Casting the Movie Continued

[Maester Yobjascz]

Tysha -

I still think Sam Elliott is a better Blackfish... but I was trying to offer up an alternative. I still don't agree with you on the whole 'too modern-looking' argument, but there's not going to be any progress there either way.

I never had much of a problem with JTT's acting... and like I said, I wasn't impressed at all by William Moseley. It's another alternative.

As I pointed out earlier, my only concern with Henry Ian Cusick as Eddard is that no one else has that long a face (save perhaps Damien Lewis... who's too much a red-head to pass for a Stark). Benjen and Brandon just won't look 'Stark-ish' by comparison, and that'd be wrong.

Sean Bean is fairly sharp-faced when he's thin... let him put on a few pounds, and he rounds out nicely (see his Boromir character). I agree that he might not match up with William Moseley, but then again, I don't think Moseley's good for Robb...

As for Brienne... I simply don't see much out there on Kathryn Stockwood. She may be ~6' tall, but I don't know much else. My suggestion of having her be played by a man is one borne out of frustration at not being able to find a woman who's 6'+, who can act well enough for a PoV role, and who's that tall while still broad and muscular (and not tall and model-thin and waif-like). If we can find such a woman, by all means, go for it. I'm just doubting the possibility.

[Lightsnake]

Sam Elliot is not a good actor and I haven't seen ANY roles he could be in that support the Blackfish.

And Carylye looks slight there because he's pretty much matched to someone pretty damn big it seems. Carlyle is 5'8. He plays a mean soldier, too. How would Sam look anything like his father, anyways? Sam is soft and fat. Randyll is cold, hard and tough. Qualities Carlyle and express well.

And again: You are suggesting Sean Bean play a role over twenty years his junior, he doesn't look the part at all. Lewis could do the role fine, or Ewan McGregor who I see as wasted on Daven. And Boromir couldn't be more different from Edmure.

But here's Winslet looking a great Cat here:

http://adorocinema.cidadeinternet.com.br/p...e-winslet02.jpg

[Maester Yobjascz]

How would Sam look anything like his father, anyways?

Ummm... 'cause they're related? Just because one is fit and martial, and the other is soft and leisurely doesn't mean that they shouldn't have similar features. They are still father and son.

You keep picking on Sean Bean... I suggested David Wenham as an alternative, and that got no comment at all... Ewan McGregor's also a good option, though it depends on who's cast as the rest of the Tullys.

My only issue with Winslet is that she looks too young... I know she's the right age, but she looks like she's in her 20s... I'd prefer Connie Nielsen to Winslet... and Foster to Nielsen. But that's me.

[Tysha]

As for Brienne... I simply don't see much out there on Kathryn Stockwood. She may be ~6' tall, but I don't know much else. My suggestion of having her be played by a man is one borne out of frustration at not being able to find a woman who's 6'+, who can act well enough for a PoV role, and who's that tall while still broad and muscular (and not tall and model-thin and waif-like). If we can find such a woman, by all means, go for it. I'm just doubting the possibility.

I would suggest renting Sorority Boys but ... I'm not that cruel!

But here's a whole load of pics of Kathryn in the film, some of which I've already posted, and here's an article about her directing her first movie. She's not waif-like at all and she can act. She can do the physical strength but she can also do the emotional vulnerability.

It would just be horrible for Brienne to be played by a man. She is an unattractive, awkward, insecure woman who gets treated incredibly cruelly because of her masculine looks, but she is still a woman. It would be insulting for her to be played by a man.

Lightsnake, Kate Winslet looks more like Sansa in that picture than Cat! But it is a very old picture so I'll try and forgive her for looking waaaaaaaaay too young!

And I've just watched This Life +10 on BBC2 and this thought entered my head so I thought I'd throw it out there ... Jack Davenport as Ned?

[Lightsnake]

It's heavily stressed Sam and his dad have nothing in common. Both the guys we have for Sam and Robert Carlyle have similar hair tone and a few flashback scenes together will deal with anything.

