Daenerys Three Treasons

[arek]

My theory

Blood - MMD

Gold - Daario will betray her for gold id say as mormont was in it for a pardon not gold

Love - Tyrion will betray Dany to save Jaime from her (because despite everything he still loves his brother)

[Gravity Gun]

Love - Tyrion will betray Dany to save Jaime from her (because despite everything he still loves his brother)

[Ptolemy]

I hate you guys and this forum!

I was perfectly happy just re-reading the books waiting for ADWD, then, then I stumble upon this forum, first I only checked it out from time to time, now you got me doing it everyday, all day. All I do is read posts that make me rethink everything, wonder about things, I was perfectly content to wait for in the books.

My boss is going to kill me, I get far less done around the office (thank god for permanent tenure and government jobs).

Any way, back to the point: what do you think of this Tyrion betrays Dany for love, but not for his love of her or Jaime, but for his love/obsession with dragons.

So, don't all tear me up at once.

All the best!

[Ser Bruce the Hound KG]

what if Jorah Mormont treason was for love insteed of Money ? Love of one country could count. no?

[TheStallionWhoMountsDany]

I'm of the opinion that none of the three treasons have happened yet. I think it will be Tyrion for Blood, Illyrio for Gold, and Jon Snow, or else some Greyjoy, for love.

[betrayer of hope]

By Love, will it be someone Dany loves, or someone who loves Dany, or both?

Anyways, I definitely think Jorah Mormont and MMD count as betrayals. The third still has to take place, I think.

[Barba]

Ok, I don't belive noone did this yet, so I will. Here is the Quote from the book

. . . three heads has the dragon . . .

. . . three fires must you light . . . one for life and one for death and one to love . . .

. . . three mounts must you ride . . . one to bed and one to dread and one to love . . .

. . . three treasons will you know . . . once for blood and once for gold and once for love . . .

[Ser Greguh]

The "Blood" treason:

People seem quick to assume that this is MMD. I'm not sure what MMD did counts specifically as "Treason." To me, treason signifies that there was a loyalty implied between them that MMD betrayed. I don't ever recall there being any such thing. MMD never declared herself as Dany's follower, merely stated that she was capable of "saving" Khal Drogo's life. She gave Dany, in a roundabout, half-logical way, exactly what Dany asked for - Dany interprets this as a betrayal because she was naive and had no idea what she was asking for.

Jorah certainly counts as a betrayal, but what's the motivation? People are quick to assume it was gold, but nowhere to my knowledge did we ever get any information that Varys actually paid Jorah; rather, he promised him that he could go home. He claims to have loved Dany, and that seals it for Dany that his betrayal was for love, but that doesn't really make any sense at all, unless you're talking about his love for his homeland (indeed, it would be accurate to say that Jorah betrayed Dany in spite of his love).

Jorah's betrayal counts more, from my camp, as a betrayal for blood; not blood in the same sense that people are interpreting MMD's "betrayal", but blood in the sense of, his blood relations; he is of House Mormont, his blood ties are to Bear Island.

I don't think Gold or Love have happened yet (Dany interprets Xaro's sending of the Sorrowful Man to kill her as a betrayal for gold, but that makes no sense at all to me). It's anyone's guess as to what those will be.

[Grant Dempsey]

Hmm, I just had an idea for a theory, although quite possibly just a crackpot one.

Well, let's assume Littlefinger was indeed being honest when he spoke of his plans to use the might of the Vale of Arryn to conquer the North. Now, let's imagine he's successful in doing so, and then uses his authority/influence in the Riverlands and those other two of the Seven Kingdoms as a bargaining chip for marrying Daenerys Targaryen himself when she finally arrives in Westeros in exchange for thereby quickly getting her the official support of half the realm. However, his attraction toward Sansa Stark finally ends up getting the best of him, and so he tries to somehow arrange for Dany's death to be free to wed again, although probably then intending to keep his claim to the Iron Throne as her widower.

Littlefinger would be the one to commit betrayal for :love: .

[Edmund Waters]

With three dragons and an army of Unsullied Dany doesn't need the support of Littlefinger...

[Stratonice]

With three dragons and an army of Unsullied Dany doesn't need the support of Littlefinger...

[Ser Ego]

Barba, You bring up the point I was already thinking of bringing up when I started reading this thread. Everyone is assuming the person doing the second treason is doing it to get gold. But MMD was a treason against Dany because Drogo took bood from MMD. She says as much in the end to Dany when Dany asks her why. Here is something else I foung interesting looking at the prophecy lined up the way Barba has it in the post:

1st fire for life, 1st mount to bed and 1st treason for blood. What is the general consensus on these? Dany lit the 1st fire to honor Drogo who died because of the 1st treason. She also planned on hatching the dragons because she knew she needed a fire hot enough and said as much to MMD just before she lit the fire which is why MMD was finally scared instead of defiant. So the 1st fire was, in my opinion, the 1st fire for life. She rode her first horse because she was married to Drogo so her first horse carried her to bed with him. So the 1sts are all tied to the same person. Life for the dragons came from the death of Drogo, Dany's first mount took her to Drogo's bed and Drogo took the blood that MMD committed the treason to avenge.

