tearloch

The girl with Robb is Jeyne, however they are depicting her, she is just putting on a show. Why would she tell the king that her family is warring with that she is a highborn lady? Perfect hostage situation. She speaks her mind to Robb, and sets up that she will be tending to Robb's wounds later in the series.

My thoughts exactly. She even reprimands him a bit for killing green boys who have no idea why they are fighting except because the man that owns their land shoved a spear in their hands. She is hiding her identity because what would you think would happen to the daughter of a bannerman of the enemy? Remember, the Lannisters have his two sisters, and she has no idea who Robb is or what he is capable of. I think it was a nice set up by HBO for coming episodes, as I was actually let down by the books on how they introduced Jeyne, based on the giant mess she ends up causing.

Did anyone catch the member of the 13 at Qarth that looked like (what I picture as) one of the Undying? Also, the city was spectacular, atleast the little glimpse we got of it. I didn't like the confrontational nature at the gates, but I guess it emphasizes that nobody in Qarth cares about her or her people, and only really care about the dragons. Does a good job of setting up her eventual exit from the city.

What was the deal with Ned's bones? I guess it doesn't change the end result, since Tyrion does eventually release them.

New Mountain? Boo! Not big enough!

Tyrion is the MAN! Lancel's reaction to Tyrion was priceless. Also loved Tyrion's example of the difference between a threat and a lesson for his nephew in the throne room. I love Bronn - "There is no cure for being a cunt." Joffrey is an evil little monster. Counting the days until that little shit is wormfood.

Overall pretty good episode. The most troubling part of it for me was Tywin immediately identifying Ayra as a girl, but not connecting the dots with the missing Stark girl (or does he know that Arya is missing?). I think it takes away from the cunning nature of Tywin (ironically, by showing his cunning nature.....)

So like I said earlier in the thread, why not use any of the existing cliffhangers in the books? Why make up one - and why make one up that doesn't flow? Actually, the show is being made for me, since I am one of those people you talk about watching it, just like it is made for you and every other viewer. My breathing is just fine - no need to worry about that. No, I'm not in the know about what they have written for future episodes - but why does that preclude questioning decisions on what they have shown us so far? They have made a very good adaption overall - but more than a few of the deviations they have chosen to make have not added anything to an all ready rich story. So please, notch down the self righteousness a little

After episode 2 aired, this place blew up with comments about the Craster/Jon cliffhanger. Yes, it was not part of the books. Episode 3 brought us right back to the where we should be based on the books. All HBO did was take several chapters worth of dialogue explaining what is going on with Craster and condensed it down to Jon witnessing it happening. This is on screen. Visuals are preferred. They are faster and cheaper to get the same point across. At the end of episode 3, we know what Craster is doing. We know that the Night's Watch knows what he is doing, and lets him do it because he still supports them when needed. We understand Gilly's fear of staying with Craster. We have the seeds of a Sam / Gilly romance. And we have the Nights Watch moving on. Sure, Jon has a bump on the nogin and a bruised ego, but HBO brilliantly condensed this part of the plot down to fit into the timeline that they have to use, being a 10 episode season.

I don't think it's about him having a different accent than we imagined he would have, at least nor for me. It's about Dinklage falling in and out of his attempt at British English. I think that's reasonable criticism about an ACTOR... He has to control his accent as part of his job. Hugh Laurie controls both accents very well and that makes him a great actor.

This has nothing to do with the show having different accents already. It's about the fact that the characters with accents should be consistent. LF is another example of an inconsistent accent, especially this season. Shae has a very broken accent but at least she doesn't suddenly switch to australian or cockney.

I also have never heard about this being an issue. You laid it out pretty well, and can see where you are coming from. But here is my rebutal:

I always imagined Tyrion as highly intellectual man, who is well travelled and very well read. I don't see it being out of character for him to be able to slip in and out of accents depending on his mood or his surroundings. He has always been shunned everywhere he goes (except maybe the brothels). I see it as a weapon for him, being able to emphasize parts of his speech, to make it stand out, as well as help him blend in when needed. I guess I will start paying more attention to it going forward, now that the thought is in my head, but it hasn't caught my attention yet.

I took Tyrion giving the girl an extra coin was like this:

He paid her for her work with Pycelle. As he turns to leave, he sees Pycelle sort of getting roughed up, so he gives her an extra coin to keep her mouth shut.

I guess I don't know if that makes total sense, since its not like they are trying to be secretive about it. Oh well, still a great scene.

