Tyrion Appreciation Thread

[1234567]

Tyrion also knows more about Dragons than anyone else it seems. A very useful skill and one that may prove invaluable by the time a certain young lady stops playing around with the Crones at Vaes Dothrak. :)

[LadyoftheNorth72]

Despite some similarities in Tyrion's and Tywin's character, there is one instance in one of the 5 books where Tywin specifically states to Tyrion "you are not my son".... but I can't remember which book

Tywin also explicitly says to Jaime "you are not my son" in ASOS when Jaime refuses to leave the KG to be heir to Casterly Rock, so I don't think we can or should read too much into Tywin's dying words about Tyrion. Even if Tywin had suspicions about Tyrion, they were obviously never even sufficient for Tywin to convince himself that Tyrion was not his.

[Evamitchelle]

Ned also said to Bran "You are not my son. You are a squirrel" (may be paraphrasing here), I wouldn't read too much into Tywin's final words.

[Yellow Dog]

Bless you for this thread, eyeheart.

But I don't recall Tyrion wanting to rape his sister - he merely thinks it's unfair that she opens her legs for one brother but not the other.

I also don't recall Tyrion raping anyone unless you count the coerced gang rape of Tysha. As far as I can tell, since then the only sex Tyrion has had is with whores. After a whore accepts payment and before a whore says "stop," it's never rape.

Contrary to being a rapist, Tyrion rescued Sansa from gang rape.

[Yellow Dog]

REALLY, that cruel and heartless rape of Sansa was exacty what was to be expected of that despiceable whoremonger. Why should he leave her alone in bed, after all she was his wife, he just HAD to bang her.

Given the Westerosi customs and the general respect for women EVERY other man would have read bedtime stories to her - but not Tyrion, the merciless rapist.

Dead-on perfect. Thank you.

[eyeheartsansa]

Glad you're enjoying it Yellow Dog.. Tyrion has passing thoughts, especially in ADWD about doing terrible things to his sister. My opinion is that this, while still pretty unhealthy and screwed up, has been blown out of proportion a bit especially by Team Cersei (ducking for cover!!). There was a big discussion the Tyrion/rapist thread which has since been closed, over whether the Tysha incident can be considered rape. The consensus was that yes, it was pretty much rape, with varying degrees of sympahty/leniancy based on the circumstances.

[1234567]

Bless you for this thread, eyeheart.

But I don't recall Tyrion wanting to rape his sister - he merely thinks it's unfair that she opens her legs for one brother but not the other.

Have you read ADWD?

I also don't recall Tyrion raping anyone unless you count the coerced gang rape of Tysha. As far as I can tell, since then the only sex Tyrion has had is with whores. After a whore accepts payment and before a whore says "stop," it's never rape.

Yep I'd count the rape of Tysha. It wasn't a gun to his head situation.

As for not raping a whore....have you read ADWD?

Contrary to being a rapist, Tyrion rescued Sansa from gang rape.

Sandor Clegane rescued her from a situation where another woman was gang raped. Tyrion resuced her when Joff had her stripped and beaten, but she wasn't in danger of being raped on that occasion. Again the Hound was about to intervene before Tyrion did.

[Yellow Dog]

Back on the topic of Tyrion's positive qualities:

His combination of extreme cynicism and unbelievable naiivete. Cynics, of course, are just frustrated idealists, which is why we - I mean they - are so often disappointed by other human beings.

[ZacharyB]

You know what theory really makes me angry?

The Tyrion Targaryen theory.

Seriously, if you had to choose any of the bloody Lannister children to be Targaryens, you would choose Jamie and Cersei, not Tyrion, who has been said to be just like Tywin (paraphrased) by many people (including Tyrion's aunt Genna). Jamie and Cersei, on the other hand, are absolutely nothing like Tywin at all. Cersei even has a lot of Aerys's madness in her if you ask me.

I don't think Jamie/Cersei are Aerys's bastards either, but they're far more likely than Tyrion.

[/rant]

EDIT: Before you call me out, dear reader, Cersei/Jamie are somewhat like Tywin sure. But not as much as Tyrion.

[Francis Buck]

I guess I'm one of the only people that actually enjoyed Tyrion's chapters in ADwD. Sure, they dragged a little bit, but I thought his chapters dragged a bit in ASoS as well. To me, his story was one of the most interesting, as he had gone through the largest change since the last book. And I actually like the way his personality is shifting (I mean, it sucks in one regard because he was one of the few debatably "good guys", but at the same time I admire the twist for its literary value, and because I think it will ultimately make him an even more interesting character).

[Errant Bard]

I guess I'm one of the only people that actually enjoyed Tyrion's chapters in ADwD.

Oh, enjoying chapters has nothing to do with whether the PoV is a dick or not. Theon chapters are nice, for example. (also, Tyrion has been a jerk since forever, anyway)

[Francis Buck]

Oh, enjoying chapters has nothing to do with whether the PoV is a dick or not. Theon chapters are nice, for example. (also, Tyrion has been a jerk since forever, anyway)

I know, but a lot of people seemed to think his chapters were actually boring, while for me his chapters were probably the most interesting in the book, along with Theon and the few times that Arya pops up.

