The Grey Wolf Strikes Back

I see. The thing is, the birth of a healthy son IS enough cause.

Season 1 should have ended with Rhaenyra and Laenor's wedding, season 2 with Lucerys' death. By your logic, Jon Arryn, Stannis, and Ned had no cause for investigating the paternity of Cersei's children. A Trial by Seven would have been amazing!

Yes, I meant Henry I. Facepalm. Neither of those monarchs had living sons either so my point still stands.

The Widow's Law does not apply to matters of succession. Otherwise, we would see other examples of daughters from first marriages inheriting ahead of sons from second marriages, which we empathically don't. Viserys I has not "basically done [that] already". In order to legitimize a bastard, it first needs to be acknowledged as such and to do so is, as stated in the text itself, tantamount to admitting to treason, one of the highest crimes in the realm, so Alicent is well within her fits throw a fit over it. (The only reason other people don't speak up is because Viserys can punish them for it to a much greater extent than he can Alicent, on account of her being his wife.) I don't think Criston is jealous nor is he an incel considered he joined the Kingsguard willingly. What's obvious to me is that he's bitter over the fact Rhaenyra got him* to break his vows for what was, from her perspective, a one-night stand, which really tells you something about Rhaenyra's political acumen (or lack thereof), not to mention basic human empathy, when she thinks she can proposition her bodyguard, a knight sworn to celibacy, for sex and then genuinely believe things will go back to the way they were before with nary a hitch. It may be hard for us to understand in the modern day but back then oaths MATTERED. Honor MATTERED. Especially for someone who came from nothing like Criston. Just to be clear, I'm not condoning the way Criston insults her or treats her sons in episode 6 but I can understand why he's come to hate her so much. *When I say she "got" him to do it I mean that she was the one who initiated it and when he displayed hesitation didn't pull back. Seeing as she's also his social superior/employer's daughter and an adult both in-setting as well as out-of-setting whether Criston consented or not to me feels a little moot.

To give one example Henry II of England once he no longer had any legitimate sons. Something similar would be the Pragmatic Sanction of Charles VI (HRE).

@DMC Why would Viserys look weak? He could easily say "now that I have a living, trueborn son Rhaenyra is no longer heir to the Iron Throne". In a medieval setting like Westeros he doesn't need more reason than that. Hell, I can't think of a single RL monarch who chose an elder daughter over a younger son, which is saying a lot considering how many monarchs there have been throughout history.

The Blackfyres definitely had support in the Third and Fourth.

@frenin The thing is we NEVER see what the realm actually thinks. Heirs of the Dragon focuses almost entirely on KL and even then only on a superficial level (we don't even know if Viserys made any improvements to the capital's infrastructure the way his grandfather did!). Furthermore, F & B doesn't go into great detail about Jace's trip. Hell, it offers three different versions of how negotiations with Cregan and Jeyne went down! On top of that, the Greens' side of the narrative gets far less focus and detail in general. Why a lot of houses in the Reach (such as the Roxtons) backed the Greens but not their own bannermen or kin (looking at you Redwyne!) isn't explained. Nor why the Lannisters or Brackens sided with the Greens (other than the fact GRRM wanted the Blackwoods to be Black). On top of that you have houses taking down Aegon II's banner when he's murdered but who these houses are and where the hell they were during all the fighting goes unanswered. A final example would be the fact that House Vance of Atranta also declares for the Greens...but then gets taken out off-page without so much as a sentence explaining how. The storming of Stone Hedge "ends" Aegon II's support in the Riverlands BUT WHERE WAS THIS SUPPORT? GRRM didn't show OR imply it! Hell, the Silent Five get mentioned after the fact, with their actions having been nothing noteworthy! This omission of detail shows in the fact that even though the Greens are almost always characterized as having more men the list of Blacks on the wiki is way, way, way longer than the list of Greens.

Pretty much. The Faith Militant Uprising could be a nice change of pace given the focus on religion and most of the characters being smallfolk.

This.

