I think Dany will be dead by the end of the story

[The Idiots Lantern]

And he saw the Green Grace's not at all. Point?

He hasn't spent day and night tending to the Green Grace.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

He hasn't spent day and night tending to the Green Grace.

Then he shouldn't be trusting her enough with diplomatic missions.

[Nictarion]

Barristan joined his Kingsguard as The Lord Commander; by definition he submitted to Robert. I know the Barry backstory, thanks. You're not telling me anything new.

Is the oath of the KG to only serve one specific king, or who ever is the current king? Barristan is a KG, I don't see a problem with serving under Robert.

[The Idiots Lantern]

Then he shouldn't be trusting her enough with diplomatic missions.

Why not? Sending the peace activist when you want to avoid war seems logical enough. Who else could he have sent that wouldn't have been returned in pieces?

[mrunderhill]

Is the oath of the KG to only serve one specific king, or who ever is the current king? Barristan is a KG, I don't see a problem with serving under Robert.

Well we don't know the exact wording, but I don't think it is to serve whoever sits on the throne or else Dayen and his brothers would not have given their oath as a reason to not run or submit. They still refer to Robert as the usurper.Barristan by choosing Dany as his rightful queen is basically admitting he was serving usurpers all that time.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Why not? Sending the peace activist when you want to avoid war seems logical enough. Who else could he have sent that wouldn't have been returned in pieces?

And it never occurred to him that the reason she wouldn't be returned in pieces was because she was not actually helping Dany?

Is the oath of the KG to only serve one specific king, or who ever is the current king? Barristan is a KG, I don't see a problem with serving under Robert.

Then by that token Dayne, Hightower and Whent should've capitulated, but they didn't. They viewed Robert as a usurper and, for good or ill, stuck by that to the very end. Unlike Barristan, who goes from being pro-Targaryen to pro-Baratheon (when it means staying alive and in employment) back to pro-Targaryen (when he's sacked).

[The Idiots Lantern]

And it never occurred to him that the reason she wouldn't be returned in pieces was because she was not actually helping Dany?

He's no politician. It's everything he can do to keep her makeshift realm together. This does not mean he's a fool, or blind, or in denial about anything.

Besides, choosing who to send on a diplomatic mission is not quite the same as choosing who to live and die for. Barristan's been right there at Dany's side through just about every problem she's had. Somehow, the idea she may somehow go as mad as her schizophrenic father hasn't crossed his mind. I have to think he, of all people, would recognize those signs if he saw them, and would worry. To himself, if not out loud.

[Nictarion]

Well we don't know the exact wording, but I don't think it is to serve whoever sits on the throne or else Dayen and his brothers would not have given their oath as a reason to not run or submit. They still refer to Robert as the usurper.Barristan by choosing Dany as his rightful queen is basically admitting he was serving usurpers all that time.

Regardless of how any fans feel about him, the name Barristan Selmy commands nothing but respect and praise all throughout Westeros. I think Ned was a pretty good judge of character, and we certainly know that's how he felt about Barristan.

[Nictarion]

He's no politician. It's everything he can do to keep her makeshift realm together. This does not mean he's a fool, or blind, or in denial about anything.

Besides, choosing who to send on a diplomatic mission is not quite the same as choosing who to live and die for. Barristan's been right there at Dany's side through just about every problem she's had. Somehow, the idea she may somehow go as mad as her schizophrenic father hasn't crossed his mind. I have to think he, of all people, would recognize those signs if he saw them, and would worry. To himself, if not out loud.

Exactly.

[mrunderhill]

Regardless of how any fans feel about him, the name Barristan Selmy commands nothing but respect and praise all throughout Westeros. I think Ned was a pretty good judge of character, and we certainly know that's how he felt about Barristan.

Ned was a good bloke, but what makes you think he was a good judge of character? He is the man, who decided to put his trust in Littlefinger.

Though I agree Selmy's reputation is second to none in Westeros and having him on your side will help convince people of your worth. He is a great hero and has deeds to unmatched by anyone alive.

[mrunderhill]

He's no politician. It's everything he can do to keep her makeshift realm together. This does not mean he's a fool, or blind, or in denial about anything.

Besides, choosing who to send on a diplomatic mission is not quite the same as choosing who to live and die for. Barristan's been right there at Dany's side through just about every problem she's had. Somehow, the idea she may somehow go as mad as her schizophrenic father hasn't crossed his mind. I have to think he, of all people, would recognize those signs if he saw them, and would worry. To himself, if not out loud.

