SerBarristantheOld Posted February 10, 2014 Author Share Posted February 10, 2014 Dam thats weird. Nothing about incest ? Are you some catskill hillbillly ? No. I just think that their is nothing "evil" about their love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasporio Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Yeah i just think the same about rape and cannibalism. Its all right and natural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasporio Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Ok im ironic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
complexphoenix Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 It wasn't the abuse that made Cersei hate Robert, it was him saying Lyanna's name on their wedding night. She was more bothered by him wounding her pride than by him wounding her body. Most of what we get from her POV in AFFC is her being in denial and lying to herself, demonizing the husband she hated, making him out to be worse than he was and being in total denial about the role of her own behavior in sending her marriage to hell in a handbasket. The main reason she doesn't do things as blatantly horrible as Ramsay or Gregor is because she's a woman and has been socialized to get what she wants with sex, manipulation and lies instead of physical violence. If she were a man she'd be a thug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Cersei is a horrible person with insecurity issues. If she has balls and not a vagina and was the heir she would still be a horrible person with insecurity issues. A Joffrey. Which is bassically an extension of her deep desires. And we see how she handles power when she gets it. Her problem is not the fact that women in her society can't have as much power as men but that she is too power hungry and too unempathetic and cruel towards other people especially non Lannisters. She thinks the moral and legal rules don't apply to her and her family and she destroys her family in the proccess. Having Tywin as a father probably was the bad nurture part. All this does not change that she does suffer some shit that she shouldn't because of women's role in society but I don't think that is the central element of Cersei. A nature/nurture combination resulted in this power hungry, manipulative, extremely bigoted, cruel, sociopathic person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasporio Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 :agree:Tywin ruthlessness had some part, and her will to be her father's true heir, but she never tried to uplift hersel. Always complaining she received no proper political skills, but in 15 years she never tried to take a part in the small council. Robert didnt give a shit about, so he would probably let her be his proxy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 He was heir to Casterly Rock, while I was to be sold to some stranger like a horse, to be ridden whenever he liked, and cast aside in time for a younger filly. Jaime's lot was to be glory and power, while mine was birth and moonblood." Translation: "I was born a woman." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
complexphoenix Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Cersei was basically sold as a brood mare. That does explain why she turned out as she did. No it doesn't. Almost all highborn girls in Westeros are basically sold as brood mares, yet Catelyn, Daenerys, Elia Martell, Olenna Redwyne, Alerie Hightower, Dorna Swyft, Fat Walda Frey, Roslin Frey, and indeed the CLEAR MAJORITY of women in arranged marriages manage to make the best of it and live reasonably happy lives. That doesn't excuse Westerosi society for having the institution of arranged marriage - some women, notably Lysa and the many wives of Walder Frey, get hurt very badly by it - but most women do fine. It seems to me that Cersei deliberately sabotaged her marriage and would never be happy with any husband who wasn't her perfect little boytoy/doormat who did whatever she wanted and never tried to think for himself. Robert could have had a happy marriage if he'd been wed to a woman who was willing to make an honest effort to make it work - I can easily see him and Catelyn being happy together, for example. But Cersei? There's a reason she could only love Jaime - he was handsome and obedient and never refused her anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasporio Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 And was basically her. She cannot love anything but her.But please we're off-topic now.Lets focus on what's great about cersei... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnief Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Since this is the 'defend Cersei' thread, I will concede that being a woman in Westeros truly sucks. That being said, other women in Westeros certainly manage to navigate the constraints of their gender better, (Margaery, Olenna, etc.) and/or are nicer people. But I think Cersei's growing up in the woman-less CR, left her without guidance on how to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrowsBeforeHoes Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 As you can see Cersei is pretty indefensible. I don't have much to add here, but if she actually learns from this whole everyone seeing her naked thing I'll be impressed. She has to know she can no longer wield power after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 She was nice enough to build a fleet of ships for Aurane Waters seriously this is one of the most generous acts in the entire series Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnief Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Also Cersei *did* recognize how fucked up it was for St. Baelor, to have had his own sisters imprisoned simply for being beautiful-of course taking it out on baby Tyrion was pretty indefensible, but yeah, I understood where the anger was from... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasporio Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Cersei/ beliebers fans must be sleeping right now. So not so much people to frantically says how much she's cool and clever and loving.What a pity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerBarristantheOld Posted February 10, 2014 Author Share Posted February 10, 2014 Cersei was going to let Ned go back to the wall and not kill him. That surely counts as a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
complexphoenix Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Cersei was going to let Ned go back to the wall and not kill him. That surely counts as a good thing. Yes, she was going to strip him of his castle, his wife and family, all his power and comforts and privileges, and send him to freeze his ass off for the rest of his life because he found out that she was a traitor who banged her brother and had his babies. How incredibly sweet of her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerBarristantheOld Posted February 10, 2014 Author Share Posted February 10, 2014 Yes, she was going to strip him of his castle, his wife and family, all his power and comforts and privileges, and send him to freeze his ass off for the rest of his life because he found out that she was a traitor who banged her brother and had his babies. How incredibly sweet of her. This is the same man who wanted her gone because of patriarchal beliefs. I would say she was more than fair. Its a kindness. Most people would execute Ned in that situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Cersei was going to let Ned go back to the wall and not kill him. That surely counts as a good thing. Only if he accepted her bastard son as king, allowed his daughter to marry and be beaten by said bastard, and promise to allow her to get away with murdering Robert yup the woman is a saint, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasporio Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 This is the same man who wanted her gone because of patriarchal beliefs. I would say she was more than fair. Its a kindness. Most people would execute Ned in that situation. Patriarcal belives forbid incest, okay to me. But even matriarcal societies forbi it too. Wrong argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnief Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Also it's worth noting that Balon Greyjoy, (who actually WAS guilty of treason,) was allowed to keep his Lordship and estate-he had to surrender Theon as a hostage, but Theon was treated more like a foster ward than a prisoner all those years. Ned who was innocent, was treated far more harshly from the get-go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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