The succession does concern Alicent seeing as she's the queen. Bastards have no rights of succession unless acknowledged and legitimized. The king can be in denial as much as he wants but as Lord Strong so aptly puts it "people have eyes". And no, legitimizing them after the fact wouldn't work because not only would that be a slap in the face to House Velaryon but it would also tarnish Rhaenyra's image by making her out to be a flagrant adulterer and in her own words in F & B that would be "tantamount to treason". Plus, there's the fact that if she were to somehow legitimize the Strong boys that just sets up an even bigger civil war down the line seeing as in addition to the Hightower-Targaryens you'll have people arguing Daemon's sons should have inherited ahead of Jace, Luke, and Joff seing as they were legitimate from the start and their father a royal prince, which trumps the heir to Harrenhal any day of the week. Westeros isn't just inspired by medieval England and France though. And we do have at least one canon example in the form of Urrathon IV (Badbrother). Beyond that, let's not kid ourselves that Daemon was a genuine threat, whether he sat the throne himself or merely whispered in Rhaenyra's ear. Setting aside the fact he was latter willing to hire assassins to kill an innocent child (who was also related to him!) the dude was named a suspect in the murder of Laenor Velaryon + the death of Lyonel Strong and Ser Harwin Strong, had a pastime of deflowering virgins, deliberately goaded the wastrel son of the Sealord into a one-sided duel to have Laena for himself, started a war of conquest he then abandoned (along with the men who had made him king!) on a whim (as in he grew bored), mocked his newborn nephew's death the day after, possibly groomed or had sex with his underage niece, and tried to steal Runestone's inheritance after the death of Rhea (who, to add insult to injury, he didn't give two f*cks about) since nowhere in canon have use rights for a widow/widower been established. Seriously, if I lived in Daemon's time I wouldn't want him anywhere near the throne. GRRM can go on and on about how Daemon is a bad boy who was made of both light and darkness and beloved as well as reviled but as the Darkstar debacle shows what the text says does not always match the image in the author's head or their intention, which is indeed the case here because any objective assessment of Daemon Targaryen would conclude the man was both a monster and a jerk. Oh, and half his advice during the Dance was complete horseshit.

Enough people did switch sides to make a difference but fair enough.

Alicent's beef with the bastardy of Rhaenyra's sons may not be sympathetic to everyone but it is certainly understandable from an in-setting perspective. I actually liked that Alicent and Rhaenyra both made good points. Keeps things from getting cartoonish. If Rhaenyra wasn't a bad ruler how do you explain Marston Waters, Broome, and the Two Toms getting almost everyone on Dragonstone to switch sides? Lol. Say that to Pedro the Cruel or Arthur, Duke of Brittany or John the Fearless or William Rufus or Donald III to name just a few counter-examples to your assertion. Hell, William I and Henry II faced multiple outright rebellions from their sons on top of William I's sons fighting each other after his death and John I scheming against Richard I. Oh, and there's the deposition/murder of Edward II as well as Richard II. Almost as if people WEREN'T hesitant to off their kin if it meant securing their own power.

Not to mention the whole "an eye for an eye, a son for a son" thing doesn't work if there's only one son. Oh, and the fact Jaehaera's female as well as autistic means the right choice would be obvious dynastically-speaking.

Septon Eustace wasn't made to walk to Stoney Sept either. His replacement, Septon Bernard, was made to walk to Oldtown with his genitals hanging from his neck, and then to spend the rest of his life in silent prayer, not that I think he was too miffed about it. Dude mainly wanted to compose bad music. And I disagree cutting Maelor would be a good idea. Bitterbridge is important for any arc they give Daeron (who I'd be tempted to quit the show over if he's cut) and more importantly its not only one of the saddest/most horrific/cinematic moments of the Dance but also one of the rare moments where GRRM let's a Green die with some actual pathos. In fact, the only other Greens whose deaths are presented as badass or sympathetic (apart from Helaena and Jaehaerys) are Hobert and Roxton but in the latter's case that's undermined by him being an outright unrepentant rapist. Contrast that with Roddy the Ruin, Daemon, Addam Velaryon, Rhaenys, Jacaerys, the Seven Who Rode, Arthor Celtigar, the last three Queensguard, and to a much lesser extent Lords Piper and Frey, etc. Then again, I've made it clear before in my opinion the Dance is poor character work and an even worse war story so at this point I'm probably just repeating myself.

Thanks for explaining @karaddin.

Yeah. Rhaenys and Laena's claims were "immediately dismissed" if I remember the text correctly.

That certainly would color one's assessment of him. And thanks for answering my question about Stephen of Blois. Dude sounds like he was a real piece of work.

That's what I was getting at when I said I don't think its fair to say Otto was one of the worst Hands ever. He served 3 different kings over the span of 20 years and apart from 129 AC the realm was peaceful as well as prosperous, which makes sense when you consider that Gyldayn describes him as being a very methodical man. Speaking of that, I think Otto's lack of success under Aegon II stems more or less from the fact his efforts only bore fruit AFTER he was stripped of office. We know for a fact he was responsible for bringing in the Triarchy, not to mention the terms he offered them, but he also strengthened the defenses of KL and sent out riders as well as ravens that may account for some of the houses that ended up declaring for the Greens. (Its frustrating how much more page-time the Blacks get in F & B, not to mention the Riverlands alone raising multiple armies.)