On Sansa / Shae: I get the dislike for Shae. I also get Sansa's reaction to her. In her mind, Shae is just another spy for the queen. I think the actress playing Shae is annoying, but overall I like the way HBO is portraying her. She was sympathetic in the books, but alwasy through Tyrion's POV, up until he finds her in the sack with someone else. HBO is not limited to the POV views of characters, and I feel that HBO is capturing the true Shae. True, it will reduce the agony of her betrayal for the viewers, but there will be plenty of jaw droppers to come. Too many might turn off some viewers.

On the Reeds: I was very disappointed in the Reeds not being in season 2. I do think they will have to add them very early in season 3. Since it appears that Theon takes Winterfell in episode 8 this season, then maybe the Reeds are on their way to Winterfell, see the sack happen, and just wait in the woods, happening onto Hodor, Bran, Rickon, and Osha as they escape. I think the decision not to cast the Reeds in season 2 was all about $$. Season 2 will get rid of some more main characters, so that frees up budget space for the Reeds. 1 Renly = 2 Reeds. That sounds like a bargain to me.

Oh and when Theon takes Winterfell and kills the Miller's kids without Ramsay to tell him to, he is not going to be seen as a protagonist. They are just actually showing the character as he was with the bits the book skipped over until later. Cersei has plenty of stuff on the cards to make her hated too. I didn't like her not killing the Bastards but right now Joff is a damned good villain. The others will get their turn

I don't think the Winterfell story will get that far this season. Based on show titles, Theon will take Winterfell in episode 8. Reek was not with him then. He came in later. If my memory is correct, he comes in while the Winterfell guard is out trying to deal with Ramsay and the old woman he forcefully wed....Which I hope is early in season 3.

They cast the Tickler and a lot of Gregor's crew. It's just going to happen at Harrenhal as opposed to some random city that Arya and co creep up on. I presume that Gregor will be holding Harrenhal while we wait for Tywin to get there. While we wait for Tywin, Gregor and co will do their thing. They kind of show that in the preview for next week. All we are really losing is Gendry, Arya, Hot Pie and Lommy wandering around for a while before stumbling on Gregor and Co at Maidenpool or wherever. Which, with the time constraints on TV, I can understand. Plus they introduce use to Harrenhal earlier.

Or they could torture and pillage on their way to Harrenhall. This would have the same effect. Remember, they were not just looking for Gendry. They were looking for gold. They were looking for Dondarion and his men. All of this can still happen, even without them looking for Gendry.

1. Shireen isn't taken out, the line referred to stillborn sons. 2. Rakharo's death was due to the actor leaving to do another movie. 3. Bywater is not essential; he's a minor character who dies in the book he was introduced in. Having Bronn in his place to betray Tyrion after the battle will be so much more resonant than having one minor character replaced by another.

So far, the only omission of characters so far that I am truly disappointed in is the Reed kids. The rest, I am totally OK with.

1. Shireen: are we sure she will be in the show? The scene on the beach burning the seven, after Stannis gets his sword, he sticks it in the sand and starts to storm off. He doubles back and gets his wife. ONLY his wife. No child was there. Might be insignificant, but could also mean Stannis (HBO type) is childless. In the end, does it matter? What did Shireen ever do to advance the plot of the series?

2. Patchface: Really? Upset about that? Again, what did he ever do to advance the plot, except for put out some jiberish that some take of a prophecy of future events? No real loss here.

3. Bywater: As stated above, no real loss. He is easily replaced with another existing character that will eventually betray Tyrion. Bronn has already said he will do pretty much anything for money.

4. Rakharo (or whoever the bloodrider was): Not a big loss. Not really a big loss in terms of the overall plot. In the end, you get Dany with a hodge podge of a Queens Guard. Barriston Selmy. The fat pit fighter. Joras for a while. It doesn't matter who they really are. She has a band of misfits that are following her.

5. The Blackfish: Still not sure if he is cut or not. I think he is, but who knows. I personally love the Blackfish, and would really have enjoyed seeing him on screen, but as I think about it, he really has done very little for the overall plot (in 5 books). I am not gonna shed a tear if Brynden Rivers is axed from the HBO series, even though I truly love his persona in the books.

6. The Reed kids: This is the one that have both a personal and plot objection. My favorite dialogue in the entire series was when the Reeds came to Winterfell and swore their loyalty to the Starks. Moving! But cutting them creates alot of problems with the plot moving forward. Yes, I get that Osha can serve in a similar manner in terms of Bran's development of his "abilities". In fact, she is probably a better guide for him to get into the north. But who on earth will take Rickon? Will he go with Bran? The omission of the Reeds (who still could be brought into the series later without a ton of problems, if HBO wants to do it) is the only one that I see as truly affecting the overall plot line of the show.

Does anyone else think that although the Stannis actor is doing a good job, when he says

"I cannot defeat my brother in the field"

its one of the worst delivered lines in the series.

