Alyn Oakenfist

2 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Glen Cook had the answer to that, in The Black Company.  You would always choose Sauron (or in his case, Dark Galadriel) over chaos.

Yes Sauron is not Morgoth, he wants to dominate where as Morgoth just wanted to destroy, however he took came dangerously close to actually winning, despite arguably being less powerful that his former master.

Also, what is The Black Company?

2 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

I was thinking of whatever one it was, where her minions did all the sewer work and she just sat in a tent.

That's Meereen.

I thought you were referring to the time she saved Astapor from it's awful fate at the hands of the slavers.

2 minutes ago, SeanF said:

It's a theory, but not one I adhere to.  The Others are a threat like Morgoth, compared to which any human being is a joke.

I mean Morgoth was the big existential bad, but that didn't make Sauron any less dangerous. On the contrary, his more human evil was far more insidious and even maybe dangerous from how hard it was to fight it.

3 minutes ago, SeanF said:

That doesn't mean she'll swoop in and save everything like a dea ex machina, but I expect she (and others) will play their part.

Yes, she will play her part, but she is not the savior.

3 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

She's gonna swoop in at the last moment (tension: will she arrive? won't she?), yell dracarys, and save everyone without lifting a finger like she did Yunkai. 

You mean Astapor?

But yes, I agree her doing something like that would be so satisfying, thought not as satisfying as Arya, another character with no involvement in the WW plot pulling a "teleports behind you nothing personal kid" and ending the Long Night with just one stab.

1 minute ago, El Guapo said:

So what?  She will know about them soon enough. What a coincidence that the two major conflicts hinted at since book one. Dany's invasion of Westeros and the Others invasion of Westeros have yet to happen.  

You do know Dany is supposed to be as big an existential threat to Westeros as the Others, and not the savior, right?

Just now, El Guapo said:

You are right. Through 5 books There has been 1 skirmish with the Others at the Fist and a one on one fight between Sam and an Other.  

Like I said the war hasn't really started yet

No, but still, the fight against the others is the main driving force behind Jon's and Stannis's plot in ADWD, and yet for Dany, she doesn't even know the Others are real.

1 minute ago, SeanF said:

Then of course, there’s Kim Wexler, who may well be the Daenerys of BSC.  

I mean I hope not, because unlike Daenerys I actually like Kim, and really hope she pulls out of the whole madness in time (it would also help explain why she isn't in BrBa)

Just now, El Guapo said:

Because the war with the Others hasn't started yet? 

Tell that to Great ranging. Also the people at Hardhome. Also Sam.

10 minutes ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

The OP already did that.  Daenerys Targaryen is Azor Ahai.  The prophecy was clear. Azor Ahai will wake dragons from stone.  She did that.  She is the only person to have done that.  Drogo was her Nissa Nissa.  

If Dany is Azor Ahai, how come five books have passed and her relation to the White Walker plot has been fuck all? You'd expect the hero to have some actual connection to the villain plot.

Just now, CamiloRP said:

Mel Blanc once said he wished he was Bugg Bunny, but he was stuck being Wile E. Coyote. What I love about Jimmy is that he's both.

Exactly, and it makes for fascinating character, seeing him struggle and slowly lose the goodness (seriously though, fuck Chuck!), where as in Breaking Bad, you get a sense that the dangerous ego maniac was always there, just waiting to be unleashed. It makes for a great catharsis at the end of Season 5, but it makes him a far less interesting protagonist than Saul.

1 minute ago, CamiloRP said:

Agree to all, yet for some reason I enjoy BCS way more

Yes in terms of enjoyment I too prefer BCS, mainly due to the comedy. When BrBa stalled hard I had to take 2 days off my binge run. When BCS stalled I just laughed at the still funny jokes.

'Also I think it needs to be said that BCS has a far more likable protagonist. Walter White was always an ego driven unfulfilled genius, he just hasn't unleashed on the world yet, where as with Saul, we can see him being a good guy, and slowly get torn down by the shittiness of the world. The scene with the scholarship hearing in particular is just great in that regard.

Walter was almost always like that deep down, I think that's why the ending of Granite State is the best scene ever, because that's when both Walter and we as the audience see that and how it all goes back to Gretchen and Elliot (tbf we also see this in the "empire business" thing)

4 minutes ago, CamiloRP said:

tho of course, to have a definitive choice we'll have to wait for the finally.

Indeed. BrBa had probably the best ending it could have, so BCS clearly has a hard landing to stick, and also it suffers from several constraints, like figuring out how to dispose of Kim.

1 minute ago, CamiloRP said:

And controvertial statement, but since we are waring here: BCS>BrBa

Hard to say. I think they're kinda similar in many ways

- Both have incredible characters

- Both have incredible dynamics and believable growth

- Both stall horribly at times

Right now, I think BrBa edges out just a little bit due to how incredible the finale was, but I will withhold judgement until we get the last season of BCS. However I can easily see myself liking BCS more then, it's just that now BrBa has a nice conclusion and a beyond satisfying ending.

Also I will admit BCS has way better villains (Better fuck Chuck indeed), and is very often incredibly funny. The part in the last season where Saul is stalling on the house is absolutely hilarious especially.

