evita mgfs

[Book Spoilers All] Bran’s Growing Powers in S6 Based upon the Reread

532 posts in this topic

Well its gonna be hard to talk Bran in Season 6 without R&R'ing a little because of the show's track record of missing the point and the very little info we have to go on.  We don't know if they're planning to rush through all his material cause they thought it was boring (like Sansa in season 4), stretch it out so they can have a big episode 9 moment (like Jon in season 4), or just go completely off-book (like most of season 5).  We don't know if they plan to up his powers so that he's not limited to the weirwood net, tone it down because magic is boring, or randomly jump back and forth.  We don't even know if they plan to stick to Bran's story or use him fill in the gaps on the backstory they never covered.

In the books, Bran's story is intricately tied to Jon and Theon, and I think the reason his chapters cut off halfway through ADWD (and the reason we have no sample chapters for him) is that we'll get at least one chapter (preferably more) taking place before the climax of ADWD.  Chapters that will fundamentally change the way we view Jon and Theon's stories and shape the way they develop.  The show has already missed this opportunity. 

I think we'll learn a little history in season 6 and see Bran's power expand, and its likely that he'll play a part in Jon's resurrection.  I think Bran "meeting" the Night's King was nothing more than a jump scare but we might learn more of them.

If I watch season 6, what I'll be looking for is the relationship between Bran and BR and the way BR is depicted.  If they plan to stay faithful in any way to ASOIAF the character and motivations of BR will be far more important than the plot points they will inevitably butcher.

Whew!!!  Got through that whole thing without R&R'ing at all, I'm so proud of myself. :D

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1 minute ago, thehandwipes said:

Well its gonna be hard to talk Bran in Season 6 without R&R'ing a little because of the show's track record of missing the point and the very little info we have to go on.  We don't know if they're planning to rush through all his material cause they thought it was boring (like Sansa in season 4), stretch it out so they can have a big episode 9 moment (like Jon in season 4), or just go completely off-book (like most of season 5).  We don't know if they plan to up his powers so that he's not limited to the weirwood net, tone it down because magic is boring, or randomly jump back and forth.  We don't even know if they plan to stick to Bran's story or use him fill in the gaps on the backstory they never covered.

In the books, Bran's story is intricately tied to Jon and Theon, and I think the reason his chapters cut off halfway through ADWD (and the reason we have no sample chapters for him) is that we'll get at least one chapter (preferably more) taking place before the climax of ADWD.  Chapters that will fundamentally change the way we view Jon and Theon's stories and shape the way they develop.  The show has already missed this opportunity. 

I think we'll learn a little history in season 6 and see Bran's power expand, and its likely that he'll play a part in Jon's resurrection.  I think Bran "meeting" the Night's King was nothing more than a jump scare but we might learn more of them.

If I watch season 6, what I'll be looking for is the relationship between Bran and BR and the way BR is depicted.  If they plan to stay faithful in any way to ASOIAF the character and motivations of BR will be far more important than the plot points they will inevitably butcher.

Whew!!!  Got through that whole thing without R&R'ing at all, I'm so proud of myself. :D

I'M PROUD OF YOU AS WELL.:cheers:

We do not mind a few rants and raves - it's the nature of the game and of passionate readers of Martin's texts.

You might like to read our thread in the reread because we trace Bran's growing powers AFTER his last point of view in ADwD.  We have discovered that Bran manifests himself in a variety of ways, through the ravens and in the mists and fog, to name a few.

We also heavily discuss Bran's ability to reach his siblings as evidenced in the texts.  You might enjoy our finds and wish to contribute your astute observations.

I am keeping my expectations at a minimum and trying to focus on the beautiful cinematography, the good acting, amazing costumes, the special effects, and the impressive sets/settings.  Now, I am not a Pollyanna - and I am sure something will happen in the upcoming episodes that will royally piss me off - but at least I know I have a good place to go to air my griefs.:wub:

 

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2 minutes ago, evita mgfs said:

I'M PROUD OF YOU AS WELL.:cheers:

We do not mind a few rants and raves - it's the nature of the game and of passionate readers of Martin's texts.

You might like to read our thread in the reread because we trace Bran's growing powers AFTER his last point of view in ADwD.  We have discovered that Bran manifests himself in a variety of ways, through the ravens and in the mists and fog, to name a few.

We also heavily discuss Bran's ability to reach his siblings as evidenced in the texts.  You might enjoy our finds and wish to contribute your astute observations.