I'm NOT picking on Bean, he's a favorite actor of mine, but he's not Edmure. It requires him to be much younger than he is- over two decades- and soften up entirely, which is wasitng him. and the castings of most of the Tullys are fine. Denehys and Lewis could easily stay where they are. Elliot needs to go and Catelyn changed wouldn't be that bad, but that's it. Wenham would also make a better Daeron the Drunk for the Hedge Knight, rather than a Tully.

Winslet's youthful looks help her beauty, and she's a fine actress for the role. Tell the audience she's the mother of the kids and that'll be that. Jodie Foster is an amazing actress, but she is NOT Cat, nor is Nielsen.

[Maester Yobjascz]

Jack Davenport's not bad as Eddard.... comparing the two side-by-side (Sorry, don't have Photoshop access here), and Davenport actually looks *a lot* like Cranston. Perhaps that resolves one of my dilemnas... Ok, I'm on the Davenport-as-Eddard bandwagon. He's young enough that he'll be able to play a younger Eddard in flashbacks, while we can age him up *a little* for the majority of his role... and Cranston should work well as Rickard Stark... looks just like an older Davenport... but now the craggy looks work for the role.

Comments on the following casting for the Starks: Bryan Cranston as Rickard Stark. Jack Davenport as Eddard Stark. Hugh Jackman as Brandon Stark. And Ron Livingston as Benjen Stark. Take a look at their faces... the length, the eyebrow ridgeline, the jawline, etc. They look like a family.

And Lightsnake... once again, there's a reason that I (and others) keep harping on family resemblance. While you can *get away* with lesser casting and telling the audience that two characters are related, they won't really believe it. It's only when the actors look like family that the audience will *believe* that they're family. And we need them to *believe* in the characters, so that they will *believe* in the story.

[Darcia]

And I've just watched This Life +10 on BBC2 and this thought entered my head so I thought I'd throw it out there ... Jack Davenport as Ned?

I just watched This Life +10 and was going to suggest Jack Davenport! Right age, dark hair, has a noble look, works for me. Henry is too brown of skin, he looks more Dornish.

As for Kate Winslet, she played the mother of two girls (5 and 7) way back in 1998 for Hideous Kinky. And even if she does look a little young, can't people just think that Cat is looking good for her age?

[Maester Yobjascz]

Darcia -

The problem with Winslet isn't at the beginning of AGoT, where she could easily get away with being a young-looking mother. It's later in ACoK and ASoS, where the weight of the war and the constant fear for her sons take their toll... she needs to start looking *older* than her age... and Winslet barely looks her age to begin with. Compound this with her role as unCat in AFfC+, where her age combines with being dead for a bit, and it just doesn't work out so well...

[Lightsnake]

They're also far inferior to most of the Starks we already have.

And seriously, what matters is Kate Winslet looks the part initially. Makeup jobs and Kate's own terrific acting will take care of the rest. Is this the only complaint with her? Should we be choosing totaly haggard actresses because they're portray later emotion better? Cat's supposed to be a gorgeous woman initially and Winslet pulls that off.

ost of the people we have in the families do look enough like families. I could easily buy Ewan was Kate Winslet's brother and Kirstie Allie's sister and Jeremy Irons's niece.

Jack Davenport wouldn't be a bad Ned, but I'd keep Brandon and Rickard, Bana and Neeson are downright perfect. So's Jackman for Benjen

[Maester Yobjascz]

Jack Davenport wouldn't be a bad Ned, but I'd keep Brandon and Rickard, Bana and Neeson are downright perfect. So's Jackman for Benjen

Except that Neeson is 6'4", which is waaay taller than any other Stark. He's also got a very short face, which doesn't match up at all. Cranston, on the other hand, has very similar features to the other Starks that are being suggested... and looks *very* close to Davenport. Moreover, this is a pretty minor role... a couple of flashbacks, tops. So why waste Liam Neeson on a role that he doesn't quite look right for?