Yes and if he admits that where does it leave him? An old man serving another crazy monarch to keep his honour. His self respect is dependent on viewing Dany as the great and rightful queen whether she is or is not.

[Nictarion]

Yes and if he admits that where does it leave him? An old man serving another crazy monarch to keep his honour. His self respect is dependent on viewing Dany as the great and rightful queen whether she is or is not.

You are missing the point, you cant stop yourself having certain thoughts pop in your head. Barristan never has said thoughts.

[The Idiots Lantern]

Then by that token Dayne, Hightower and Whent should've capitulated, but they didn't. They viewed Robert as a usurper and, for good or ill, stuck by that to the very end.

They were also extremely close to Rheagar, who was brutally murdered by Robert. Their loyalty might be less dogmatical and more personal. They'd never serve the man who'd killed their friend.

Unlike Barristan, who goes from being pro-Targaryen to pro-Baratheon (when it means staying alive and in employment) back to pro-Targaryen (when he's sacked).

Barristan is a human being who is trying to do the right thing. When Robert becomes king, then he honors his vows to protect that king. When that king's "son" casts him aside, he goes looking for the last of of the deposed kings line, all so he can count his vows fulfilled and his honor intact.

I would have been curious to hear his point of view on Viserys, if he'd still been alive. He'd have recognized the Mad King in that one, probably. Yet Danaerys reminds him of Rheagar...

[Nictarion]

They were also extremely close to Rheagar, who was brutally murdered by Robert. Their loyalty might be less dogmatical and more personal. They'd never serve the man who'd killed their friend.

Barristan is a human being who is trying to do the right thing. When Robert becomes king, then he honors his vows to protect that king. When that king's "son" casts him aside, he goes looking for the last of of the deposed kings line, all so he can count his vows fulfilled and his honor intact.

I would have been curious to hear his point of view on Viserys, if he'd still been alive. He'd have recognized the Mad King in that one, probably. Yet Danaerys reminds him of Rheagar...

He stated that he knew Viserys was not right as a child.

[The Idiots Lantern]

Yes and if he admits that where does it leave him? An old man serving another crazy monarch to keep his honour. His self respect is dependent on viewing Dany as the great and rightful queen whether she is or is not.

Actually his self-respect would be dependent on him viewing his vows as full filled and his honor intact, regardless of what Danaerys is like as a queen or ruler. He's served bad kings before, sadly and unhappily, but loyally.

[Nictarion]

Actually his self-respect would be dependent on him viewing his vows as full filled and his honor intact, regardless of what Danaerys is like as a queen or ruler. He's served bad kings before, sadly and unhappily, but loyally.

Good point.

[mrunderhill]

Actually his self-respect would be dependent on him viewing his vows as full filled and his honor intact, regardless of what Danaerys is like as a queen or ruler. He's served bad kings before, sadly and unhappily, but loyally.

No, but he is trying to redeem that by finally serving a Queen he thinks is good. The way he sees his life is dependent on finally serving a great queen. He even tells Dany that he hid his name to see if she was a Queen worth serving.

[The Idiots Lantern]

He stated that he knew Viserys was not right as a child.

This is evidence that he's a good judge of character.

[mrunderhill]

This is evidence that he's a good judge of character.

This seems like hindsight being 20/20. Dany herself thinks Viserys truly lost it when he was forced to sell her mother's crown. Again it seems like a convenient excuse from Selmy as why he did not go to protect Viserys like he should have done.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

He's no politician. It's everything he can do to keep her makeshift realm together. This does not mean he's a fool, or blind, or in denial about anything.

Besides, choosing who to send on a diplomatic mission is not quite the same as choosing who to live and die for. Barristan's been right there at Dany's side through just about every problem she's had. Somehow, the idea she may somehow go as mad as her schizophrenic father hasn't crossed his mind. I have to think he, of all people, would recognize those signs if he saw them, and would worry. To himself, if not out loud.

And like I said, it's funny that Barristan claims to have seen madness in Viserys, but not in Joffrey, even though Joffrey's was most certainly more pronounced (I can't see Viserys gutting a cat as a small child). I'm saying that when you've thrown your lot in with someone as completely as Barristan has with Dany, you're going to overlook a lot — even in your own mind.

He stated that he knew Viserys was not right as a child.

With the benefit of hindsight, knowing how he turned out. How did he "know" this about Viserys, but not Joffrey?