The Wiseman´s Fear VI (Spoilers and discussion)

[FantasyProspector]

Really wish the e-book price would drop on this... still at $15 :frown5:

~ The Fantasy Prospector

[Ockain]

Hello, first time long time.

i was reading through the theories here and i didn't see anyone make some of these connections.

In relation to Gaston de Foix's comments regarding the lackless door, i think your taking it too literally. The box Meluan shows Kvothe at p.1000 is metaphorically the lackless door.

"One of them a ring unworn" refers to her 'key' she carries around her neck. Though they do not describe the key around her neck, they describe the lock as "not keyhole shaped, but a simple circle instead.

"One a word that is forsworn" not too sure but 'forsworn' can mean falsely swearing. So if kvothe swore an oath, say on his 'left hand', he may have to swear an oaty falsely to achieve this portion of the riddle, coming round to the theories about his crippled hand.

The next 3 look good until "One a door that holds the flood" this is where i think i have a decent idea. This would be the wood box at p.1000 that has the carvings in it. I believe this box is made from the tree that holds the Cthaeh. Kvothe says it looks familiar, smells of lemon and might be spicewood. On p.745 when he speaks to the Cthaeh he describes smelling spice, leather, and lemon. If it can hold the Cthaeh it must be able to hold the "flood", which i think is metaphorical for the Fae Realm/Moon. The box is 3000 years, which would put it at the age of the split between the mortal/fae realms, and hold the small iron box which captured the moon. The "flood" could mean the Fae realm flooding back and merging with the mortal realm, once the moon is free of the iron box, hence the scraelings and demons coming over the mountain in NOTW.

Over 3000 years, things get muddled, so i am surprised i didnt see anyone make the connection that "Jax" and "Iax" are closely related to Haliax. I remember somewhere in WMF they saying the namer that split the realm into mortal/fae was behind the doors of stone. So Haliax, who is immortal could live in the Fae realm ( doors of stone = waystones) and comes over into the mortal realm whenever he wants to, Felurian said there are many ways to go through if you know how. Who better than Haliax who created the Fae realm.

And finally about Auri. She has to be the physical manifestation of the moon. In Hespe's story nowhere does it say that the female manifestation of the moon went back into the sky. Ludis is her name, but we never found out Auri's real name, that is just what Kvothe named her. So when he frees the moon in tge box it will free Auri.

Please discuss

[DWDF]

Hello,

Nice to see so many theories being discussed on here.

Ockain - I don't think Haliax created the Fae realm because Bast says that Lanre (before he became Haliax) became corrupt/crazy/evil after visiting the Ctaeth, which is in the Fae. I guess the Ctaeth could've existed in the original world but it doesn't feel right to me.

If Auri was the moon, could she be in human form and in the sky at the same time? If so, then maybe Denna is the wind?

My favourite guess is that when Lanre died, Lyra used dark powers to revive him and somehow a piece of Encanis (who was only banished to the Outer Dark or what not, instead of killed as it says/hints at in Trapis' story) latched onto his soul. And now Haliax is trying to find something to free his master from his prison. Really farfetched I know, but fun to think things up. :)

[SkyPirateJack]

Ockain - I don't think Haliax created the Fae realm because Bast says that Lanre (before he became Haliax) became corrupt/crazy/evil after visiting the Ctaeth, which is in the Fae. I guess the Ctaeth could've existed in the original world but it doesn't feel right to me.

That's from the same interlude in WMF where Bast also says that Iax spoke to the Cthaeh before he stole the moon. Jax/Iax is the one who created the Fae, but I feel like I read elsewhere that the Cthaeh been around longer than that.

The name Haliax could come from any number of sources "hale" meaning "breath" or "pull, summon, or draw from one condition to another". I believe Lanre spoke to Iax some time after the Cthaeh and had his name changed, giving him power. In a sense he is "changed by Iax" or the "breath of Iax". But that gets thrown out the window with the whole Alaxel thing.

[DWDF]

Ohhhh, that stands to reason. I need to skim over the books to make the connections but I like where you're headed with the Iax to Haliax thing.

As for the Chandrian, they fear three things right?

The Amyr -- human Amyr are namers? fae Amyr are shapers? They fear them because they know the rituals to summon Tehlu and his angels?

