Casting the Movie Continued

[Maester Yobjascz]

Tysha -

I'm glad you agree... however, Brandon may need to be older than 20, per the discussion I posted just above... depending on how we want to handle Benjen, Brandon may need to be older than 20. Hugh Jackman could work as an *older* Brandon, but I otherwise agree that he's pushing the age limit... moreover, I kind of feel like he's wasted on the role. He's too good an actor for that small a role.

As for Benjen, he needs to look younger than Eddard. Livingston does this. Jackman... not so much. As for flashbacks, the one we're discussing is the Harrenhall tournament. It's mentioned from time to time, but in the greatest detail as a story told by Meera and Jojen Reed to Bran. I think it'd be best to do it as a story told, fading to live-action 'flashback'... though it could be kept in story form only (though I think that you'll lose the modern audience's short-lived attention).

[Darcia]

Third, Lyanna is 16 at her death... We can either hold to that, or, like Benjen, bump her up to match (depending on the approach taken). If Benjen is in his 20's at Harrenhall, Lyanna would be the same (say ~23... she would die at ~25). Once again, this has near-zero impact on the story, so I have no problems doing it.

Finally, as there's enough space in the ages between Lyanna, Benjen, and Eddard, you could bump the younger ones up without having to change Eddard's age. He'd be 25 at Harrenhall, and near 40 at AGoT. Total shift = 5 years.

Do you really think it a good idea to change Lyanna's age, when she dies from 16 to 25? Putting on a few years is fine but that is a big difference. Lyanna is unwed when Rhaegar takes her. Why would she be unmarried when she was betrothed to Robert from a young age? For Lyanna to be a maid at 25 or even 23 would not make sense in the world they live in.

If Ned was older, then Brandon would need to be older, and if Brandon was older why wouldn't he have married Cat already?

Most of the characters are very young, but that is how the story is written. They live a world where people get married very young and are considered old at 40. Plus if we make the Starks older then Jamie and co would need to be older too. Jensen and Tricia look the right age now, they will look too young.

As for needing a young Benjen, the only flashback he appears in is Meera's story, which is told to a child with animals representing the people. It could be a cartoon, or with puppets, or even people in animal suits.

[Lightsnake]

Oh, Jackman looks younger than Davenport or Day-Lewis....just shave Jackman and problem solved

[Maester Yobjascz]

Darcia -

I agree with you that aging Lyanna up to 25 is too much. In that previous post, I was simply trying to point out the difficulties with casting. While I think she'll need to be a bit older than 16 (perhaps closer to 18-19), 25 is too old.

Given the constraints that follow, Benjen would have to be younger... though he wouldn't have to be *much* younger. So, it *might* be possible to have a single actor play both. This is Ron Livingston two years ago... A little makeup to cover what stubble he's got, and his cheeks are still chubby enough to pass for a late teen in a quick camera pass... so long as the camera doesn't linger on him, he should be okay... and given the scene, I think that would be the case.

The alternative would be to cast a 'young' Benjen Stark. If that's the choice, might I suggest Skandar Keynes as a young Ron Livingston... the likeness is somewhat uncanny. Keynes really does look like a young Livingston. He's about the right age (15) to play the young Wolf in the Harrenhall flashback, and he looks like Benjen. Given how close a match these two are, I think this is the better approach...

And Darcia, while the story is being told to a child (Bran), it's also being told to the audience, which, given the ASOIAF content, is (hopefully) not comprised of children. I think the actual actors, combined with the Reed's voice-over tale narration, would yield a very touching and compelling rendition of the story.

[Darcia]

I don't think Ron could ever pass for a teen, and he doesn't look like Benjen. Benjen is described as sharp featured and gaunt. My suggestion would be Lee Ingleby, who is about 30 and an amazing actor. In was in Master and Commander, the guy that killed himself, and is Stan in the Harry Potter movies, and was recently Mole in Wind in the Willows - that's range!

[Maester Yobjascz]

Darcia, I tend to agree that Ron Livingston as a teen isn't ideal... which is why I'd prefer Skandar Keynes to play a 'young' Benjen. I think Livingston would work well as Benjen...

As for Lee Ingleby, he is certainly sharp featured and gaunt, but he looks nothing like the other Starks (currently as Cranston and Davenport, with a possible Jackman). That's the problem. Livingston isn't gaunt, but he looks like a Stark, he's the right age range, and he could do the role well...

[Darcia]

Lee looks enough like Jack to me. And anyway Benjen has been living a hard life at the Wall, Ron looks too healthy.

[Lightsnake]

Remind why we need young versions of the characters?

[Blah]

Another suggestion: Melinda Clarke as Melisandre. A great actress, very talented at dark/twisted characters. And much better than who we've currently got cast: Mitzi Martin, an actress whose biggest roles seem to be in 'Joe Dirt' and 'Dude, Where's My Car'.

Oh damn! Melinda Clarke as Melisandre is freaking inspired! She's perfect for that role.

[Shadow Cat]

Lyanna was 16 at her death, but only about 14 at Harrenhall where most of her action takes place. Also, when she is first introduced Ned remembers her as a "child-woman" of surpassing loveliness at her death. She should look young as in on the verge of womanhood or the context of the story is lost. She also needs to be at least androgynous enough in build to be a reasonable contender for the Knight of the Laughing Tree. A second actor to play 12-13 year old Benjen definitely a better way to go as he and Howland Reed being other leading contenders for Knight of the Laughing Tree should be of similar stature.