I am keeping my expectations at a minimum and trying to focus on the beautiful cinematography, the good acting, amazing costumes, the special effects, and the impressive sets/settings.  Now, I am not a Pollyanna - and I am sure something will happen in the upcoming episodes that will royally piss me off - but at least I know I have a good place to go to air my griefs.:wub:

 

I'm thinking of heading over there after I hit the R&R thread real fast, but I've been actively avoiding the Book Forum (or the good threads at least) for the last couple of months.  Particularly, the in depth analysis threads started by highly insightful people to avoid potential spoilers before TWOW was released.  But I was really hoping that would have been early this year. 

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44 minutes ago, thehandwipes said:

I'm thinking of heading over there after I hit the R&R thread real fast, but I've been actively avoiding the Book Forum (or the good threads at least) for the last couple of months.  Particularly, the in depth analysis threads started by highly insightful people to avoid potential spoilers before TWOW was released.  But I was really hoping that would have been early this year. 

We'd love to have you join our discussion!

Here's a little taste:

On 3/2/2016 at 9:45 PM, The Fattest Leech said:

 

Bran’s POV’s gradually become fewer and grow farther apart over the five of seven completed novels promised in George R. R. Martin’s series A Song of Ice and Fire. A good way to illustrate this is through comparing the number and frequency of Bran’s multiple POV’s in the first novel A Game of Thrones with the most recently published fifth novel A Dance with Dragons, in which Bran’s last POV appears not even halfway through the novel.

Martin invites A Song of Ice and Fire readers especially to hunt elsewhere in ADwD and the gift chapters from The Winds of Winter to find intimations of the newest, greenest of the greenseer’s growing powers.

These POV’s Martin attributes to Theon, or to his nom deplumes - the Prince of Winterfell, the Turncloak, and the Ghost in Winterfell - teem with Bran’s presence as he exercises his green-magic powers, many of which Martin suggests in Bran’s lessons with greenseer Bloodraven and the representative Singer(s) who Bran and Meera call Leaf.

One of many examples is that Bran learns to use the ravens [among other means] to speak. Martin demonstrates Bran’s progress, from “screams” to words.

BR teaches and Bran learns to fly. But when Bran attempts to speak employing the raven’s voice, he screams:


“When he [bran] tried to speak, it came out in a scream” (ADwD 450).


In Theon’s POVs to follow, a raven opines its dissatisfaction with events by punctuating them with a scream.

On Ramsay’s wedding night, when he begins his degradation of his bride and Reek, a raven in the godswood “screams”.


In The Turncloak, when Theon walks the walls of Winterfell, he finds himself in what had been Maester Luwin’s rookery, a raven issues a “scream” of guarded welcome.

“. . . ravens looked down . . . muttering to one another. From time to time, one let out a raucousscream” (540).


Later, a raven speaks the name “Theon” and another the word “Tree”.


In AGoT, Martin describes Bran’s fall, emphasizing his “scream” by using it as an introductory participial defining Bran’s action:


Screaming, Bran went backward out the window into the empty air” (AGoT 85).


In A Clash of Kings, Bran reacts to Rickon’s betrayal with screaming:


“Rickon even showed them [the Frey wards] the deep vaults under the earth where the stonemason was carving father’s tomb. “You had no right!” Bran screamed at his brother when he heard. ‘That was our place, a Stark place!’ But Rickon never cared” (ACoK 78).


Note in ADwD, when Lady Dustin’s retainers break open the crypts, the door “hinges screaming” (544) as if in disapproval.


In The Prince of Winterfell, Bran speaks the name Theon through manipulating the leaves of the heart tree:

“The night was windless, the snow drifting straight down out of a cold black sky, yet the leaves of the heart tree were rustling his name. ‘Theon.’ They seemed to whisper ‘Theon.’”


Moreover, Bran masters using the tree’s mouth to speak:


“. . . Bran,” the tree murmured” (616).


Through these examples, Martin marks Bran’s wizardry advancing as he gives voices to the heart tree’s leaves and mouth, to assorted ravens, and to the door hinges leading into Winterfell’s crypts. Moreover, by associating screaming with Bran in earlier novels, the author unifies and emphasizes the ‘finding a voice’ motif.

Leech has a great thread as well!

 

 

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1 hour ago, thehandwipes said:

Well its gonna be hard to talk Bran in Season 6 without R&R'ing a little because of the show's track record of missing the point and the very little info we have to go on.  We don't know if they're planning to rush through all his material cause they thought it was boring (like Sansa in season 4), stretch it out so they can have a big episode 9 moment (like Jon in season 4), or just go completely off-book (like most of season 5).  We don't know if they plan to up his powers so that he's not limited to the weirwood net, tone it down because magic is boring, or randomly jump back and forth.  We don't even know if they plan to stick to Bran's story or use him fill in the gaps on the backstory they never covered.