"The Singers" -- Edema Ruh? Minstrels in general? Obviously they fear anyone knowing too much about them, so I'm guessing that has to do with knowing their true names. (Haliax schooling Cinder by using his name.)

The Sithe -- Guardians of the Ctaeth. I'm guessing since they are guarding the "most dangerous thing in the world" they are the original Amyr or something.

Got a feeling book 3 is going to raise more questions than it answers and we'll be doing this for another few years.

[Nisheeth]

"The Singers" -- Edema Ruh? Minstrels in general? Obviously they fear anyone knowing too much about them, so I'm guessing that has to do with knowing their true names. (Haliax schooling Cinder by using his name.)

I don't think he is referring to any specific group. Singer's wasn't capitalized when Haliax referred to them. He probably is referring to simple singers who sing about them

[Red Wedding]

Now that I've finished my reread of WMF, a few things:

1) Did I understand it correctly that the Adem people are strongly connected to the Fae realm? Their sky changed, does this mean they once belonged into the Fae realm?

2) Furthermore, Aethe possessed a bow of horn, just as the Sithe do. So the founder of the first Adem school was a member of the Sithe? (they have similar names after all)

Or is this whole story about Aethe and Rethe the same story that Felurian told? Aethe therefore symbolizing the Namers and Rethe the Shapers, thus also their war and argument? Due to Magwyn we know that the Adem know about Names.

2) Coincidence that the Adem word for Chandrian is Rhinta, similar to the Ctaeh flower, called Rhinna?

3) I've noticed that the German translation of the Chandrian poem differs a little bit.

Original:

Grey Dalcenti never speaks.

Pale Alenta brings the blight.

Translation:

Dalcenti stumm und grau und ernst.

Die bleiche Alenta bringt die Plage.

So about Dalcenti it says he is (/wears?) grey, silent and serious/solemn, plus, the translator uses a female article for Alenta.

Well, at least to me it wasn't clear that Alenta is a female Chandrian (if that is true?).

And Dalcenti's German description made me think of an Adem; grey eyes, quiet since they talk with their hands and solemn since they don't use facial expression. Though, little far stretched I must admit.

[jumbles]

1) Did I understand it correctly that the Adem people are strongly connected to the Fae realm? Their sky changed, does this mean they once belonged into the Fae realm?

It may just be the theft of the moon that changed the sky.

2) Furthermore, Aethe possessed a bow of horn, just as the Sithe do.

I didn't notice that before. Thanks for pointing it out.

2) Coincidence that the Adem word for Chandrian is Rhinta, similar to the Ctaeh flower, called Rhinna?

I don't think it's coincidence. Lanre spoke to the Cthaeh before becoming Haliax. Also of note, the words "Vorfelan Rhinata Morie" are chiseled "above the massive stone doors" of the Archives. Wil says it translates to "The desire for knowledge shapes a man."

3) I've noticed that the German translation of the Chandrian poem differs a little bit.

So about Dalcenti it says he is (/wears?) grey, silent and serious/solemn, plus, the translator uses a female article for Alenta.

Thanks for sharing!

[lanceschaubert]

Sorry for the MASSIVE hiatus, everyone. Life happened.

I'll start my Alchemical reread tomorrow :eek: . I'll try for one post a week, but no guarantees.

Disclaimer first.

(here's this if the link breaks: http://lanceschaubert.org/2012/01/24/kingkiller-alchemy-reread-disclaimers-housekeeping-before-we-start/ )

Much love,

- LtmS

[lanceschaubert]

Okay, first one's up:

Kingkiller Nigreddo: Felling Night

Much love.

[Windmill]

Quick question on the first Rothfuss book:

Is it one where you ought to know relatively early whether it's your style or not? I'm thinking about giving it a try once I finish my next one.

I, personally, pretty much fell in love with it in by about chapter five. So, I want to say yes but at the same time others may not have had the same experience as me. Perhaps others only got joy out of it after a significant portion of the novel. So, basically, I'm telling you literally nothing. Sorry :P

[jumbles]

Quick question on the first Rothfuss book:

Is it one where you ought to know relatively early whether it's your style or not?

My first time reading the book, I thought that it was at best 'OK' until chapter 32, then I loved it.

