KiDisaster Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I said earlier I'm clueless when it comes to balance at this game, I didn't think EP's role sounded that powerful. Nor did I think mine was that powerful. I also never thought about using it to find scum, as I already pointed out, because I am apparently as dumb as a fucking brick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kingmaker Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I'm RI.Monday lying does not make sense unless she is symp(and if we actually have 3 roles than I think setup is probably 3 killers and not 2 killers + 1 symp). KiD lying does not make sense unless he really has the role. Both being evil would still require KiD to have the role he claimed. Am I missing anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmit Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I cannot meta KiD or Monday. Is it possible they are working together as FM and claimed without thinking through the roles all the way? Scenario 1:They thought that Monday would claim, we'd lynch her, and it would make KiD CI. But what would have been the point of him claiming anything? In case he had been looked at by EP, he had a plausible action. He would claim he hadn't used it, then say the person he used it on was night killed? Why claim it was 2-shot? Maybe to get him through another day after she was dead? We are at 10. 2/8Lynch MondayEP is night killed (and KiD claims that EP was the person he sent his message to. We are at 8, 1/7Lynch King (KiD is asking for another day to prove)Pete is night killed We are at 6, 1/5, and KiD still cannot prove he innocent. We lynch; he is dead. Scenario 2: They hoped that we'd lynch KiD, and therefore CI Monday. Why would he claim? Because his claim is so outrageous that we couldn't possibly believe it and therefore lynch him first, thus CI-ing Monday, because she "found" a killer. And that actually makes sense with this exchange:unvoteWe can't lynch Kid with that claim(unnecesary, BTW, but props for you for inventing it) Someone please check my logic and see if it makes sense or if there are any gaping holes. This scenario again says to lynch Monday first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiDisaster Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I'm RI.Monday lying does not make sense unless she is symp(and if we actually have 3 roles than I think setup is probably 3 killers and not 2 killers + 1 symp). KiD lying does not make sense unless he really has the role. Both being evil would still require KiD to have the role he claimed.Am I missing anything? I can't have the role I claimed if I'm evil. It's a innocent only role. This post doesn't make much sense to me. See bolded: Wait...If I really have the role, what would I be lying about? Seriously, seriously confused by this entire post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmit Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 What's the status on the mass claim? I think BBmolla and KM are yet to claim. Does anybody mind if I claim after both of them? (This why we should have popcorned, which we had plenty of time to do -- the more suspected players are supposed to claim first, not almost last.) BB claimed RI yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiDisaster Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Monday and I can't be partners unless we haven't been communicating in the FM thread at all and/or are both braindead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kingmaker Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I can't have the role I claimed if I'm evil. It's a innocent only role. This post doesn't make much sense to me. See bolded: Wait...If I really have the role, what would I be lying about? Seriously, seriously confused by this entire post. I missed out it was innocent only :dense:Lying about not receiving message. Sorry if I wasn't clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiDisaster Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I missed out it was innocent only :dense:Lying about not receiving message. Sorry if I wasn't clear. Oh ok, I understand now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Graves Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Monday and I can't be partners unless we haven't been communicating in the FM thread at all and/or are both braindead.Monday is known to be very inventive and prone to gambits like this though.Why is Facebook watching our thread? :headexplodes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiDisaster Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Monday is known to be very inventive and prone to gambits like this though.Why is Facebook watching our thread? :headexplodes: The point is the "gambit" makes no sense. It's guaranteed to get us both lynched. If we're partners we fucked ourselves completely. If we're partners I would not have claimed anything, let you all lynch me and make her look VPI. That would have been the sensible, obvious play in that situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmit Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I can't have the role I claimed if I'm evil. It's a innocent only role. This post doesn't make much sense to me. See bolded: Wait...If I really have the role, what would I be lying about? Seriously, seriously confused by this entire post. But you haven't used it yet, and you could always say the person you used it on was night killed or they could be your FM partner and clear you. This role is by no means 100% fool proof unless two people get it and neither one of them could be FM partners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Graves Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 The point is the "gambit" makes no sense. It's guaranteed to get us both lynched. If we're partners we fucked ourselves completely. If we're partners I would not have claimed anything, let you all lynch me and make her look VPI. That would have been the sensible, obvious play in that situation.I know that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiDisaster Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 But you haven't used it yet, and you could always say the person you