In the books, Bran's story is intricately tied to Jon and Theon, and I think the reason his chapters cut off halfway through ADWD (and the reason we have no sample chapters for him) is that we'll get at least one chapter (preferably more) taking place before the climax of ADWD.  Chapters that will fundamentally change the way we view Jon and Theon's stories and shape the way they develop.  The show has already missed this opportunity. 

I think we'll learn a little history in season 6 and see Bran's power expand, and its likely that he'll play a part in Jon's resurrection.  I think Bran "meeting" the Night's King was nothing more than a jump scare but we might learn more of them.

If I watch season 6, what I'll be looking for is the relationship between Bran and BR and the way BR is depicted.  If they plan to stay faithful in any way to ASOIAF the character and motivations of BR will be far more important than the plot points they will inevitably butcher.

Whew!!!  Got through that whole thing without R&R'ing at all, I'm so proud of myself. :D

I definitely think they will have some licenses with Bran's story like playing a lot with the visions and some of these visions may not appear in the book,  because have been explained with other subtle hints, so it will be a device for the story of season 6.

However, Im concerned about two things:

-We know Bran will be (likely) outside the cave and possibily with Meera. It can be a vision but I don't think so (Hope not).

-We know Bran is going to merge somehow with the roots.

If Bran merges first and then goes out of the cave, it will be a big spoiler, because it would mean they are rushing the story. Maybe Book Bran won't leave, but I will seriously doubt it if it happens in the show. Apart from that, if they make him stay so close with the roots and then he leaves it will be a shocking moment. So, it's a strong possibility.

The other interpretation is that Bran never leaves the cave in the show in Season 6 (and possibly not in the books, at least in a short time). So what we are seeing about Bran riding a horse is another vision or maybe he is in the cave. It would be strange, though. But, we know Meera appears (probably outside the cave) in peril, and also that she is in the making of...... apparently alone...so why would she be alone? Because Bran is in the caves. I'd prefer the former explanation, though

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Whathever it happens.....as @evita mgfs pointed out...is that he will  have a strong power. What if the roots are only a device in itself? In the books he has just had some visions but we don't know if he is in the process of becoming one of the creatures that he meets inside the cave.

It may be a training devide, as well. The writers stated that they avoided Bran's storyline in S5, necause he was training off-screen. So he must be more trained than in the books at this moment.

Moreover, George said that the five year gap would have worked well for the kids (Bran and Arya) because of their training. So Bran is training for something, and the first thing could be Jon, then...other important things.

And about Ghost....I don't know, but he appearing in the trailer makes me thinh he will have a greater importance (well, greater than in S5) so...why couldn't he be in contact with Bran as well?

We have analysed the books (well, not me but the other contributors from this thread and the sister thread) and there are possibly countless references of Bran's presence in all the books, not only in Dance, but before, which is interesting if it's true.

I am of the opinion that Bran's importance is not inside that cave, but who knows if he will stay there a lot of time, or even always, or die before. (Just think the latter won't because he is one of the main characters in the books and will be one of the main ones in the show the next seasons)

Edited by Meera of Tarth

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4 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Whathever it happens.....as @evita mgfs pointed out...is that he will  have a strong power. What if the roots are only a device in itself? In the books he has just had some visions but we don't know if he is in the process of becoming one of the creatures that he meets inside the cave.

It may be a training devide, as well.

And about Ghost....I don't know, but he appearing in the trailer makes me thinh he will have a greater importance (well, greater than in S5) so...why couldn't he be in contact with Bran as well?

Ghost is very, very, very angry in the clip - his legs are braced dramatically, his eye glowing red, slavering with teeth showing.

Now, is Ghost guarding Jon's body?

Or, is Jon warged in Ghost and Ghost is protecting Jon while Jon is raging against the men who betrayed him?

I think when those men break through the door, Ghost is going to take down Thorne and tear out his neck.

If Jon is in Ghost, then Ghost will probably spare the lad who betrayed him because that is the Stark thing to do!

Yes - I do think that Bran will connect with Jon via Ghost.

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1 minute ago, evita mgfs said:

Ghost is very, very, very angry in the clip - his legs are braced dramatically, his eye glowing red, slavering with teeth showing.

Now, is Ghost guarding Jon's body?

Or, is Jon warged in Ghost and Ghost is protecting Jon while Jon is raging against the men who betrayed him?