[lanceschaubert]

Quick question on the first Rothfuss book:

Is it one where you ought to know relatively early whether it's your style or not? I'm thinking about giving it a try once I finish my next one.

Wasn't sold until chapter seven, then I was as hooked as a fish who's mouth was sympathetically pierced by the energy from a thrown spear.

And that's about as superlative and honest as I can get about that.

[lanceschaubert]

My Alchemy read through isn't the place for this, so I'll post it here:

One of my friends in noting Rothfuss' aversion to the government and religious systems noted the connection between the Knight's Templar and the Amyr.

His theory?

The Chandrian are the good guys, the Amyr the bad. That would mean the Chandrian got there to chase away the Amyr, who killed Kvothe's parents.

Thoughts?

[TerraPrime]

The early chapters came across as a huge set up to me, and I was not really terribly engaged until Kvothe got to the University. But it was entertaining enough and there're enough "hmm... I wonder what the deal is with THAT?" that I kept to it.

[Tears of Lys]

@lanceschaubert: I've definitely had some thoughts about that myself. But from what's said to young Kvothe by Cinder and to Cinder by Haliax, I doubt that's the case. The people around Kvothe's parents' campfire definitely weren't intending him well.

As for how long did it take me to get into the story, I wouldn't say I was immediately captured by it. It took a while to figure out that the innkeeper was the main character! For me, it took Abenthy's entry into the story for my interest to be piqued. Loved Bast, of course, right from the start.

[lanceschaubert]

@lanceschaubert: I've definitely had some thoughts about that myself. But from what's said to young Kvothe by Cinder and to Cinder by Haliax, I doubt that's the case. The people around Kvothe's parents' campfire definitely weren't intending him well.

As for how long did it take me to get into the story, I wouldn't say I was immediately captured by it. It took a while to figure out that the innkeeper was the main character! For me, it took Abenthy's entry into the story for my interest to be piqued. Loved Bast, of course, right from the start.

Yeah, I suppose that's true and have thought through those objections. Still curious...

That's true, Abenthy's the man. I wish we had more of his story.

[Jussi]

Martin talks about TWMF:

Any of those books would be worthy nominees, but none of them were the best epic fantasy I read last year. For my money, that has to be THE WISE MAN'S FEAR, by Patrick Rothfuss.

WMF is the second volume in Rothfuss's Kvothe series, and it took him nearly as long to write it as I took for A DANCE WITH DRAGONS (hey, I'm glad it did, he drew some of the fire). But it was worth the wait. I gulped it down in a day, staying up almost to dawn reading, and I am already itching for the next one. He's bloody good, this Rothfuss guy. THE WISE MAN"S FEAR should rightly contend not only for the Hugo, but also for the World Fantasy Award.

[SkyPirateJack]

I'm doing a reread of WMF and I came across something I feel like I should have caught long before now. Bear with me if someone has said this before.

The flits that Kvothe uses to test the poison are also known as sipquicks, but it's what Stapes calls them that set my mind turning. Calanthis. Calanthis is the royal family of Vint. I think Kvothe killed the actual King of Vint and the Penitent King is Alveron. Someone else mentioned further back that the color of the soldiers' uniforms in the present matches those of the Maer.

On my first read of NotW I thought the hints and foreshadowing were obvious. By WMF, I realized I hadn't found half as many things as there really were. Now, I'm convinced that there's probably a code hidden in Denna's letter that says "I'm Patrick Rothfuss and I'm smarter than you. Also, the Game." I'm really starting to take anything into consideration. I feel like Rothfuss has laid out every key to every door we know of.

On a related note, how many things has Auri given Kvothe? Could they be the keys to the very unconventionally shaped locks on the four-plate door? I know the key, coin and candle (another potential reason for no candles in the Archives), but I'm at a loss for a fourth key. The only thing that comes to mind is that the door has no handle, and after a barmaid, two ninjas, and a tenth of the University's best and brightest; kvothe might actually try his candle...

[Nisheeth]

@SkyPirateJack:

Ah! Great find about that.

Now, I'm convinced that there's probably a code hidden in Denna's letter

Want a list of all the anagram's made by the Not-Supposed-to-be-Capitalized letters?

I have that as a word here, but I haven't bothered to look through the thousands of pages.

And can we add an attachment in a post?