So do the 2nds all tie together as well? 2nd fire for death, 2nd mount to dread and 2nd treason for gold. Dany is stll riding her silver so she hasn't chosen a second mount yet. Her second mount might have been one of her dragons if the 5 year gap had remained but it might be a while before we see that. Maybe all the seconds will happen when Dany finally visits Asshai as Quaithe told her she had to so that she could "touch the light."

[crackpot] Of course, the mounts may not be so literal and so the first mount takes her to the Dothraki and the second mount takes her to Qarth and dread. In Qarth her dragon lights a fire for the death of the undying ones and they send a sorrowful man to kill her so he is betraying her for gold. So the 2nds could all be the Warlocks of Qarth. But that interpretation depends on how you view the "mounts."

Edit: And if you interpret it that way then the 3rd mount takes her to Slaver's Bay where the slaves love her, the fire she lights is a symbol of the war on the 3 cities that she lights for love and she commits treason against the cities for the love of the slaves. [/crackpot]

ego :D

[Tears of Lys]

Which sort of brings me to this: I've read more than a few posts on this board that say they don't think a Jon/Dany match will happen because that would be too predictable. But why should that be a bad thing? By creating so many twists and turns GRRM has already made the series too long. Sooner or later he needs to tighten things up and get the story moving. Something predictable won't necessarily be a bad thing, if he can write it well (and he certainly can). After all, who had ever doubted that Frodo would successfully complete the ring quest? And yet LORT is still the monument that it is.

[Jon Targaryen]

Since this came up a few times in the thread, the reason many people believe Jon and Dany will have some sort of romantic relationship comes from the same House of the Undying vision. In it, there is a "bride of fire" triplet wherein one is described as a blue flower growing from a chink in a wall of ice. That blue flower is seen to be Jon.

As to the main thread topic, I don't really know. Dany thinks Jorah is the one for love but everyone seems to think she is mistaken. I'm not sure, not even of the blood one anymore.

[b09boy]

I think Jorah's was the betrayal of love. It's mentioned often and loudly that he loved his homeland and only wanted to return to it. What more hint would you want from Martin?

[BabberSher]

I think Jorah's was the betrayal of love. It's mentioned often and loudly that he loved his homeland and only wanted to return to it. What more hint would you want from Martin?

[Lann_Boys'Girl]

It all depends on the wording. "For love." Does that mean that, say (and I do like this theory, heard it a while ago) that Tyrion will betray her for love of his brother? (you know, some sort of confrontation between Dany and Jaime, the guy who killed her father, is certainly plausible) Or would it mean, someone betrays her out of love for her? Like, maybe she's putting herself in a very dangerous situation and someone betrays her in order to prevent her from harming herself?

The other thing, like others have mentioned, is the timeline. She sees this vision in the House of the Undying long after MMD's crime - so, did the prophecy exist prior to MMD's actions, and so MMD counts as a treason for blood, or is the prophecy effective only from that point in ACoK-onward?

SPOILER: ADWD

I'm inclined to believe it's the former, because the Quaithe prophecy that starts "first comes the pale mare" I believe pertains to Dany's arrival, not to someone who has yet to appear to Dany.

[BabberSher]

Interesting post "Lann_Boys'Girl" :cheers:

[Ser Ego]

Lann_Boys'Girl, you prompted me to do some more research on this thread. I started thinking the other night when reading the prophecy again and thought the text immediately after it in the chapter might be relevant.

three heads has the dragon . . . the ghost chorus yammered inside her skull with never a lip moving, never a breath stirring the still blue air. . . . mother of dragons . . . child of storm . . . The whispers became a swirling song. . . . three fires must you light . . . one for life and one for death and one to love . . . Her own heart was beating in unison to the one that floated before her, blue and corrupt . . . three mounts must you ride . . . one to bed and one to dread and one to love . . . The voices were growing louder, she realized, and it seemed her heart was slowing, and even her breath. . . . three treasons will you know . . . once for blood and once for gold and once for love . . .

"I don't . . ." Her voice was no more than a whisper, almost as faint as theirs. What was happening to her? "I don't understand," she said, more loudly. Why was it so hard to talk here? "Help me. Show me." . . . help her . . . the whispers mocked. . . . show her . . .

Then phantoms shivered through the murk, images in indigo. Viserys screamed as the molten gold ran down his cheeks and filled his mouth. A tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair stood beneath the banner of a fiery stallion, a burning city behind him. Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman's name. . . . mother of dragons, daughter of death . . . Glowing like sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow. A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd. From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire. . . . mother of dragons, slayer of lies . . . Her silver was trotting through the grass, to a darkling stream beneath a sea of stars. A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly. A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness. . . . mother of dragons, bride of fire . . .

[Jon Targaryen]

The other thing, like others have mentioned, is the timeline. She sees this vision in the House of the Undying long after MMD's crime - so, did the prophecy exist prior to MMD's actions, and so MMD counts as a treason for blood, or is the prophecy effective only from that point in ACoK-onward?