Similarities and Paralells Between ASOIAF and Frank Herbert's 'Dune' novels

[Darkbringer]

I am an unabashed fanboy of Frank Herberts Dune series, have probably reread it about 10 times. Its probably my favourite, although ASOIAF exceeds it in some departments. I think George has taken a few influences here and there, I would be interested to hear everyones thoughts.

Faceless Men- These are clearly based on the Tlelaxu face dancers, with some differences. The main differences are that the FM are not a seperate society per-se, but similarities abound, especially the weird moral code which is nevertheless taken very seriously.

Catelyn- Reminds me alot of the Lady Jessica. Wife to a noble husband who was killed by imperial plotting and schemes, when he came too close to power and thereby threatened those who weild it. Catelyn, like Jessica, is bred to be a wife of the nobility, and is normally exquisitely poised, yet sometimes loses that composure when her children are threatened.

Silent Players- Quaithe, Asshai, The Citadel, Marwyn, Bloodraven, Faceless Men. There are alot of institutions in ASOIAF which weild power from a passive or hidden position, steering events and only taking action subtly and at critical junctures. This is similar to the roles played by the Bene Gesserit, bene Tleilax, the Guild and Ix in the dune novels. It becomes apparent that the Emperors, kings and Dukes who you thought were the most important characters are often only pawns.

Warlocks- Drink shade of the evening for visions which turns their lips blue- Mentats drink sapho berry juice for mental clarity which stains their lips red.

Jon- The special mix of genes (targ and Stark) which will produce the PtwP, and thereby defeat the WW evil and end the long night. Like Paul Atreides, product of the Bene Gesserit secret breeding program who was bred to be a super-human with the ability to see through time.

Any others?

[SomeFremen]

We could find a few more.

In Dune the Honored Matres ran back from the expansion, from an unknown enemy. The Others are an unknown enemy and the people coming back are the wildlings. Also this enemy might be of human origin in both cases and might end somewhat similarly the same. I won't say how, in fear that some did not read the last books of Frank Herbert's son.

In Dune that enemy was fought before, thousands of years before; everybody tought the enemy was gone, but wasn't really (in Sandworms of Dune), it just gathered forces. Just like the Others.

In Dune, by use of spice, some could get a glimpse of the future, but it was not a certain future, just like Melisandre's "profecies" (her profecies were not bulletproof).

Edit: Leto Atreidis, Paul's father, was a very honorable man and was put in a position from which he lost his life similar to Ned Stark, by being ofered an important position he could not refuse.

I will keep thinking of paralels and get back to you :)

[Darkbringer]

We could find a few more.

In Dune the Honored Matres ran back from the expansion, from an unknown enemy. The Others are an unknown enemy and the people coming back are the wildlings. Also this enemy might be of human origin in both cases and might end somewhat similarly the same. I won't say how, in fear that some did not read the last books of Frank Herbert's son.

In Dune that enemy was fought before, thousands of years before; everybody tought the enemy was gone, but wasn't really (in Sandworms of Dune), it just gathered forces. Just like the Others.

In Dune, by use of spice, some could get a glimpse of the future, but it was not a certain future, just like Melisandre's "profecies".

I will keep thinking of paralels and get back to you :)

Edit: Leto Atreidis, Paul's father, was a very honorable man and was put in a position from which he lost his life similar to Ned Stark, by being ofered an important position he could not refuse.

Nice one. To be honest I am one of the Jacurutu (the cast out) who dont like the Brian Herbert books, but I dont throw shade at thjose who do :).

Yeah prophesy and glimpses of the future play a big role in both books, although nobody in ASOIAF has close to Paul's power.

[Darkbringer]

Edit: Leto Atreidis, Paul's father, was a very honorable man and was put in a position from which he lost his life similar to Ned Stark, by being ofered an important position he could not refuse.

yeah big time, probably the biggest similarity actually. Leto and Ned are both very likeable and were both betrayed by someone close to them, to their death.

[SeanF]

Paul more resembles Daenerys than Jon, IMHO.

[SomeFremen]

Nice one. To be honest I am one of the Jacurutu (the cast out) who dont like the Brian Herbert books, but I dont throw shade at thjose who do :).

Yeah prophesy and glimpses of the future play a big role in both books, although nobody in ASOIAF has close to Paul's power.

Well Paul's power of future seing is similar to prophecys. He sees probable events but doesn't see the circumstances by which they lead up the the event. However in both cases these prophecies are vague, since we don't know in ASOIAF which ones will turn out real and how they will be made true, since they are all coved in methaphores, just as the Enemy from Dune was revealed very late.

I myself enjoyed Brian's books, since they finally ended the series. He did ok.

If God forbit, something happened and we would have an ending to ASOIAF in 20-30 years (like in the case of Dune)... this tought gives me chilles. That's why I'm happy the show will end before the book, because it will be done in GRRM's supervision.

yeah big time, probably the biggest similarity actually. Leto and Ned are both very likeable and were both betrayed by someone close to them, to their death.

I think we could find more character similarities, such as Jon's posible rebirth and finding out the truth about his parents, as Paul had a rebirth after taking the water of life.

I said before and I'll say it again: GRRM got ideeas from many sources, such as the Death Note, Dune, history, videogames and many other sources. Yet ASOIAF is filled with his original ones added to these already great ones in a wonderfull fashion and in addition his style of writing is just great.

[Darkbringer]

Paul more resembles Daenerys than Jon, IMHO.