And as for Eric Bana... still doesn't look quite like the other Starks. He does share a similar face with Liam Neeson... but that face isn't a long one. Compare Eric Bana's face here with Neeson's face here... they've got short, pear-shaped faces. Not long at all. I could see casting Eric Bana as Liam Neeson's son... but not as Starks.

Jackman does have the longer face... and his features are close enough to Davenport and Cranston to have the 'Stark' look. He's also plays passion and rage well, which make him a good choice for Brandon Stark. Jackman isn't that young anymore, so while I think he can do Brandon, I don't think we can peel his age back far enough for him to play Benjen in the flashbacks...

... which leads us to Ron Livingston. Similar facial features to Cranston, Davenport, *and* Jackman... but still a baby-face. With scruff, he looks old enough to play Benjen as we see him in AGoT... early/mid 30's. Fit and active, but still quiet. Shave him clean, and he'll pass for early 20s. Close enough for the Young Wolf in the Harrenhall tourney flashback.

[Lightsnake]

So? Rickard Stark was a legendary and huge figure, why would a few extra inches matter. Neeson is easily the best actor and can easily look the part. Both are noble warriors and the whole long face issue is pretty pedantic. Like people will be truly focusing on their jawlines?

Bana is the same and looks like his son there. They appear in flashbacks and both pull off noble extremely well.

And Jackman isn't that young, so? Like Benjen's a young man after years on the frozen wall? He has to be in his thirties at least and likely looks older

[Darcia]

Maester Y - If Ned is 18 at the Harrenhal tourney, then Benjen would be about 12! You think that Ron Livingstone can pass for a 12 year old if he doesn't have a beard.

Brandon is 20 when he dies, wouldn't it be better to cast a 20 year old actor. It is such a small part it wouldn't even need to be a good actor.

[Maester Yobjascz]

I don't recall Lord Rickard Stark being a 'legendary and huge figure'... he was simply the father of Eddard Stark and his siblings. The face matters because you're trying to cast a family. And while Neeson and Bana look like family, they don't match up with Davenport or Jackman.

And if Neeson is a great actor, and Bana's a good actor, why cast them in small roles like Rickard and Brandon? Why not cast those that really do look the role, and give the Neeson/Bana combo another set of roles? Karstarks, Florents, Freys... all have more screentime, with more complicated characters, and need family appearance. Why keep them as Starks, other than that that's where they've been sitting thus far?

As for Jackman, if he looks older, cast him as an older Stark. You're not explaining why he wouldn't fit as Brandon... only that you'd prefer to shoehorn him into the Benjen role... and even then, not explaining why that cramped fit would be better.

[Lightsnake]

He's the honorable Rickard Stark and Eddard's father Liam looks enough like any other choice for Ned to pass it is.

And cameos can be fine for big actors. At least give them good, meaningful roles there.

And again, did you miss how Benjen's been on the Wall for about twenty years as a head Ranger? In fact, Jackman is....in his late thirties. this is a stretch how? In fact, that's pretty accurate

[Maester Yobjascz]

Darcia -

I think the ages are going to be fudged a bit... if Robb and the other boys are to be a few years older, then the older generation would be a few years older too. That's been pretty well accepted, I think. And I don't recall Benjen being that much younger than Eddard. Younger, yes. But I don't remember the text noting a 6 year difference, specifically. Even if Benjen were only a year younger than Eddard, it'd be enough for the Stark succession.

So, no... I don't think Ron Livingston could pass for a 12-year-old. However, I do think he could pass for 20-ish... with Eddard being a few years older.

As to casting another as Brandon Stark... I'm open to suggestions. I drew Jackman into the role because he was previously cast as a Stark (Benjen), and had the facial look to go along with the rest of the family. If there's another suggestion out there, I'm all ears.

Lightsnake -

Ron Livingston is ... also in his late 30s. He just looks younger, which allows more flexibility for flashbacks.

And I don't understand casting Liam Neeson simply because Rickard Stark was "honorable".

...

- Do you agree that Davenport should be cast as Eddard Stark?

- Do you agree that Bryan Cranston looks more like Davenport than Neeson looks like Davenport?

