noSer Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 I don't think it would be that easy to just to make the former Hand of the King disappear without an explanation.I suppose he could have him murdered, but theres still Bronn and whoever is loyal to him to deal with, he could buy them all off but still would require explanation of Tyrions dead body.If it was back on CR, Tywin could get away with more but this is KL, where more eyes that aren't Lannister loyal are watching.Bloodraven disappeared from Hand to the Wall easy enough. Who would stop Tywin from banishing Tyrion? Cersei once again screwed up by choosing the dumbest course of action possible. One could make the case that she alone has crippled her family so badly that they may never recover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaarioKnowsBest Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 Bloodraven disappeared from Hand to the Wall easy enough. Who would stop Tywin from banishing Tyrion? Cersei once again screwed up by choosing the dumbest course of action possible. One could make the case that she alone has crippled her family so badly that they may never recover.I haven't read the novellas, how easy was it really? The story I heard was that he was put in prison for something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minstral Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 I haven't read the novellas, how easy was it really? The story I heard was that he was put in prison for something. he was imprisoned by Maekar and was sent to the Wall by the next king, Aegon the fifth. Maekar reigned for I think 13 years, and BR was Maekar's uncle so not a young man to start with, so it would seem he would be at the end of his years when Egg released him. This isn't in the Dunk and Egg series though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaarioKnowsBest Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 So he didn't just dissapear to the Wall after being Hand right? The king put him in prison, is a reason given? Other than because he didn't like him. I would think even the king needs to trump up some charges at least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asha Greyjoy:Feminist Icon Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 Sure, but Tywin is all about preserving the power of the family. Accusing Tyrion weakens the family. Joff is dead. Tywin has to think about those remaining family members.…Then send him to Casterly Rock, or on a trip to the Free Cities like he always wanted, or something. Anything really to get him out of KL and out of sight.That reminds me. We get this passage in ADWD and it's something that has plagued me ever since:Gerion Lannister had set sail for Valyria when Tyrion was eighteen, intent on recovering the lost ancestral blade of House Lannister and any other treasures that might have survived the Doom. Tyrion had wanted desperately to go with them, but his lord father had dubbed the voyage a “fool’s quest,” and forbidden him to take part.And perhaps he was not so wrong. Almost a decade had passed since the Laughing Lion headed out from Lannisport, and Gerion had never returned. The men Lord Tywin sent to seek after him had traced his course as far as Volantis, where half his crew had deserted him and he had bought slaves to replace them. No free man would willingly sign aboard a ship whose captain spoke openly of his intent to sail into the Smoking Sea.Why not just let Tyrion(TY) tag along with Gerry(GE)? If Tywin wanted that sword(VS) so damn bad, then a successful recovery by his not-dead-son/brother is a net positive. With the return of two Lannister men who'd adventured into the Smoking Sea and profited, it ends up (1VS+1TY+1GE = "All for the glory of House Lannister!")Now, should Tyrion not ultimately survive a trip that sees Gerion returning with the lost Valerian Steel, I'd assume Tywin would still really view it as a net positive...the hated dwarf son dies a hero's death in the service of some fucking sword. And if that's the kinda thing you're into, then (1VS+1GE -1TY = "All for the glory of House Lannister!")Should the mission fail, with Tyrion just joining his uncle in some Smoking Seas shipwreck, I still would expect this to be a positive for Tywin. It would result in (-1TY-1GE-1VS = "Well, at least it solved that whole dwarf son thing. Gotta spin out some valorous story of heroic death, but GMP can probably handle that. Now where was I...oh yes! Back to Chataya's for some private and psychologically fucked up whoring. All for the glory of House Lannister!" Whistles off down the tunnel.)Honestly, I see no downside for Tywin. So why forbid it? Unless we just don't have all the info re: Gerry. Or I'm missing something somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodsteel bitterraven Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 It is possible that Tywin actually belives that Tyrion did murder Joffrey. He did and he wasn't the only one. Even Pod thought Tyrion was guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 That reminds me. We get this passage in ADWD and it's something that has plagued me ever since:Why not just let Tyrion(TY) tag along with Gerry(GE)?If Tywin wanted that sword(VS) so damn bad, then a successful recovery by his not-dead-son/brother is a net positive. With the return of two Lannister men who'd adventured into the Smoking Sea and profited, it ends up (1VS+1TY+1GE = "All for the glory of House Lannister!")Now, should Tyrion not ultimately survive a trip that sees Gerion returning with the lost Valerian Steel, I'd assume Tywin would still really view it as a net positive...the hated dwarf son dies a hero's death in the service of some fucking sword. And if that's the kinda thing you're into, then (1VS+1GE -1TY = "All for the glory of House Lannister!") Should the mission fail, with Tyrion just joining his uncle in some Smoking Seas shipwreck, I still would expect this to be a positive for Tywin. It would result in (-1TY-1GE-1VS = "Well, at least it solved that whole dwarf son thing. Gotta