damage them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazfemur Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 for fuck's sake i hope it's aerys plus lyanna. lmao. thatd be so goddamn awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 H+L=A Hotpie + Lyanna = AWESOME! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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