[1234567]

I guess I'm one of the only people that actually enjoyed Tyrion's chapters in ADwD. Sure, they dragged a little bit, but I thought his chapters dragged a bit in ASoS as well. To me, his story was one of the most interesting, as he had gone through the largest change since the last book. And I actually like the way his personality is shifting (I mean, it sucks in one regard because he was one of the few debatably "good guys", but at the same time I admire the twist for its literary value, and because I think it will ultimately make him an even more interesting character).

:agree:

Hey he's gone from my favourite characters to one I now quite dislike and pity immensely, but I still enjoy his chapters and actually really liked his ADWD ones, even if some bits of them made me dislike him even more!

Ironically some of the characters I really like, do not always have the most interesting or gripping POVs while others that I can't stand, like Cersei, have some brilliant chapters.

[ghost the direwolf]

Tyrion is very clever , I enjoy his chapters most in the seires. I like the fact that compaire to ned he did listen to varyswhile not trusting him. he is the detective in the book and has got a lot of knowledge, and he knows who to take has friend ( Jon, Eagon, varys and now i am sure jorah).

[JKeats]

For all the hate Tyrion gets on these boards, I find it amusing that he is still either the first or second most beloved character in the series.

That's not some kind of debating trump card of course. The anti-Tyrion party has all sorts of moral objections to him, which are not going to be swayed by appeals to majority sentiment. Still, it's encouraging that most fans recognize him as the decent fellow he is. He's got a good head and a good heart, and if GRRM is felling kindly, maybe Tyrion will find some measure of happiness all the way at the end of the final book.

[Stannis the Great]

I had a lot of sympathy for Tyrion in the earlier novels. He was constantly being prejudiced against, his work and contribution as acting Hand was largely unrecognised and he actually seemed to be a genuinely nice person but also selfish, stubborn and at times cruel. His marriage with Sansa was cold probably because he couldn't put himself in Sansa's shoes (although Sansa failed to do the same I think it's a bit harsh for a young teenage girl forced into a marriage with the runt of the family that executed her father to be expected to be anything but cold to Tyrion).

Quite a lot of my sympathy for Tyrion disappeared when he murdered Shae although I'm sure he was in an emotionally vulnerable state with Jaime's revelation but he is still responsible for his actions. His murder of his father seemed justified especially because of Tywin's lack of care for the fate of Taesha and the fact that he ordered a gang-rape. His emotional despair made me take his threats of raping and murdering his family members as not totally serious albeit disturbing. Then his POVs in ADWD was him wallowing in self-pity made me lose most of my sympathy towards him, especially his borderline rape of that prostitute.

He's still at heart one of my favourite characters to read because of his quips and witty one-liners but as a person he needs to redeem himself a lot for me to like him again.

[Stannis the Great]

B-but neither did Cersei! Ah, but whore is, as indicated in the Cersei Appreciation Thread, an intensely degrading female specific term. To be applied to the sexual misadventures and misbehavior of women, not men. But not at all sexist.

The word is sexist. Perhaps if a word existed with the same definition that was gender-neutral and someone applied that word to Cersei would that make that someone sexist? Unfortunately no such word exists so we'll have to make do with calling men who 'sleep around' as man-whore or man-slut. Tyrion definitely fits the definition of a slut more than Cersei does.

Regarding the Cersei thread. The word whore nowadays has lost much of its 'shock' for those of us under 20 and is used often in the context of describing someone cheating on their partner. In that context (and in that context alone) Cersei was a whore. Or better yet. Cersei was a -insert hypothetical word encompassing the definition of whore used in the context of cheating on a partner that is gender-neutral -

Context is everything. Remember that before you label everyone as sexist.

[Verboten]

I've found Tyrion to be disturbingg and morbidly fascinating ever since he decides to burn the entire Vale to the ground because Lysa Arryn had him locked in the sky prisons for a few days. That is not a healthy response, no matter how clever and witty you are.

[mediocre cheese]

For all the hate Tyrion gets on these boards, I find it amusing that he is still either the first or second most beloved character in the series.

That's not some kind of debating trump card of course. The anti-Tyrion party has all sorts of moral objections to him, which are not going to be swayed by appeals to majority sentiment. Still, it's encouraging that most fans recognize him as the decent fellow he is. He's got a good head and a good heart, and if GRRM is felling kindly, maybe Tyrion will find some measure of happiness all the way at the end of the final book.

I don't have anything against people liking tyrion. He's a well-written character who is really believable. But lets not pretend the fans recognize he's "a decent fellow with a good heart" these same polls show LF, varys, and Bronn as being popular characters as well. People love tony soprano, gordan gecko, ect. These polls don't ask who has the best heart, or is the most decent. Many of the most popular characters are the least moral. Tyrion is the same way, he has had more povs than any other character, and he gets witty lines so people love him. It has nothing to do with having a good heart, he lost all claim to that after his behavior in selhorys.

[Erinne]

I don't have anything against people liking tyrion. He's a well-written character who is really believable. But lets not pretend the fans recognize he's "a decent fellow with a good heart" these same polls show LF, varys, and Bronn as being popular characters as well. People love tony soprano, gordan gecko, ect. These polls don't ask who has the best heart, or is the most decent. Many of the most popular characters are the least moral. Tyrion is the same way, he has had more povs than any other character, and he gets witty lines so people love him. It has nothing to do with having a good heart, he lost all claim to that after his behavior in selhorys.

I will never cease to be baffled by people who think that in order to like a character, you must believe that their actions are morally justified.