I think too many are taking the image we have of Stannis from the books as the real Stannis. Remember, the book is all through the eyes of other characters. The Stannis we know from the books is mostly derived from the POV of Davos, who owes everything he has (and even things he doesn't have, like some fingers) to Stannis.

I took Stannis' comment in the show to mean more along the line of:

"I [and my 5000 troops] cannot defeat my brother [and 100,000 troops that should be mine] in the field."

I think it shows that while Stannis is a very capable commander, he is not stupid. He is a realist. In the book, doesn't Stannis want to defeat Renly in single combat? This goes along the same lines. He knows his army is no match for Renly's.

Episode 3 is Catelyn discussing peace terms with Renly when he gets the news about the siege of Storms End, then Stannis meets Renly in episode 4, and episode 5 suggests that the shadowbaby will be the capper to episode 4. I think they're going to blend the second shadowbaby in with the first and have Davos row Melisandre over as she gives birth to the one that kills Renly.

Thanks. That makes sense. The killing of Renly and the capture of Storms End can be blended into one sequence to move the plot along, with little to no draw backs. I wonder if Edric Storm is gonna be brought into the story. Much like Stannis' daughter, I don't think it would be an important omission in the grand scheme of the show. Really all he did was create a mild conflict between Stannis' duty and Melisandre's desires and magic. So after they meet in the field, Renly retires to Storms End. Simple enough...just move his army closer to Storms End. Why would a fancy boy like Renly sleep in a tent when he was a nice comfy castle near by. Davos takes Melisandre into Storms End to kill Renly, instead of the castellan (sp?). I buy it.

I am in the camp that had no problem at all with Stannis and Mel getting it on. I think it was heavily implied in many places in the books.

I am trying to recall the timeline. Stannis should be meeting/killing Renly in the next episode? That will probably be the ending of episode 3. But when does Stannis take Stormsend? Is it right after he kills off Renly? If so, maybe they needed a little bit of time in between Stannis' encounters with Mel, since it drains him so much.... I do hope HBO makes it very apparent that the shadow babies look like Stannis. I seem to recall Catlyn remembering that what she saw kill Renly had "Stannis' shadow".....

I also remember thinking in ADWD during Mel's POV chapters, when she is talking about glamors and such, that she needs things from people to work her magic, whether its bones from armor, or the "seed" of her king. I think that was the final nail in the coffin for me to confirm what she had done to make the shadow babies in previous books.

What I didn't like... -Yara Greyjoy. I absolutely DO NOT mean the actress, she's great. I hate the name change to Yara. Asha Greyjoy and Osha are different names and hardly confusing, and does it even matter since Osha is leaving at the end of this season?... she is leaving I hope. And that they are not going to change it to keep her around. Also on a side-note. Is anyone else worried that Ramsay Bolton hasn't been cast yet, or the Reeds? These characters are vital to the stories for Bran and Theon, and in Ramsay's case much of ADwD and the following books. Episode 8 is titled The Prince of Winterfell, so hopefully we'll see "Reek" then, or hear about him beforehand. LotN

From what I have heard, Osha will be replacing the Reeds in Bran's storyline. I don't like it, because I grew very fond of the Reeds. But I do understand it was simply about $$. Osha has the "Old God" knowledge that the Reeds brought to Bran. She has experience north of the Wall that the Reeds did not. The only thing I worry about is who will take Rickon? My gut says Maester Luwin will take Rickon and Shaggydog on their path, with Osha, Hodor, and Bran going together.

Not sure if Ramsay has been cast yet, but he better be an uber psycho....

How is what we saw different from the book? Stannis isn't acting out of lust (rewatch the scene; the moment Melisandre disrobes, Stannis moves to put a damn table debtween them) - Melisandre says here's how you're going to win, and then tells him she'll give him a son to get him past his marriage vows. Look, as Ran points out this sex act had to happen. And what we saw was something that was couched in terms of duty and a reluctantly embraced religion and a huge amount of awkwardness. That's Stannis!

Dead on IMHO. In the books, I seem to remember thinking that Stannis had sex with Mel the night before (or right before) Mel goes with Davos into Stormsend. I think there was some alluding to it, but don't really recall (ordered everyone out of his tent except Mel, and yada yada). So HBO moved it up an episode....it is still based on Mel needing his "seed" to birth the shadow baby, to get Stannis the men he needs in battle. This was not about lust for Stannis, this was about duty.

As far as Shireen and the "still born" comments, IDK know for sure if HBO really sees the value in casting (paying for) an actress to play Stannis' daughter. Does she ever move the plot of the series forward? Maybe the greyscale stuff, but that could easily be his wife with greyscale. If you recall episode 1 on the beach, after Stannis gets his fiery sword, he starts to charge off the beach. He stops, and turns back to retrieve his wife. ONLY his wife. There was no child with them. I do think Shireen has been scrapped, and I for one will not shed a tear for that "omission".