@EggBlue I was specifically addressing the situation in 101 AC. As for the situation in 92 AC while Rhaenys was indeed an adult Jaehaerys I would have had no way of knowing her capabilities at that time. She was only 18 and pregnant with her first child to boot. Baelon was already a war veteran with two healthy adult male heirs who may or may not have also served his father in some official capacity. (I'm extrapolating from the fact Aemon served as Master of Laws for his father.) While I don't agree with Jaehaerys I's decision I can certainly understand the reasoning behind it.

@MisbornHeir What was the alternative? Daemon and Corlys were both amassing armies in support of Viserys and Laenor respectively. If Jaehaerys I had simply picked Viserys or Laenor there would have been no guarantee his decision would be accepted by the other side and if by some miracle he got Vaegon released from his vows there can be little doubt both sides would temporarily band together to remove him before then turning on each other. In other words, Jaehaerys I was really stuck between a rock and a hard place and the decision to call a GC was honestly the best that could be made. The blame for the Dance of the Dragons lies with Viserys I, who was dumb enough to remarry and sire sons after naming Rhaenyra his heir. Seriously, if he genuinely cared about his daughter's position, he would have just taken Alicent as a mistress. If even a king from the post-dragon era like Aegon IV could get noblewomen from houses like the Brackens, Blackwoods, and Vaiths into his bed I have no doubt Viserys I could do the same should Alicent refuse. Hell, if Trystane Truefyre was truly Viserys I's bastard son (or if the rumors about Alicent sharing Viserys I's bed while he was still married to Aemma were true) then Viserys I clearly had no qualms about sleeping around.

Oh don't get me started on Ryam Redwyne. He was a major letdown in F & B. (Honestly, Ryam would have worked a lot better if GRRM had switched him with Gyles Morrigen, who comes out of nowhere to do things like slay a fellow Kingsguard in trial by combat and save the queen from assassins. That and he should have given us a reason why Ryam was replaced as Hand less than a year into the position. Maybe he caused a diplomatic crisis with the Free Cities or Dorne? Maybe he stepped into the Blackwood-Bracken feud and made it worse? Maybe he spent so much time in the training yard he ended up neglecting his duties as Hand? Seriously, if GRRM could write reams of material on Coryanne Wylde and the sex lives of Targaryen princesses (but never in the same detail Targaryen princes) he could have come up with a fun story for Ryam's dual fame-infamy the way he did with the Myrish Bloodbath leading to Aemon's death.) The same holds true for Myles Smallwood, who in ASOIAF is also described as being one of the worst Hands ever but as presented in F & B his worst crime is simply giving the king bad advice. (For the record, I disagree with the assessment that Otto Hightower was one of those big failures as Hand.)

It honestly makes you wonder what the hell is going on communication-wise.

@frenin You seem to have forgotten this part of F & B, which makes clear Jace, Luke, and Joff inherited their mother's dislike of the Hightower-Targaryens so its not as if Alicent was the only one unwilling to bury the hatchet: "The sins of the fathers are oft visited on the sons, wise men have said; and so it is for the sins of mothers as well. The enmity between Queen Alicent and Princess Rhaenyra was passed on to their sons, and the queen’s three boys, the Princes Aegon, Aemond, and Daeron, grew to be bitter rivals of their Velaryon nephews, resentful of them for having stolen what they regarded as their birthright: the Iron Throne itself. Though all six boys attended the same feasts, balls, and revels, and sometimes trained together in the yard under the same master-at-arms and studied under the same maesters, this enforced closeness only served to feed their mutual mislike rather than binding them together as brothers." Also, I like how they subtly imply Aegon (as described by GRRM to Amok) isn't very good warrior material when he begins panicking at Jace's aggression. I really, really hope they don't cut Daeron. And boy are they making Criston unlikable, which I'd appreciate more if there'd been a transitionary episode showing the fallout of Joffrey's murder as well as his transition from being guilt-ridden knight to all-around asshole. At least they're still depicting him as being competent in his line of work, which makes the inevitable idiot ball GRRM saddled him with in canon all the more unpleasant to anticipate. (Seriously, for a man so hyped up in ASOIAF as being great (in the sense that he was both the best and the worst of the Kingsguard) and controversial he doesn't really do anything on par with the likes of say Barristan Selmy or even Arthur Dayne, who at least slew the Smiling Knight, before dying in an incredibly anticlimatic and uncathartic way that leaves his relationship with Rhaenyra et al. completely unaddressed, let alone resolved.)

@C.T. Phipps You've said before that Stephen of Blois was worse than Aegon II. Could you elaborate on that because everything I've read about the guy makes him sound like a better version of Aenys (brave and charming but dominated by stronger personalities like that of his wife and younger brother)?