If you answer yes to both of those questions, then why would you force Neeson into the role?

[Darcia]

You are forgetting Lyanna, who is older than Benjen, and younger than Ned. I thought is was agreed that the kids could be slightly older, but you are getting very creative with the ages if you think that Benjen can be 20-ish at Harrenhal

[Lightsnake]

why are you changing ages fas you see fit? Jackman looks the part way better.

And Liam Neeson is a great actor for a character so important in the onset of the war and the casting will show the audience what a tragedy his death is. And who's forcing Neeson into the role at all? He simply fits it better than the other named actors.

Peersonally, I would rather keep the Starks as is, but Davenport's a better suggestion for a change than others seen so far.

[Maester Yobjascz]

Okay... let's take a close look at the Starks. I'm basing my info on the Tower of the Hand, as I don't have the books with me.

Eddard is listed as 35. Robb is 14. Lyanna died at 16. Lyanna is younger than Eddard, and older than Benjen.

First off, Lightsnake, Benjen couldn't possibly have been Head Ranger for 20 years, or even a ranger for 20 years. The rebellion started when Robb was conceived, so roughly 15 years ago. At the time, the assumption is that Benjen was the Stark in Winterfell. Even if he had joined the Night's Watch, he'd not have been older than Lyanna, who apparently wasn't 20 years old. Benjen would've had to have joined the Night's Watch six years before Robb was born, which would be roughly four years *before* the tourney at Harrenhall. If Benjen was truly 12 at Harrenhall, he'd have been Head Ranger at the Night's Watch at the ripe old age of 8. So that's out.

Second, if we cast directly to the books, Benjen is (at AGoT) in his late 20s, tops. If we bump up the ages a couple of years, he's still late 20's, *maybe* 30. It's a bit young for Jackman... possibly a bit young for Livingston. So either we cast someone else entirely, or we allow some flexibility. Second, if we keep these ages canon, then we've got to cast a 'young Benjen' for the flashbacks. There's a lot of people here who don't like doing that... but either we do it that way, or we find an actor in his 20s that can pass for early teens (unlikely, as that's an age range with *a lot* of facial/body changes), or we bump Benjen's age up some more, so that he's in his early 20's at Harrenhall, and mid/late 30s at AGoT. It's not as faithful to the letter of the text, but it doesn't really affect the story at all, so I have little problem with it.

Third, Lyanna is 16 at her death... We can either hold to that, or, like Benjen, bump her up to match (depending on the approach taken). If Benjen is in his 20's at Harrenhall, Lyanna would be the same (say ~23... she would die at ~25). Once again, this has near-zero impact on the story, so I have no problems doing it.

Finally, as there's enough space in the ages between Lyanna, Benjen, and Eddard, you could bump the younger ones up without having to change Eddard's age. He'd be 25 at Harrenhall, and near 40 at AGoT. Total shift = 5 years.

If changing the reading of the text can be shown, in any way, to counter the storyline, I would refuse to do it. But where it doesn't have any impact on the story, and allows casting the right people, or allows the audience to better believe the story (and thus actually enhances the story), then I support it. Yes, it's being creative with the ages. But if there was no art to adaptations, and if it were purely formulaic, they wouldn't hand out Academy Awards for doing it well.

I'm not saying that this is the way it has to be. I'm just trying to point out the pros and cons of each method.

[Tysha]

Yay, Jack Davenport!

And I'm actually all for changing the rest of the Stark men - the actors we have now are wasted in the roles and Eric Bana is way too old to be Brandon. However, I'm slightly confused by the suggestion of Hugh Jackman as 20-year-old Brandon. Surely a much younger actor would be better here? Cranston works for me as Rickard but I think we need a younger Brandon and Benjen.

And I agree with Maester Y about the ages of these characters. We can allow ourselves a bit of creative license, we don't have to be militant! As long as they look like siblings and the adult Ned looks older than the adult Benjen, it's fine.

[Lightsnake]

The detail is, though: Jackman seems to be a far better choice than Livingstone. When does Benjen even need to be in a flashbacj anyways?