spin out some valorous story of heroic death, but GMP can probably handle that. Now where was I...oh yes! Back to Chataya's for some private and psychologically fucked up whoring. All for the glory of House Lannister!" Whistles off down the tunnel.)Honestly, I see no downside for Tywin. So why forbid it? Unless we just don't have all the info re: Gerry. Or I'm missing something somewhere. Whistles off down the tunnel.Whistles off down the tunnel. :lmao: Bless. Seriously though, I think Tywin did love Tyrion, even though he didn't like him. As for Joff choking, Tyrion really didn't help himself by pouring away the leftover wine in front of witnesses. Chances are Tywin did believe him guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitsOfBrains Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 I think the answer to this is seen by what happens after. Tywin convenes a trial with Mace Tyrell and The Red Viper. This was a show of unity as if to say, "we are all together on this one, there are no divisions in our alliance." Someone had to take the fall for it, especially after Cersei says publicly Joffrey was poisoned. Everyone at the feast was someones bannerman or a fool of some kind. By offering up Tyrion, almost as a sacrificial lamb on the alter of the alliance, Tywin wants the other lords to believe he is completely dedicated to their continued cooperation. Plus if the story was Joffrey just choked on a piece of pie, people would say the "Baratheon" kings are cursed by the gods. First one gets killed by a pig, second one chokes to death at his wedding feast. The small folk would come to the conclusion the gods hate them. As a bonus Tywin gets rid of Tyrion. Also from a purely circumstantial evidence position, Tyrion looks guilty as hell. They probably all thought he did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tynned Lannistark Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 It is possible that Tywin actually belives that Tyrion did murder Joffrey. He may have. But I dont think he would care. whether Tyrion is actually guilty and whether he is found guilty in a trial are two different things. Tywin is not the kind of guy to care that an injustice was being done, or that a guilty man walks away. The only thing he cares about is the status and glory of the Lannister name and whatever decision he made about Tyrion has first to do with this. My take on that is different. I think Tywin is smart enough to understand that one of the other houses might be behind this (The Dornish or Tyrell). Pehraps he prefers to find a scapegoat to prevent ruining his plans with them. He was likely to get to the bottom of this, and get revenge later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bratchild Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 For what it is worth, I think that Tywin may not have really cared if Tyrion was guilty. If his son was guilty, he could be carted off to the Wall, name Tommen, Myrcella or a nephew as heir and if he had Sansa, marry her to someone more willing to rape her. Even better,it satisfy's Cersei. So all in all, a win for him as he gets rid of a son he seems to despise and can control Tommen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 His first priority was keeping the Tyrell/Lannister alliance secure. Once Cersei put the idea out there that he had been poisoned Mace wouldn't forget it (his grandchild would no longer be King and his daughter could have been killed). If Tywin had covered the autopsy up and it had ever been discovered the alliance would take a big hit. In Tywins mind it was not worth it to save his son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antler's Fury Posted December 6, 2013 Author Share Posted December 6, 2013 Why run away and be so afraid if you don't suspect a murder? I didn't really get why they ran. I mean, Sansa ran and they used this as evidence that she was responsible. Why run, even if you do think the king is being poisoned? If you're not guilty, what are you afraid of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaarioKnowsBest Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Sansa was going to run anyway wasn't she, even if Joff didn't die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antler's Fury Posted December 6, 2013 Author Share Posted December 6, 2013 Sansa was going to run anyway wasn't she, even if Joff didn't die. Yeah but apart from her why did anyone run away? Regardless of how they thought Joffrey died, why run away? If you're not guilty of anything, why run? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaarioKnowsBest Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Yeah but apart from her why did anyone run away? Regardless of how they thought Joffrey died, why run away? If you're not guilty of anything, why run?I can't remember who else ran?Tyrion ran because he was found guilty by trial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antler's Fury Posted December 6, 2013 Author Share Posted December 6, 2013 I can't remember who else ran?Tyrion ran because he was found guilty by trial. When Joff was choking, everyone in the room aside from the KG and the Tyrells panicked and fled. David Selig sees this as evidence that they thought he was poisoned, but I'm not sure why, given that regardless of how you thought Joff died, there's no reason to flee the room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaarioKnowsBest Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 When Joff was choking, everyone in the room aside from the KG and the Tyrells panicked and fled. David Selig sees this as evidence that they thought he was poisoned, but I'm not sure why, given that regardless of how you thought Joff died, there's no reason to flee the room.Idk, I suppose could be taken either way.I can certainly see why the king choking for any reason would cause panic. Either by accident or by murder, I can see either way causing a big panic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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