I suppose Dany has actually displayed unusual abilities, unburnt, hatch dragons etc. Also she was exiiled to live amongst a group of hardy primitives after her father was killed. But Ned is much more like Leto than Aerys is, IMO, so I still say Jon. Dany has the "messiah" problems that Paul had in Dune Messiah aned Children of Dune. The burden of being a messianic leader who's quickly conquered empire is rapidly turning to shit and who is having to make decisions which deconstruct their own self image. Hmmm maybe dany after all.

[Mithras]

Paul more resembles Daenerys than Jon, IMHO.

Most certainly not. Dany was not conceived to fulfill a prophecy as far as we know.

[SomeFremen]

Paul more resembles Daenerys than Jon, IMHO.

Paul resembles Daenerys indeed, but also Jon (being a good fighter when new at the wall, was like training the fremens. Also being reborn and finding out truth's) and Arya (she is maturing in harsh conditions, unless she moves to the dark side and becomes like Paul's sister). These are similarities but in no way the paralel is one to one.

[SomeFremen]

I suppose Dany has actually displayed unusual abilities, unburnt, hatch dragons etc. Also she was exiiled to live amongst a group of hardy primitives after her father was killed. But Ned is much more like Leto than Aerys is, IMO, so I still say Jon. Dany has the "messiah" problems that Paul had in Dune Messiah aned Children of Dune. The burden of being a messianic leader who's quickly conquered empire is rapidly turning to shit and who is having to make decisions which deconstruct their own self image. Hmmm maybe dany after all.

Paul more resembles Daenerys than Jon, IMHO.

The ideea of being reborn is similar to Paul's taking the water of life, for Dany, Jon and the third uncertain yet dragon. I think the Paul "role" is split in three and Dany definitely qualifies.

Also he who controls the spice controls the universe. Same could be said of dragons and the known world. Whoever has dragons wins.

[Darkbringer]

Well Paul's power of future seing is similar to prophecys. He sees probable events but doesn't see the circumstances by which they lead up the the event. However in both cases these prophecies are vague, since we don't know in ASOIAF which ones will turn out real and how they will be made true, since they are all coved in methaphores, just as the Enemy from Dune was revealed very late.

I myself enjoyed Brian's books, since they finally ended the series. He did ok.

If God forbit, something happened and we would have an ending to ASOIAF in 20-30 years (like in the case of Dune)... this tought gives me chilles. That's why I'm happy the show will end before the book, because it will be done in GRRM's supervision.

I think we could find more character similarities, such as Jon's posible rebirth and finding out the truth about his parents, as Paul had a rebirth after taking the water of life.

I said before and I'll say it again: GRRM got ideeas from many sources, such as the Death Note, Dune, history, videogames and many other sources. Yet ASOIAF is filled with his original ones added to these already great ones in a wonderfull fashion and in addition his style of writing is just great.

Yeah good call. he may awaken from his long death-like sleep like pauls sleep after the untransformed water of life, with knowledge of R+L=J, like Paul realised he was half Harkonnen.

- agree GRRM is great in his own right and it makes me glad to think that my favorite Sci-fi author influenced my favorite fantasy author.

[Lemonking]

Sand - Both Dorne and Dune, have a lot of it!

[Darkbringer]

Most certainly not. Dany was not conceived to fulfill a prophecy as far as we know.

To be fair only Jessica knew he might be the Kwisats Haderach, but point taken. Dany's problems in ADWD do resemble Pauls in Dune Messiah, however.

[SomeFremen]

Sand - Both Dorne and Dune, have a lot of it!

You just discovered the best similarity - > Sand Snakes of Dorne !

[SomeFremen]

To be fair only Jessica knew he might be the Kwisats Haderach, but point taken. Dany's problems in ADWD do resemble Pauls in Dune Messiah, however.

Well Lyanna might have known the prophecies so it makes it similar to Jessica.

[Darkbringer]

Paul resembles Daenerys indeed, but also Jon (being a good fighter when new at the wall, was like training the fremens. Also being reborn and finding out truth's) and Arya (she is maturing in harsh conditions, unless she moves to the dark side and becomes like Paul's sister). These are similarities but in no way the paralel is one to one.

Oh! Just got this one! Duncan Idaho as Beric Dondarrion, the endless cycle of ghola rebirths/ Rhillor resurrections after death. Both are quite likeable characters as well.

[SomeFremen]

Oh! Just got this one! Duncan Idaho as Beric Dondarrion, the endless cycle of ghola rebirths/ Rhillor resurrections after death. Both are quite likeable characters as well.

Beric was a few times resurected, but Duncan was resurected for thousands of years and became a very very important piece to the ending.

[SeanF]

Most certainly not. Dany was not conceived to fulfill a prophecy as far as we know.

Most certainly not. Dany was not conceived to fulfill a prophecy as far as we know.

Her parents were forced to marry each other, in order to fulfil a prophecy that TPWWP would come from their line. Not an exact parallel to Paul, but similar.

[Darkbringer]

Beric was a few times resurected, but Duncan was resurected for thousands of years and became a very very important piece to the ending.

I still think its a very similar theme. Also Beric's "are you my mother, Thoros?" speech had a very similar tone to the speech by Idaho to Leto II- "there is a time when you are meant to be alive, it has a certain magic..." Both are reflective on the cruelty that can actually come with man's greatest wish, immortality.

[SeanF]

I suppose Dany has actually displayed unusual abilities, unburnt, hatch dragons etc. Also she was exiiled to live amongst a group of hardy primitives after her father was killed. But Ned is much more like Leto than Aerys is, IMO, so I still say Jon. Dany has the "messiah" problems that Paul had in Dune Messiah aned Children of Dune. The burden of being a messianic leader who's quickly conquered empire is rapidly turning to shit and who is having to make decisions which deconstruct their own self image. Hmmm maybe dany after all.

Paul became a tyrant. I'm not sure if that's Dany's fate.