3 minutes ago, CamiloRP said:

t'sall good.

Saul Goodman, is that you?

2 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

Not sure what you wanted me to reply to? It was just your opinion on where you think the book is heading and not based on anything actually written in the text..

Oh, the irony...

15 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

No. I don't think Dany WILL be Queen at the end. And if she does become queen  it won't last long because she will die defeating the Others. But that is beside the point. I have no idea why you are conflating Azor Ahai with being a  king or queen because they literally have nothing to do with each other.

I mean tbf they kinda do. All potential AA's, Stannis Jon and Dany are closely connected to Kingship. Both Stannis and Dany claim to be Kings, and while Jon isn't yet, the mountain of foreshadowing in that direction is through the roof.

Just now, El Guapo said:

You do realize that Azor Ahai has absolutely nothing to do with being a  king or queen, right?

So you admit Dany shouldn't be Queen?

Just now, El Guapo said:

P.S. I don't need to "prove" anything to you.

Yes you do, if you claim Dany is Azor Ahai. I'm not claiming anything, I'm questioning your assumptions.

1 minute ago, El Guapo said:

The proof is in the books.  Many threads have been written about it right here on this site.

Feel free to point it out.

4 minutes ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Daenerys is Azor Ahai. She woke dragons from stone. That is the proof of her rebirth as Azor Ahai. Stannis is a fake, a fraud.  

As I said, supreme executive authority should derive from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical desert ceremony. I mean you can't expect for Dany to claim supreme executive power just because of some lizards.

12 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

So prove it.  Prove that the Others will be defeated by peace and compromise and therefore AA can't be Dany. Prove it.

Did I say I have any proof? I said:

"And like really think about it from GRRM's POV. How should the hero save the world? Through peace and compromise or through nukes?"

Nothing less.

Also, as I said, you were the one to claim Dany is AA, the burden of proof is on you.

3 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

Prove it.

Prove what?

Have you even fucking read what I wrote, or are you just repeating something you saw other people posting without bothering to understand the context in which it's most commonly used?

8 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Even the most unenlightened of people in this world would take the view that Dany's duty is to protect the unborn child of her lord husband, and to accept his judgements.

Yes, and regardless, put it this way, who matters more to Dany, her idiot abusive brother, or her unborn child? The answer is obvious.

3 minutes ago, SeanF said:

I imagine that when a young mother has just been threatened with disembowellment, pleading for the life of her assailant will be the last thing on her mind.  Not that Drogo would have done any differently.

We should not expect any woman in this tale to be Patient Griselda.

I mean yeah. When faced with a threat against her children, any normal mom would disregard anything and everything to keep her children safe.

It'd be more weird if Dany didn't agree with Viserys's death tbh.

2 minutes ago, Springwatch said:

There's a bunch of evidence in favour of Dany. I'm not going to bring it up, because you know it already, and I think you're just fooling around here, arguing for the fun of it.

I mean let's be honest all of us here on this forum are just arguing for the fun of it, why else would we be here if not to debate and argue?

Now as for the evidence, the only pieces of evidence are the the dragons and Azor Ahai's thing about waking the stone dragons.

There are at least three options for the savior mythos, there's the Last Hero, there's Azor Ahai and there's the Rhoynar story. Only one of them features dragons.

But even with the dragons, just MMD giving her dragons is not really a good basis for becoming Azor Ahai or even worse Queen.

I mean supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical desert ceremony. You can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some Lazareen tart threw some lizards at you. I mean if I went around saying I was an King just because some desert bink had lobbed a lizard at me they'd put me away.

Jokes aside, the dragons are I think the greatest arguments against Dany being Azor Ahai.

Two of the savior story we know are about making peace to fight a greater enemy, only the Rhallo version being about the savior riding dragons and wielding Lightbringer saving the day.

Therefore I think the hero will be the one to bring the forces against the Others through peace and compromise. That will be either Stannis giving up his kingship for the greater good, or Jon rallying everything and everyone against the Others.

And like really think about it from GRRM's POV. How should the hero save the world? Through peace and compromise or through nukes?

Finally, there's also the fact that Dany's plot is not tied to the WW in any way shape or form. Her being Azor Ahai makes as much sense as Arya being the one to end the Long Night.

4 minutes ago, Springwatch said:

Can you prove she isn't?

That's not how it works.

You're the one claiming she is, so the burden of proof is on you.

You cannot just make stuff up and then ask the other party to prove that you're not right, otherwise I could just claim you're part of a Dany worshipping cult and ask you to prove that you're not. I'm not saying you, are I'm just pointing out the kind of random stuff you can spew out without providing any proof.

Obviously I'm not doing that. Similarly you cannot claim Dany is Azor Ahai and then just ask us to prove that she isn't.

Your are the one that needs to prove that she is.

4 hours ago, Quoth the raven, said:

Dany is Azor Ahai.

Prove it.

1 minute ago, Nathan Stark said:

And the best dragons. Nobody has dragons like D.T. does, believe me!

D. T. - "I know dragons, I have a lot of experience with dragons. Nobody has dragons like I do. My dragons are just the best, they have so much life and vigor... It's incredible. Some say they burned a little girl, but trust me, they didn't, that's just fake news."