I think when those men break through the door, Ghost is going to take down Thorne and tear out his neck.

If Jon is in Ghost, then Ghost will probably spare the lad who betrayed him because that is the Stark thing to do!

Yes - I do think that Bran will connect with Jon via Ghost.

Which would make an interesting beginning for the revived Jon "Snow", a killer of the ones who killed him. Darker.

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12 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Which would make an interesting beginning for the revived Jon "Snow", a killer of the ones who killed him. Darker.

Well, the wolf blood comingled with dragon blood creates a beast Jon the warg may not be able to control - at first!

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I don't see Bran leaving that cave physically for quite some time, in the books anyway.  If Bran=Fenrir, and I believe he does, Bran "breaking his bonds" will be the event that ushers in the Ragnarok in earnest.  Whatever that might mean in ASOIAF (warging an ice dragon, perhaps) its likely to coincide closely with Jon's (=Surtr the Black) resurrection and the collapse of the Wall (=Bifrost Bridge).  In other words, it will be the most important thing that happens in ASOIAF. 

But in the show, honestly, who knows?  I think the Battle of the Bastards is entirely the work of D&D so all of season 6 is suspect.  Jon certainly will be leading an army to Winterfell (hopefully by the end of TWOW) but it won't be Wildlings and it won't be the Boltons he's attacking (I think).

The only thing we know for sure about season 6 is there will be more Spooky-Scary-Skeletons.  For-sure.

Edited by thehandwipes

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42 minutes ago, evita mgfs said:

Ghost is very, very, very angry in the clip - his legs are braced dramatically, his eye glowing red, slavering with teeth showing.

Now, is Ghost guarding Jon's body?

Or, is Jon warged in Ghost and Ghost is protecting Jon while Jon is raging against the men who betrayed him?

I think when those men break through the door, Ghost is going to take down Thorne OllyOllyOllyOllyOlly and tear out his neck!!!

If Jon is in Ghost, then Ghost will probably spare the lad who betrayed him because that is the Stark thing to do!

Yes - I do think that Bran will connect with Jon via Ghost.

Its the only thing I want out of season 6!!!

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46 minutes ago, evita mgfs said:

If Jon is in Ghost, then Ghost will probably spare the lad who betrayed him because that is the Stark thing to do!

But I was actually hoping Ghost would kill Olly?

1 minute ago, thehandwipes said:

Its the only thing I want out of season 6!!!

You :ninja: me

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3 minutes ago, thehandwipes said:

Its the only thing I want out of season 6!!!

 

2 minutes ago, Tijgy said:

But I was actually hoping Ghost would kill Olly?

You :ninja: me

BUT YOU KNOW HOW THOSE STARKS ARE!  Jon/Ghost will spare Olly - I did not say I liked the idea!

However, as I said above, the angry wolf and fiery dragon in Jon will over ride the Stark sensibilities.  So, Ghost will attack Thorne first, then OLLY.

"Et tu Brute" indeed!

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19 minutes ago, thehandwipes said:

I don't see Bran leaving that cave physically for quite some time, in the books anyway.  If Bran=Fenrir, and I believe he does, Bran "breaking his bonds" will be the event that ushers in the Ragnarok in earnest.  Whatever that might mean in ASOIAF (warging an ice dragon, perhaps) its likely to coincide closely with Jon's (=Surtr the Black) resurrection and the collapse of the Wall (=Bifrost Bridge).  In other words, it will be the most important thing that happens in ASOIAF. 

But in the show, honestly, who knows?  I think the Battle of the Bastards is entirely the work of D&D so all of season 6 is suspect.  Jon certainly will be leading an army to Winterfell (hopefully by the end of TWOW) but it won't be Wildlings and it won't be the Boltons he's attacking (I think).

The only thing we know for sure about season 6 is there will be more Spooky-Scary-Skeletons.  For-sure.

What you say is so interesting.

I am very interested in Northern mythology since I began watching Vikings (watched until s2 so please no spoilers :P).

Do you know any website or  blog where I could learn about Ragnarok?

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1 minute ago, evita mgfs said:

 

BUT YOU KNOW HOW THOSE STARKS ARE!  Jon/Ghost will spare Olly - I did not say I liked the idea!

However, as I said above, the angry wolf and fiery dragon in Jon will over ride the Stark sensibilities.  So, Ghost will attack Thorne first, then OLLY.

"Et tu Brute" indeed!

Well, we have two examples of the afterlife in ASOIAF that don't bode well for Jon's kind and forgiving nature.  Warging into Ghost will likely leave him more wolflike (per Varamyr's prologue) and resurrection (via R'hllor) probably won't help his personality either.

