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Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren

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  1. If I am Doran I will send more agents of mine to work with Daenerys and tell her that the fact they are working for Doran is a secret for now, because they don't want to be destroyed by the king of westeros. And reveal how Dorne did help her and her brother while trying to avoid the wrath of the Iron Throne. Also explain how Viserys behaving as he did made them reconsider of helping him more. Talk about Elia Martel and what Tywin did to the Targyaryen/martell children. With my agents aiding Daenerys since the second book events, she will be more positively predisposed to an alliance. Considering her dragons, it is worth investing more. I will also focus on expanding my military strength in the years of peace and yes I would agree to go along with Jon Arryn. A bit of a hindsight play in part, but have Oberyn poison Littlefinger and Tyrion after Stannis kills Renly. Then have Oberyn leave King's landing and send a different emissary. Littlefinger helped the Tyrell - Lannister alliance and without him the realm would be more divided at that point. Stannis taking Kingslanding with significant casualties while the Lannister and reach armies remain at play would weaken the realm. Then Oberyn and dornishmen guard is sent to Essos to join with Daenerys. A bit like Varys taking out rivals. Plus, you got Myrcella, and so you can play this as a card when Stannis invades if you wish. Which would entice other players to an alliance and marriage. Propose the alliance with Daenerys earlier and have Oberyn pitch the marriage and advertise Quentin's qualities as the way for her to return after gaining the Unsullied army. Before she is too entangled in the messes in Essos. Then if she does get involved and gains more followers, she will be tied with Dorne. And make a direct play for the golden company. Eventually send Oberyn there to have him take a high position as a leader in Daenery's army. Try to win over Barristan. Try to have all westerosi exiles including Jorah and Golden company, influence Daenerys to use her dragons to return. Also explain how you got Myrcella a a card. Have Oberyn will try to gain more men of Daenerys followers to be under his leadership. Explain to Arianne a small part of what you are doing so she doesn't interfere telling her to tell none and promising her to succeed as ruler of Dorne. So, I just followed parts of Doran's plan, prioritizing revenge a bit less and more the longer game. If you were to prioritise revenge more, have Oberyn poison Tywin with costipation killing poison and leave to follow the plan I explained. Have Dornishmen assassins kill the mountain. Oberyn is worth too much to fight the mountain in a battle to the death.
  2. Throwing morals out the table as the OP insists: I will go with a modified part of Euron's plan which seems better than the alternatives here and in the series. So make a similar pitch. Euron's excessive ambition might end up costing the Ironborn but his way will also make them a more considerable force. So I would have a less arrogant strategy than controlling Westeros. Order to weaken the north and raid/burn and not caring about retaining it, but undermining it, for what comes next and use as few men as possible for would be needed elsewhere. Capture the Shield Islands and Arbor Islands, and then focus on sending the iron fleet to ally with Daenerys Targaryen. Presumably I don't have dragon binding horn. Daenerys is the one leader which is likely to be willing to allow us to grab a bigger slice of Westeros, especially as we help conquer it with her dragons and dothraki and Unsullied. And our fleet being used to carry Daenery's army. Trying to get her to marry me would be a play I would follow. Avoid Euron's excessive cruelties of course, and have lower ambitions than capturing all of Westeros. Daenerys would be at this stage more willing to compromise with bad behavior such as raiding that would be beneficial in her conquering. And if after we have succeeded using the old way in creating a larger kingdom, we have to abandon it, then it will be a less bitter pill for the Ironborn to swallow. If I have the dragon binding horn then there are more things that could be done. Indeed, allying with Daenerys is just stage one of what must be a more complicated strategy. Advice to gather strength, raid some of the free cities of Essos, and put allies in charge, and use Dragons to crush resistance and make examples of those who would oppose us. Develop the diplomacy game. Put the smarter more literate part of the Ironborn in charge of recruiting from westeros others to help them build a more significant diplomatic force. Then as we are getting ready to invade to try to influence houses in Westeros to break their allegiance from the Iron throne, or their own great houses, promising to elevate smaller houses up, or retain their lands. Promise more land and wealth and that the Ironborn will be a significant force in the new Westeros. Try to organize marriage alliances with Ironborn elites and other houses. Raid, conquest and diplomacy to gain more land, to settle the Ironborn in parts of Westeros, ideally riverlands or the reach, and to then the Ironborn in charge of the people in other teritories not to be primarily settled but controlled. For the Ironborn to become a more considerable force we would also have to demographically expand, so invest in sanitation techniques, and promote fertility. In a hundred or so years the Ironborn slice of Westeros would be a considerably stronger and richer and more numerous place. There is also the issue of the Others I avoided here. Daenerys dragons are going to be useful to have around. Being islanders and sailors and controlling primarily territory nearer to the coasts and islands will result in us avoiding more of the damage than most of the other great houses. The other strategies that avoid sending the fleet to Daenerys might in fact end up getting the world destroyed by the Others. The most optimistic scenario would have the Greyjoys as the new other half of the royal family and a Greyjoy/Targaryen dynasty.
