Why Didn't Tywin say Joffrey Choked?

[Minsc]

Tywin says his maesters performed the autopsy on his orders, and they found no obstruction. We don't know that there were any witnesses, and I doubt this sort of thing was done in public. Even so, Tywin could still put some pie down Joff's throat before the throat was opened. If he wanted to, he had the influence to make the lie stick.

Tywin shoving food down Joffrey's throat is noticable, nor is there reason to believe Tywin can just silence all the maesters investigating.

He is hardly all powerful.

[Antler's Fury]

Tywin shoving food down Joffrey's throat is noticable, nor is there reason to believe Tywin can just silence all the maesters investigating.

He is hardly all powerful.

He doesn't have to be. Privately tampering with Joff's corpse and silencing Lannister maesters with bribes/threats are easily within Tywin's capabilities. If they are his personal maesters, then they'll do as commanded "for the good of the realm."

[Iona]

He doesn't have to be. Privately tampering with Joff's corpse and silencing Lannister maesters with bribes/threats are easily within Tywin's capabilities. If they are his personal maesters, then they'll do as commanded "for the good of the realm."

Maesters, hah ... if this scenario would have happened, Tywin would have had Pycelle do the autopsy and he would have said pretty much anything Tywin told him to. :D

[Minsc]

He doesn't have to be. Privately tampering with Joff's corpse and silencing Lannister maesters with bribes/threats are easily within Tywin's capabilities. If they are his personal maesters, then they'll do as commanded "for the good of the realm."

It is unlikely that only Lannister maesters would view the body, instead the Tyrells would have their maesters assist and they would likely notice the truth.

Moreover, maester excluding pycelle don't blindly heed Tywin's will.

[Antler's Fury]

It is unlikely that only Lannister maesters would view the body, instead the Tyrells would have their maesters assist and they would likely notice the truth.

Why would Tywin let the Tyrell maesters do it when he has his own, and Pycelle?

Moreover, maester excluding pycelle don't blindly heed Tywin's will.

Hence the bribes or threats. If the Grand Maester himself can be corrupted, then surely lower ranking ones can too. How many maesters are even required to cut open a kid's throat? Two is more than enough, and one was most probably Pycelle.

[Raven in Winter]

Why would Tywin let the Tyrell maesters do it when he has his own, and Pycelle?

Being the father of Queen Margery, Joff's wife, he would his maesters to be there to see the body too. Especially if he thought his daughter was endangered. Tywin isn't the only one with a rather large army you know.

[Antler's Fury]

Being the father of Queen Margery, Joff's wife, he would his maesters to be there to see the body too. Especially if he thought his daughter was endangered. Tywin isn't the only one with a rather large army you know.

But he wouldn't think his daughter was in danger until after it was determined that Joff was poisoned, not before. Mace only thought Marg was in danger after it was thought that Tyrion poisoned Joff after the autopsy. And even then, Tywin could have slipped some pigeon pie down Joff's throat beforehand.

[Minstral]

So conspiracy grows then... and so does the difficulty to cover it up.

[Antler's Fury]

So conspiracy grows then... and so does the difficulty to cover it up.

It's limited to Tywin and a handful, not more than two I'd imagine, maesters, one of which would be Pycelle.

[Thendel]

I wouldn't put that much stock in Alerie's words. One, she's obviously trying to comfort Margaery, and two, there is nothing that suggests she is of more than average intelligence and/or influence.

Joffrey's death bears all the marks of a case of poisoning, and people would have believed that Joffrey's death was not an accident, no matter what Tywin would have said afterwards. Why would Tywin try to spin a tale that no one is going to believe, especially when he has the opportunity to quickly bury the case entirely, what with Tyrion proving the perfect suspect?

[DaarioKnowsBest]

He would still have to silence Cersei regardless, or else it defeats the purpose of painting a perfect picture of House Lannister.

[Minstral]

It's limited to Tywin and a handful, not more than two I'd imagine, maesters, one of which would be Pycelle.