Varamyr's prologue was certainly there to set up a second life for Jon inside of Ghost.  And, I think, Lady Stoneheart was likely included so that Jon's resurrection and change wouldn't come across as a plot contrivance with no set-up. 

Jon is not the hero to save the world, I don't think.

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8 minutes ago, thehandwipes said:

Well, we have two examples of the afterlife in ASOIAF that don't bode well for Jon's kind and forgiving nature.  Warging into Ghost will likely leave him more wolflike (per Varamyr's prologue) and resurrection (via R'hllor) probably won't help his personality either.

Varamyr's prologue was certainly there to set up a second life for Jon inside of Ghost.  And, I think, Lady Stoneheart was likely included so that Jon's resurrection and change wouldn't come across as a plot contrivance with no set-up. 

Jon is not the hero to save the world, I don't think.

He's not?  For real?  Are you jesting?  Who told you?  Jon's not the hero?  [sniff, sniff] :bawl:

Ruined my night you hand wiper!  I wash my hands of you!  :thumbsdown:

Just kidding and being silly and having fun!

I would not mind if Jon got his "mean on"!  And I secretly want him to be reborn as a vampirish UNJon with a burning rage for the injustices suffered upon his family and others.

I am not sure if such will happen, but I can speculate until Martin releases the hungrily awaited TWoW!

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9 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

What you say is so interesting.

I am very interested in Northern mythology since I began watching Vikings (watched until s2 so please no spoilers :P).

Do you know any website or  blog where I could learn about Ragnarok?

Dorian-the-Historian is a good place to start.  Although I disagree with several of his points.  Particularly, the one-to-one analogies.  Although Bran=Fenrir Jaime=Tyr is stone to me, most of the Gods in the myth don't have perfect one-to-one analogies.  And I think that leads him to make several big mistakes like Mance=Egber and Tommen is the PTWP.

Also, all of the threads started by sweetsunray are fantastic.  She seems to reject the Bloodraven=Loki view in favor of Bloodraven=Odin and I think that's a mistake.  My understandin is that Odin/Loki were initially a single God which is why they have so many similarities.  And I think Bloodraven appears and acts much like Odin, but will fulfill the role of Loki in the Ragnarok.  Loki pretending to be Odin if you will, a very Loki thing to do.  But, seriously, just click on any of the links in her signature, they are all fantastic.

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44 minutes ago, thehandwipes said:

I don't see Bran leaving that cave physically for quite some time, in the books anyway.  If Bran=Fenrir, and I believe he does, Bran "breaking his bonds" will be the event that ushers in the Ragnarok in earnest.  Whatever that might mean in ASOIAF (warging an ice dragon, perhaps) its likely to coincide closely with Jon's (=Surtr the Black) resurrection and the collapse of the Wall (=Bifrost Bridge).  In other words, it will be the most important thing that happens in ASOIAF. 

But in the show, honestly, who knows?  I think the Battle of the Bastards is entirely the work of D&D so all of season 6 is suspect.  Jon certainly will be leading an army to Winterfell (hopefully by the end of TWOW) but it won't be Wildlings and it won't be the Boltons he's attacking (I think).

The only thing we know for sure about season 6 is there will be more Spooky-Scary-Skeletons.  For-sure.

Are you a Heretic?  I know they are big on the Scandinavian mythology.

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2 minutes ago, evita mgfs said:

Are you a Heretic?  I know they are big on the Scandinavian mythology.

Heretic in what sense?  I'm atheist in the religious sense, I don't practice enough religion to practice heresy.:)

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5 minutes ago, thehandwipes said:

Dorian-the-Historian is a good place to start.  Although I disagree with several of his points.  Particularly, the one-to-one analogies.  Although Bran=Fenrir Jaime=Tyr is stone to me, most of the Gods in the myth don't have perfect one-to-one analogies.  And I think that leads him to make several big mistakes like Mance=Egber and Tommen is the PTWP.

Also, all of the threads started by sweetsunray are fantastic.  She seems to reject the Bloodraven=Loki view in favor of Bloodraven=Odin and I think that's a mistake.  My understandin is that Odin/Loki were initially a single God which is why they have so many similarities.  And I think Bloodraven appears and acts much like Odin, but will fulfill the role of Loki in the Ragnarok.  Loki pretending to be Odin if you will, a very Loki thing to do.  But, seriously, just click on any of the links in her signature, they are all fantastic.

Here?  The Chthonic Cycle - Part 1-4 - The Persephone, Hades, Demeter and Isis of Winterfell

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