[Blah]

If Lyanna needs to be younger how about Evan Rachel Wood? She's a good actress and definitely has the spunk that Lyanna had

[Maester Yobjascz]

Ok... a few points:

- Lee Ingleby doesn't look like any of the Starks... hard living won't change that.

- Lightsnake - Go back and reread that long post of mine on the previous page describing the Stark ages. It explains that we need a younger Benjen if we want to keep the ages of the Starks close to the ages described in the books. The other roles are still old enough that the 'regular' actors will be able to play them in the flashback... but in the flashback, Benjen is too young (~15) to be played by any actor able to appear in his early 30's by AGoT.

And finally, I agree that Rachel Evan Wood is a good choice for Lyanna Stark.

[Lightsnake]

What? Why do we even need a flashback, now?

[Maester Yobjascz]

If you've got a better suggestion for how to handle the Harrenhal tourney story that the Reeds tell Bran, please share.

I think there are a couple of options...

- Have the audience sit and watch Bran sit and listen to Meera and Jojen tell a story

- Have the Reeds narrate the story while a 'flashback' of the story plays out. This flashback could either be: animation, live action, or some other form.

If you've got another suggestion, please share it with the group. Of these options, I think a live action flashback with the actual actors, with the Reeds' voices narrating the text of the story, would be the way to go.

[Lightsnake]

Is it a complete necessity, though? Do we need to cast actors just to conform to that?

[Lord Mord]

That's sort of the problem with casting a movie that hasn't been written and has no director or producer. Which story are you really telling? What is the perspective on that story? How large is the part, considering how much has been cut to make an actual motion picture?

I didn't get an answer before, either. Has Loras been cast? I know this guy ... He's not Hollywood, but he's beautiful and he's got considerable talent and moxie.

Okay, I don't know, maybe wrong thread. Just every time casting comes up, I think how dead on he'd be for the part.

[Lightsnake]

I think we got Henry Cavill as Loras...

[Tysha]

Lee Ingleby is a great suggestion! He looks a hell of a lot more like Jack Davenport than Ron Livingston does. Look:

Jack

Lee

Ron

He also looks markedly like the younger brother of Jack Davenport whereas with Ron Livingston it's a bit iffy - possibly because he's actually five years older than Jack! Ingleby could pass for a teenager as well, so no need to cast a younger actor.

Evan Rachel Wood definitely works for me as Lyanna.

But we need a younger Brandon - there's no way Hugh Jackman could pass for 20 or even 25, and Brandon is such a small role we don't need someone that famous there. Hmm. Possibly Alex O'Loughlin or JJ Feild?

Also, all of this re-casting means that Jonathan Bailey is now my first choice for Jon Snow. I'm sorry Matt!

That link is his biography on the Beautiful Thing website and there's a load of really nice production shots of the show here.

And yes, we have Henry Cavill as Loras, who is way prettier than that guy!

[Lord Mord]

Tysha,

And yes, we have Henry Cavill as Loras, who is way prettier than that guy!

Well, it's all right. A movie star is needed, and as movie stars go, you guys chose really well. Didn't mean to knock your choice.

[NakedStark]

Really, Nakedstark? I seem to have provided more evidence than you. Brynden has to be in his sixties at least. He was already a knight, there, remember?

Sean Bean is wrong for the Blackfish. He's not old enough at all. Irons resembles his damn fine

No, you haven't and what you have provided isn't even accurate. In AGOT 58: Sansa V page 622 - He joined the kingsguard in his twenty-third year and served three kings, Jaeherys II, Aerys II, and Robert.

Using the AGOT Appendix, Barristan Selmy's age comes out to be at most 62, Jaehaerys II reigned from 259-262. 259 - 23 = born in 236 (earliest) and given that AGOT must be no later than 298, 298 - 236 puts the upper bound on Selmy's age as 62.

I've found no evidence to support a conclusion that The Blackfish is older than Selmy at either The Citadel or at The Tower Of The Hand.

Given the youthfulness of many Knights in Westeros (Loras Tyrell and Jaime Lannister were on the Kingsguard at 17-18), you can produce an age range for Brynden being as young as 54 in AGOT (assuming AGOT is the year 297, and Brynden was 16 at the time of the Ninepenny Kings, which could have happened anywhere from 252-259 to maintain concordance with Selmy's correct age, who btw was Knighted at age 16.)

Further, in AFFC 34: Jaime V page 705 US PB (the reminisce to which I referred), Jaime indicates that Brynden was younger then than Jaime is currently (31 in AGOT 13 Eddard II page 116 US PB, so about 34 in AFFC). Jaime was a squire at the time meaning he was probably 10-14 years of age, which pretty well pins down Brynden's age as being between 54-58 (and we can make that younger depending on how much younger Brynden was then than Jaime is currently).

Thus, like I said initially Brynden is closer to age 50 than he is to age 70.

If you don't like a particular choice offered up by someone, that's fine but don't act like it's your place to decide which actors merit or do not merit consideration for which part.