used it on was night killed or they could be your FM partner and clear you. This role is by no means 100% fool proof unless two people get it and neither one of them could be FM partners. What does this have to do with the post you quoted? And yes I know I could do that, which is why I need to be very careful that the person I pick is trustworthy and not likely to die tonight. Otherwise I die tomorrow and town is in a rough spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiDisaster Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I know that.... So you agree with my point that we cannot be partners unless we're brain dead then? Because your last post seemed to be disagreeing with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmit Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 The town isn't that bad off because one of you and Monday have to be evil. Monday is more likely (IMHO), and yes, there is good chance that we have to lynch you tomorrow, especially if she flips not-a-killer. But even if we do, that means we start day 5 with 6 players and only 1 FM. And yes, I do think you guys may be that braindead especially if you guys were trying to come up with something on the fly that would CI one of you. You yourself keep on saying that you are not that good at mafia, Pete says that this is a gambit that Monday would try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plessiez Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 BB claimed RI yesterday. Oh, right, "random innocent". Well, I'm RI too. Pretty obviously, I imagine (I wouldn't have tried to tell Tammy not to protect me otherwise, for one thing) but I wanted to claim last anyway to feel important. So we have the following claims:Monday ||| x-shot HeraldTheMalcolm ||| RIPetyr Baelish the Second ||| RIKiDisaster ||| 2-shot Hedge KnightEmmit ||| RIExpecto Patronum ||| 1-shot NAFinderSnowStorm ||| RIPlessiez ||| RIThe Kingmaker ||| RIBBMolla ||| RIAnd there must be an evil!Guard if both Monday and KiD are telling the truth. Plus who knows which other evil!roles.There is at least 1 FM left, probably at least 1 FM and a symp left, and possibly 2 FM left. Anything else means we whinge to Zar about balance afterwards, but we can ignore that for now.Hmm.(Those "here's how we win the game by lynching through these people in this order" plans that WJ is so fond of are harder to come up with than they seem, by the way. If we lynch Monday and she flips killer, I'm fairly sure we win. If she flips otherwise ... ugh.) It's just so incredibly unlikely that an evil!Monday would pick, by chance, a player to frame who just happened to have an amazingly super-powerful role that they hadn't hinted at before and couldn't prove without being allowed to live another night, though. (That's one reason I wanted a mass-claim now -- if lots of people have roles, that logic is different.) People who claim a role when somebody claims a guilty on them are almost always evil for just this reason - it's basic probability. Can somebody read the role-list and reassure me that there's no chance the FM have a Role Cop or something like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiDisaster Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 The town isn't that bad off because one of you and Monday have to be evil. Monday is more likely (IMHO), and yes, there is good chance that we have to lynch you tomorrow, especially if she flips not-a-killer. But even if we do, that means we start day 5 with 6 players and only 1 FM. And yes, I do think you guys may be that braindead especially if you guys were trying to come up with something on the fly that would CI one of you. You yourself keep on saying that you are not that good at mafia, Pete says that this is a gambit that Monday would try. I'm not that good at Mafia, Monday knows what she's doing. If I were her partner I'd be following her lead 100%. Why would Monday try a gambit that is guaranteed to end in failure? IF the two of us were partners and we wanted to, for some reason, set up a situation where one us gets lynched and causes the other to look CI or VPI, we had a perfect way of doing that by me not claiming anything. It avoids all this unnecessary nonsense and keeps the stronger player in the game. So why, oh god why, would we go through all of this nonsense with me claiming a role? What do we gain from it? I'll tell you what, nothing. We gain nothing, it would be completely counter productive, we just threw the game if we are partners. Monday and I CANNOT BE PARTNERS. It is completely illogical. This reminds me so much of an argument I had with SnowStorm in the last Mafia game I played. He didn't believe me, we lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plessiez Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I need to be very careful that the person I pick is trustworthy and not likely to die tonight. You only have to be careful that they are unlikely to die tonight. You don't need them to be trustworthy. In fact, you probably don't want this at all. If Monday is evil and is lynched today, and tomorrow you say "I messaged X" only for X to say "no you didn't", then (unless there's an evil guard) town wins. That is better for town than if X says "yep, KiD's a Hedge Knight". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmit Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 If there was an evil guard, why on earth would they have guarded Monday rather than EP who insinuated that he could use his role again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiDisaster Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 You only have to be careful that they are unlikely to die tonight. You don't need them to be trustworthy. In fact, you probably don't want this at all. If Monday is evil and is lynched today, and tomorrow you say "I messaged X" only for X to say "no you didn't", then (unless there's an evil guard) town wins. That is better for town than if X says "yep, KiD's a Hedge Knight". You're right, for some reason I thought we were closer to LYLO (or whatever it's called where if you mislynch you lose) than we actually are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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