  3. How many stabbings were there in this episode? That many stabbings out of ten.
  4. I found Shireen dying to be extremely sad, almost show red wedding levels. She was extremely likeable, by far the most likeable character in the show. And most likeable characters are already dead, so its knife in the wound. And unlike the red wedding in the show, not something I already experienced from the books.
  5. Alliser Thorne seems to be Jon's main opposition, and one of the few notable characters along with Olly in the NW. He seems to be taking Bowen Marsh role of being there and complaining about whatever Jon does. I would be extremely surprised if he isn't the ringleader who starts the stabbing Jon Snow. If not him, who? Now Olie might also do it but as you say it will be weak if it is just him.
  6. 8/10 One of the better episodes, final scene with the High Septon was a 10/10, it was very satisfying to see confident Cersei lose and get locked up. Other than that, rest of the episode wasn't anything special although the other High Septon scene was good. Best part of this season so far is the High Septon and his actor and to a lesser extend Theon and his actor.
  7. Well it is in the books with Jeyne Poole, I don't trust them (or really most anyone) to make a better job and come with something more compelling for Theon over GRRM even if there are possible alternatives. Dark doesn't necessarily mean good but it worked as far as I am concerned. But yeah, it didn't have to be Sansa. I don't think Sansa here or Jeyne in the book is merely a victim in someone else's story though. Both are victims in their own right and their own suffering matters.
  8. Fix your quote. I am happy that I am not sick and tired of fictional suffering of characters with female genitalia making me emotionally invested and angry at the villains instead of angry at the writter. Theon is widely considered to have one of the best character arcs in the books, including him snapping out of it in part due to Jeyne's suffering, and again as with Jeyne's I found his personal struggle, drama, and suffering to be compelling. The show especially later on, is at best a poor imitation to the books, even when focusing on one of the better arcs of the fifth book, Theon's. But that is still one of the more interesting parts of this season. I doubt I would like these books so much without the tragedy in them that entails horrible things happening to good and gray people. And I found Ramsay to be a more compelling villain for how excessive his actions were. So I found the gratuity with Ramsay to be part of the point. It didn't work for you, but it did work for me. the trope of character suffering for compelling stories has been part of some of my favorite stories and character arcs. I am not sorry or particularly care that you are sick and tired of it, but I certainly respect the right for your opinion. But is nothing but that. The fact that you or even others, don't like something doesn't mean that I have to agree. So at this point, I think it is productive for everyone to share their different opinion on this and understand that the views of others will vary.
  9. I haven't commented on the show this season because it was as I said in the trailer thread, as the show goes further away from the book, it will be the worst season because the show runners aren't good enough. While, I will keep watching and it is certainly not unwatchable, the show doesn't excite me. However, this controversial episode is one of the better episodes of this season even if I am not sure how good it is and that is due to the final scene and the winterfell setting. I found Jeyne's and Theon's suffering in the books to be riveting and engaging stuff and emotionally affecting, and the same here with Theon and Sansa. Theon's actor in particular is doing a very good job. One of the few times in this season where I actually gave a damn and felt somewhat emotionally invested. Theon is probably the best character of the show right now and the one with the more interesting and less butchered from the books character arc.
  10. I didn't explain because I assumed everyone got them and the people running these forums didn't need me to enlighten them about it. Usually it is an error problem not allowing me to use the forums which doesn't seem to have anything to do with whether I am logged on or not. Error or loading offline version. Of course there are also some disabled features right now, but that is less of an issue for me.
  11. I am going to be an ass, but this forum has the most problems, the most often of any forum I visit. There are probably a big number of people using it, but still, no other big forum with a lot of traffic I have ever used had so many problems. And the issue isn't just about the problems that are happening just now.
  12. This episode exceeded my expectations, job well done. Tyrion and Cersei were mostly the stars of this episode but most everything with Stannis, Davos, Hound, Sansa was also pretty good.
  13. Best episode of the season. If only there was a way to create multiple Martins where we have one of them writing the books and the other all the episodes...
  14. 8.5/10 by far my favorite episode of the season. I voted for 9/10 as it is closer to that than 8 for me. Mostly for these: Theon Greyjoy scenes Yoren and Arya scenes Tyrion scenes (other than his scene with Shae) Most of the rest was not bad, there were somewhat good scenes too, but the above are my highlights, and pretty great. Shae's scenes are my least favorite.
  15. I agree that Stannis sleeps with Melisandre in the novels, but did you find that scene acceptable and in general Stannis portrayal acceptable? I think they should have showed Stannis differently in the show than they did and also provided more character development for him. Stannis in the books is Iron willed, very determined, has a very strong sense of believing in his moral code, has strong feelings of bitterness. And also he does not seem as lust obsessed (or obsessed about Melisandre giving his a son) as show Stannis. I don't think the tv show was very successful with its portrayal of Stannis.
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