I have read the books. I love the books. But I am not in the camp that gets upset with every little change that HBO makes. One thing you have to keep in mind is how GRRM wrote the books. Everything we see in the books is through a character POV. Sometimes those POVs slant how you see a character. Shae is a great example. We really only see Shae through Tyrion's eyes. Tyrion always saw her as loyal to him. But in the end, we find out that she was not how Tyrion saw her, she was loyal to herself, and when she got a chance to better her lot, she took it. I like that HBO is bringing out the true characters in people for the show.

I also don't mind the changes with Joh so far. We all know Jon is a do gooder. So on screen, HBO has Jon see Craster give a child to the Others, instead of having Gilly tell it to us. Shows are meant to be visual. Too much dialogue losers the viewers. In the end, we get to the same point (which is knowing what Craster is doing). And I am sure Mormont will tell him to shut his whole about it....that everyone in the NW already knew it....that sometimes its not right vs. wrong, good vs. evil....that sometimes you have to choose your battles. All of these things are part of Jon's growth in the books, and HBO is keeping with the spirit of Jon's character, even if they are deviating from how GRRM did it.

Same goes for Stannis. So he desires a son. Is a bastard son better than a crippled daughter? In the mind of a warrior, I bet it is. We don't have the luxury of hundreds of pages to develop Stannis' iron will. And, back to my original point, Stannis' iron will is developed throught Davos' POV. When we see Stannis through other POVs, like Jon's later in the series, his will is not so iron, is it? He will make Jon a legit Stark, but only if Jon agrees to his deal. Doesn't sound like such an iron will.

The way they are focusing on Ros, I think that Ros will be the one who will be forced to marry Ramsay in the show as fake Arya.

Because Ros will be able to be passed off as a teenage girl? Don't see that happening.....

I think the scene accomplished quite a lot, actually. It shows that Bran is still in Winterfell, that his family is gone, that he wants to do/be something/somewhere else, that many men have left the north due to the war, that the war is not only affecting the south, it reminds us of Stark's position as liege lord, and it serves as a segue to the wolf stuff, which in turn is nicely followed by the scene with Osha, Hodor and Bran.

I think it also shows a nice contrast to Joffrey....Bran is thoughtful, even as a child, while Joffrey is petulant and sinister. I definitely miss the Reed's already. Their speech to Bran, declaring their loyalty, was one of the most moving dialogues in the book.

while you guys are all trading direwolves nitpicks... can we talk for a second about Craster? just like Shae is clearly written as a Sand Snake, Craster is now clearly Manse. No really, look at him again - instead of Late Lord Frey the remix we get this big healthy clean guy who speaks like he's in a radio-play. Thats Manse ( in my head at least when reading books) through and through! .... at this rate, they'll have to up it up a notch and Manse will just be Sherlock or The Master

I didn't like the HBO craster, but I definitely don't see Mance there. I picture Mance being slim and trim, with some charisma....almost like a long lost Stark. I did picture Craster is much dirtier, both in appearance and action.

I would have liked the direwolves to look more harsh/ferocious than just a normal CG enlarged wolf. Perhaps with fur that clumps together making the fur look like triangular scales, kind of like we see on the direwolf head and neck that is on the HBO clothing and on some ppls avatars etc... I would have liked to see bigger teeth too. CG tools are quite mature by now and there should be enough people skilled with them to at least do more than enlarge a normal wolf in a way that doesnt blow the budget. But oh well... its done now. Im not too upset by it though.

I am a bit confused. Where did GRRM ever describe HIS version of direwolves as anything other than really big versions of regular wolves? This isn't a horror filck. This isn't a video game. IMHO, HBO is depicting the direwolves exactly has GRRM describes them in his books.

Totally agree on Craster. He was nothing like what I pictured. He seemed more like an angry old farmer than some disgusting incestuous pedophile.

The thought of HBO replacing Dario with the bloodrider may make some sense. That may explain that "moment" with Dany.... [Edited for potential spoiler]

Same could be said about the absence of the Blackfish (although that is the first I heard about him being dropped by HBO). I was really hoping to see the Blackfish kick ass on screen. [edited for potential spoiler]

And the Reed kids being gone is probably the biggest problem I have with HBO's presentation so far. There are some big implications here. [edited for potential spoiler]

[edited] Sorry for any potential spoilers.

So, has it been concluded that HBO is doing away with the wonder twins Reed kids, and replacing their role with the wildling woman?

And has anyone figured out why HBO is making such a big deal over Ros? What are they planning to do with her, since they have built her up way beyond what I remember from the books.