Not when Cersei screams at the top of her lungs "SIEZE THE IMP". There is an opportunity of 3 seconds lost, and like I said it could look like Tywin was complicit if his hand in covering up the indecent is seen. We see Cersei over playing her hand in AFFC and look where that got her.

[Raven in Winter]

But he wouldn't think his daughter was in danger until after it was determined that Joff was poisoned, not before. Mace only thought Marg was in danger after it was thought that Tyrion poisoned Joff after the autopsy. And even then, Tywin could have slipped some pigeon pie down Joff's throat beforehand.

Wasn't Cersei screaming "Murder! Poison!" right after Joff started turning purple and died? That should have been enough to get Mace concerned and involved. Margery was queen only as long as Joff was alive. With Joff now dead Mace has a vested interest in the truth of what actually happened.

[Antler's Fury]

I wouldn't put that much stock in Alerie's words. One, she's obviously trying to comfort Margaery, and two, there is nothing that suggests she is of more than average intelligence and/or influence.

I'm not saying that she herself has authority, only that she reflected the general consensus at the time: Joff was choking. That's why the Tyrells and KG near him were trying to make it easier for him to breathe by pounding his back and opening his shirt.

Joffrey's death bears all the marks of a case of poisoning, and people would have believed that Joffrey's death was not an accident, no matter what Tywin would have said afterwards. Why would Tywin try to spin a tale that no one is going to believe, especially when he has the opportunity to quickly bury the case entirely, what with Tyrion proving the perfect suspect?

Everyone believed it until Cersei said otherwise. That's why the KG were so confused when she asked them to arrest Tyrion; they thought Joff had choked.

He would still have to silence Cersei regardless, or else it defeats the purpose of painting a perfect picture of House Lannister.

Or just tell her that the maesters found pie in his throat.

Not when Cersei screams at the top of her lungs "SIEZE THE IMP". There is an opportunity of 3 seconds lost, and like I said it could look like Tywin was complicit if his hand in covering up the indecent is seen. We see Cersei over playing her hand in AFFC and look where that got her.

..after which Tywin "confirms" with the maesters that Joffrey did in fact choke, and Tyrion is released.

Wasn't Cersei screaming "Murder! Poison!" right after Joff started turning purple and died?

No, she only says "Noooo, Father help him, someone help him, my son, my son..."

[Castellan]

I think if the Queen Regent points a finger and demands an arrest in front of all those witnesses something has to happen.

[Djinn]

Because Lions do not choke! Only sheep!

Seriously, it's just another case of Cersei making everything worse, nothing new there.

[MindLikeWarp]

The King died from choking? That sounds like the work of the Gods...which would lead many to believe Joffrey was the incestuous abomination that Stannis says he is. There had to be a murderer. Joffrey and his siblings legitimacy is already in question.

[David Selig]

I reread the scene, and just as I remembered it it doesn't seem to me that everyone thought it was an accidental choking and not poisoning.

"Half the wedding guests were on their feet, some shoving at each other for a better view, others rushing for the doors in their haste to get away."

In the rear of the throne room scuffling had broken out around the doors, and the guests were trampling on each other. Ser Addam’s gold cloaks moved in to restore order. Guests were rushing headlong out into the night, some weeping, some stumbling and retching, others white with fear. It occurred to Tyrion belatedly that it might be wise to leave himself.

That's before Cersei accused Tyrion. Why run away and be so afraid if you don't suspect a murder?

Tyrion himself immediately suspects poisoning. So did Pycelle who was screaming for someone to bring him his potions, which would be of no use in a case of choking.

[Srslyjc]

That's some pretty suspicious choking...

[Ser Onaventea Helms]

I'm pretty sure that Tywin knew that his son hadn't killed Joffrey, but allowed the following events to happen anyway. The autopsy would've revealed no actual food in his throat anyway.

The real question is: was he honestly going to let him join the Night's Watch? Was this just another lie he fabricated to try survive, or was this his original contention?

I mean, if he had his son executed in public it would bring shame to House Lannister, something that he absolutely hates. But at the same time, if he sent him to the Wall, surely Cersei would try do something reckless. Not to mention I'm sure many of the people who thought Tyrion to be guilty would think Tywin's decision was weak.